Conversation with "Worlds worse old school hack"!

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sacdetailing

New member
Hello guys, tell you a story real quick, this guy on one of the BMW forums posted a couple threads of his work, i seen that guy wet sands by hand! And polishes with scratch X. You know those that anybody could buy at Wall-Mart for $10-$15 bucks? yeah those things! You know i seen that guy and I just wanted to help out "our" detailer fella and PM him this message: (MY ACTUAL COPY OF MESSAGE!)

""" Detailer help out!

Hey Anderew! My name is Alex and i am a detailer myself. I do want to help you a bit because Ive seen that some of your products and techniques are not professional (plz dont take it to hearth) its like a detailer brother help out. I recommend register in autopia.org and just check out the work of others and what product they are using. You will be polishing faster with better results! And also do not wet sand by hand as Ive seen it in one of your threads you were wet sanding that silver 350z, it will get uneven surface and will be visible no matter how good you will try. wet sand by block is much better and also you can use soft blocks for hard to reach areas and hard blocks for bigger flat surfaces. Hope to hear from you man! i spend more then $2500 on products since beginning of summer!"""

( I have not wrote any comments on his threads yet because i do not want to ruin his business!)



HE WROTE ME THE NEXT MORNING:

wetsanding done by hand without a block.



""""please dont leave your confrontational comments on any of my threads that contain wetsanding.



wetsanding by hand will not leave finger marks when the work is being done with someone as skilled & experienced as me.



if i wetsanded half the hood by hand & then wetsanded the other half with a soft or medium hardness block, if i compounded & polished the complete hood you would not be able to tell which side was sanded by hand & which side was sanded with a block.



stop reading crap off autopia & thinking every tidbit of information on there is completely true.



ive learned the right way, through a boatload of experience that span almost 14 years. i didnt learn from reading autopia articles like many of the new detailers out today. i refuse to sign up because nothing on there would ever be helpfull information for me.



have a good one. let me know if you want to continue chatting about the right& wrong way to wetsand a car.



think about how many cars ive wetsanded through the years lol. its not one or two & its not a few dozen.





autopia for you, autopia not for me. ""





Yeah! you decide yourself! give me some ideas to write hime back i dont want to sound rude but this guy pisses me off! lol
 
first off that guy is a **** to think he's gods gift to earth. Your message to him wasn't bad at all so there really was no need for him to come off the way that he did. I feel bad for any of the people that give him money to work on their cars. He claims that there is nothing on autopia for him?! I mean c'mon everyone can learn something from autopia for sure be it a simple method of cleaning windows that they never thought of down to serious things like wet sanding etc . . . . .



i would simply put him on blast for acting the way that he did. Just because he has supposedly 14 years of experience doesn't mean it's 14 years of good & correct experience. I think he should be glad that somebody didn't blast his thread and is willing to help him out behind the scenes to make sure he is using proper techniques.



BTW he just pissed me off LoL and i don't even know the guy.
 
Let me start by saying I firmly believe in interface padding(block or backingplate) when wet sanding. Obviously, and you clearly understand that finger sanding large areas with pretty hefty grit paper opens the situation for tracer scratches to be left that are wayy to deep to then polish out without compromisin surface.



I would not have wetsand so aggressive on soft paint like that. I don't think going super aggressive on everything is worth on DD vehicle.



Second part is I don't agree with how he responded. True, don't believe everything on internet but his reaction was obvious defensive and he was insulted and "sounded" stubborn. I too don't think your message was too bad, quite polite.



Final I dont think you should be posting and calling this guy out - you(I assume) market yourself as a professional or serious enthuisast but it is not right IMO to call person out on internet because of his innapropriate and poor reaction to you help.



It is childish because you are now acting similar to his reaction just because you didn't get the response you were looking for. Private messages asre intended to be private unless someones health or life are at risk or something very serious like stealing, scamming etc..



No sense in creating drama, obviously poor practices with anyone and anything do catch up to people, especially those on the internet(remember world is watching you)
 
ltebow34 said:
Let me start by saying I firmly believe in interface padding(block or backingplate) when wet sanding. Obviously, and you clearly understand that finger sanding large areas with pretty hefty grit paper opens the situation for tracer scratches to be left that are wayy to deep to then polish out without compromisin surface.



I would not have wetsand so aggressive on soft paint like that. I don't think going super aggressive on everything is worth on DD vehicle.



