Claying

I can maybe count on 1 hand the amount of cars (including brand spanking new ones) that didn't benefit from claying. If new cars are riddled with contaminants, used ones are too. Problems start at the factory mostly because the air there is so polluted. Add rain to their lot full of 1000's of fresh cars and you're paint is screwed. Then, have these same vehicle get delivered (by train, freighter or semi) and it adds even more contaminants that end up marinating on a vehicle's surface for many more months at the dealer before they're sold. If that car doesn't get clayed (at a bare minimum) the paint will continue to decay. It doesn't totally matter what part of the country you're in when a car's paint is damaged at inception.



As far as Decon systems go, they concenetrate on and are used for different contaminants in many cases. They don't do all that much for overspray like clay, but excel in removing environmental problems where clay can be somewhat challenged with. Add them both together with some nice polishing and it doesn't get much better than that.
 
I'll throw my $.02 out there. I do clay cars, but not every car. I agree that every six months every car (that a customer cars about) should be clayed. But it's the customers that are paying for it. I have a package where I do an one-step sealant that I do not clay the car with. But when I break out the polish to do a 2-step or even paint correcting than that's when the clay comes out. I try to upsell claying to my customers and show them the benefits in it, but not all of them are out there looking for an autopian detail. Not saying anyone's wrong here, just giving my opinion
 
ADetailedFinish said:
I try to upsell claying to my customers and show them the benefits in it, but not all of them are out there looking for an autopian detail.
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You're correct, however, why not simply make claying part of your polishing process, regardless if it's a one-step or a two-step ? Just adjust your charges accordingly.



It's like changing your oil without changing the filter. You don't HAVE to change the filter, but it's adventageous to. In fact, any quick-lube shop I've ever been to won't change just your oil without replacing the filter. It's called customer protection. One has to understand that in most cases, the customer doesn't know what steps need to be done, so it's up to you as the expert to include it. I experience this all the time with my IT company, clients just don't know what needs to be done, so it's up to us to simply do it.
 
^^WAS that's a great idea to include claying in my one step process, but that's one of my biggest sellers because of the services and prices, but I feel if I were to clay the vehicle that I should charge more for it. About 25% people wouldn't have a problem, but the economy really isn't helping the detailing industry around me. But I always give customers the option to have a decontamination cleaning done!
 
ADetailedFinish said:
^^WAS that's a great idea to include claying in my one step process, but that's one of my biggest sellers because of the services and prices, but I feel if I were to clay the vehicle that I should charge more for it. About 25% people wouldn't have a problem, but the economy really isn't helping the detailing industry around me. But I always give customers the option to have a decontamination cleaning done!
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I could never not clay a car. Upselling clay is like charging more for a 2 bucket washing method.



It is a very important part of proper detailing.:2thumbs:



Your protection will NOT LAST as long as it should.
 
ADetailedFinish said:
^^WAS that's a great idea to include claying in my one step process, but that's one of my biggest sellers because of the services and prices, but I feel if I were to clay the vehicle that I should charge more for it. About 25% people wouldn't have a problem, but the economy really isn't helping the detailing industry around me. But I always give customers the option to have a decontamination cleaning done!
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I'd add it into my one-step and simply charge a few extra $$$ for it. Even if it's $15 extra... clay is about 30min if you average it out, product is what, $5 ? I can understand if the economy is killing you and you've had to find ways to cope and reduce expenses.... That said, bad economy or not, you aren't finding lube shops changing oil without changing the filter in order to reduce expenses.



tdekany said:
I could never not clay a car. Upselling clay is like charging more for a 2 bucket washing method.



It is a very important part of proper detailing.:2thumbs:



Your protection will NOT LAST as long as it should.
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I don't think claying should be an "upsell". IMO, it's part of the polishing process. It's like saying it cost more to use a yellow pad vs a green pad, because the yellow pad cost $0.50 more to buy. It's like a body shop saying it's going to cost $50 more if you want clear coat sprayed on top of your base coat on your fixed fender. WE are the experts and professionals in the industry, so we should be setting the standard for proper work. Again, the average joe doesn't know what should be done or what steps we're supposed to take, it's up to us to do it properly.
 
I see where you guys are coming from. I'm considering changing my package around... again. I think I will charge an extra fee on the package I have a 1-step polish with so I can clay it... Since we are the professionals we gotta educate the customers and like somebody said before let them feel the difference and not only see it.
 
I see two schools of thought:



1. one detailer is charging for the time used to detail a vehicle. Claying is extra time.

2. another detailer is charging for time they think they believe is needed to properly detail a vehicle.



Who is right: the one paying or the one detailing?
 
Bunky said:
I see two schools of thought:



1. one detailer is charging for the time used to detail a vehicle. Claying is extra time.

2. another detailer is charging for time they think they believe is needed to properly detail a vehicle.



Who is right: the one paying or the one detailing?
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You can't really ask that question. The "right" one is the one doing all the correct steps involved in paint correction, and not willing to make paint correction cheaper by skipping any of those steps.



Again, I go back to the lube shop doing an oil change without changing the filter. The customer may very well pay for that job, and may not even know any better, but that doesn't mean that the lube shop is in the right.



The two schools of thought being discussed here are whether or not claying is a required part of the paint correction process. IMO, it is, even if it isn't "required" to get the desired visual effects. Some folks in this thread have made it clear that they don't believe it's an essential step.
 
ANY time a machine, weather it be Makita or PC touches the paint, claying is an absolute must. It will affect the final outcome without it. If the car is say "not in bad shape contamination wise" it should only add 20 minutes per say.



Again, there is people who do things 1 way that market to 95% of the market, then they're are others who do things the other way and market to 5%.



No wonder we get work from other locals on the normal :)
 
The statement that claying IS a required step when polishing a vehicle does not hold water. Some cars, but not all, would need to be clayed before polishing because of a severe level of