Second part is I don't agree with how he responded. True, don't believe everything on internet but his reaction was obvious defensive and he was insulted and "sounded" stubborn. I too don't think your message was too bad, quite polite.



Final I dont think you should be posting and calling this guy out - you(I assume) market yourself as a professional or serious enthuisast but it is not right IMO to call person out on internet because of his innapropriate and poor reaction to you help.



It is childish because you are now acting similar to his reaction just because you didn't get the response you were looking for. Private messages asre intended to be private unless someones health or life are at risk or something very serious like stealing, scamming etc..



No sense in creating drama, obviously poor practices with anyone and anything do catch up to people, especially those on the internet(remember world is watching you)
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Hey I know that was wrong but i could not resist that! I dont want people that was fooled "by a pro hack" loose money. And I am not giving that guys name. Just a guy from NY. that's it. He also dont even use paint gauge and on one of his threads he answered to a guys question of how much clear coat he took off and he said: "I do not really know how much clear coat was sanded off...blah blah blah" are you serious? He might sand to metal and not know what just happen. anD DONT BE MAD BUT AM NOT A PRO AT all. am just a weekend warrior, sometimes i do cars for customers but am just enjoying polishing and wet sanding during my free time from night work and school.
 
vtec92civic said:
first off that guy is a **** to think he's gods gift to earth. Your message to him wasn't bad at all so there really was no need for him to come off the way that he did. I feel bad for any of the people that give him money to work on their cars. He claims that there is nothing on autopia for him?! I mean c'mon everyone can learn something from autopia for sure be it a simple method of cleaning windows that they never thought of down to serious things like wet sanding etc . . . . .



i would simply put him on blast for acting the way that he did. Just because he has supposedly 14 years of experience doesn't mean it's 14 years of good & correct experience. I think he should be glad that somebody didn't blast his thread and is willing to help him out behind the scenes to make sure he is using proper techniques.



BTW he just pissed me off LoL and i don't even know the guy.
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Yeah man! So anybody please beware to whom you give your beautiful cars to, he/she might have some experience but its definitely might not be enough! Look at his/her work/example of his previous cars first.
 
i just feel sorry for the situation, period. It might be wrong to call someone out on it but if he wants to be marketed as a true professional then he should be able to back himself in all aspects of that. I don't think people would call him out just for fun . . . . . it would be for a reason and the reason would be they don't want to see someone doing something in which they know is wrong or not proper and sit back and watch him potentially damage someones vehicle.
 
What did you expect? The guy doesn't ask for your help and you tell him he's a hack. A good rule I use and you should probably follow is if someone doesn't ask for your help, don't offer it because they don't want it. Surely you could have seen this train wreck coming.



Finally, look at it this way when you come across a hack, it's more work for you and will make people appreciate your work that much more. You can easily show anyone how it's done by posting regular threads showing quality work.
 
keep_it_clean said:
tell that guy to read some of Mike Phillips articles on all areas of detailing including wet sanding. And if he thinks he know more then Mike Phillips then i would make everyone on the forum aware of the hack he is by posting links to articles on topics he is wrong about and let them members decide.



Articles by Mike Phillips - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
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Would I be a hack if I thought I knew more then Mike Phillips?



OP The fact of matter here is that wetsanding is a very unique art in itself. I personally think it is the highest level of expertise in all detailing aspects. I do feel you are right in some sense of handsanding with out a backing pad or interface pad. Yes it can be done by hand. I don't recomend it, but a great sander knows how to read a panel for high and low spots as well as uneveness or so called a wavy panel. Without seeing this gentlemans work in person you can't judge him. The problem with these forums is that there are so many professionals popping up all over the internet charging x amount dollars because they read what many charge and think this stuff is a game. Its not. Detailing at the highest level is a craft and expertise that goes way beyond any forum. While forums are great for interacting and helping one another there is no way you can learn everything from what is on here. Are you better then this guy because you spent $2500 dollars on chemicals? Let me tell you a little secret Just because you have all the greatest chemicals doesn't make you a professional. What makes a detailer is somebody who can knows how to use the tools he has in every situation. There are so many varibles that come to play in situations like this. Im not trying to sound rude and please don't take it that way. Im just trying to bring real life into an internet dispute. Good Luck on your reply to this guy. Personally I think it would have been better to walk away.
 
Barry Theal said:
Would I be a hack if I thought I knew more then Mike Phillips?
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was not refering to anyone else but the hack. i mean i have done very very little wet sanding and even i know better than to use my hands/fingers has a sanding block cause of uneven pressure being applied. i am sure there are people that know just as much if not more then Mike Phillips but he was the first person i thought of and plus that hack just sounded like he really needs to be out in his place and i would love for him to read Mike's articles and try to against his advise
 
Barry Theal said:
Would I be a hack if I thought I knew more then Mike Phillips?



OP The fact of matter here is that wetsanding is a very unique art in itself. I personally think it is the highest level of expertise in all detailing aspects. I do feel you are right in some sense of handsanding with out a backing pad or interface pad. Yes it can be done by hand. I don't recomend it, but a great sander knows how to read a panel for high and low spots as well as uneveness or so called a wavy panel. Without seeing this gentlemans work in person you can't judge him. The problem with these forums is that there are so many professionals popping up all over the internet charging x amount dollars because they read what many charge and think this stuff is a game. Its not. Detailing at the highest level is a craft and expertise that goes way beyond any forum. While forums are great for interacting and helping one another there is no way you can learn everything from what is on here. Are you better then this guy because you spent $2500 dollars on chemicals? Let me tell you a little secret Just because you have all the greatest chemicals doesn't make you a professional. What makes a detailer is somebody who can knows how to use the tools he has in every situation. There are so many varibles that come to play in situations like this. Im not trying to sound rude and please don't take it that way. Im just trying to bring real life into an internet dispute. Good Luck on your reply to this guy. Personally I think it would have been better to walk away.
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hey hey i wasn't trying to say anything by that! Ohh mannn! but the point that the chemical cost money and not like wall mart products! i wasn't even thinking about that!

I know myself that chemical doesn't make you anything, which am still learning, i was just wanted to kinda help in leading a faster way to the guy which is this site, exactly where i learned myself. I was not trying to say that am all that and this! common Bary u know if i have a question and i called you i didn't even knew the answer. I didn't just started wet sanding the whole thing and say am the best detailer in a world. And i dont even charge my family nothing, if a customer wants me to do something i do it very cheap compare to 98% people here because i know am not a pro to be charging top dollar. Am just practicing and so far its been really great and i learned a lot.
 
The guy does seem stubborn. But you are calling out his work. I don't know anything about his work, but I wet sand by hand all the time.

Mainly deep scratches and door dings. If you don't feather it, you will run into problems. If I am doing a whole panel, then a block is a must.
 
salty said:
The guy does seem stubborn. But you are calling out his work. I don't know anything about his work, but I wet sand by hand all the time.

Mainly deep scratches and door dings. If you don't feather it, you will run into problems. If I am doing a whole panel, then a block is a must.
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I dont want to run into many problems and do something wrong by talking about it but he DOES wet sands full panels, yes i do wet sand by hand scratch/es or small area but hes doing like whole front end of a car! Like hood, fenders bumper. Yes, different directions too. seen it on pics.
 
i noticed that he was sanding all over the place as well in his photo's. If it works for him so be it i guess. Not much any of us can do but cringe.
 
sacdetailing said:
I dont want to run into many problems and do something wrong by talking about it but he DOES wet sands full panels, yes i do wet sand by hand scratch/es or small area but hes doing like whole front end of a car! Like hood, fenders bumper. Yes, different directions too. seen it on pics.
Click to expand...



Again, haven't seen pics, but as Barry said it can be done. I have sanded panels by hand with no problems, but a block is faster and does a better job.



The "same" sanding direction is a bit of a myth, for the very reason that the sanding scratches will be removed. That said, if the sanding is not done evenly, even with a block, it will not be straight.



It becomes a real art when the panel is orange peel free to begin with. No many cars fit into this category. The orange peel is a major guideline to sanding.
 
Kill him with kindness, just reply back and say" Ok man, no problem, have an awesome day" he will probably feel a little bad for over reacting to your first reply. It might be hard to bite your tongue, but it's not worth stressing out over because some douche bag cant hear a brother out.
 
David Fermani said:
Got a link?
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Yeah man i had the link but then i thought everyone will be bashing on that poor dude, so i thought it would be better to remove it. u know i dont want hiim to come here and have "not so good" conversations with us and probably ruin his career.
 
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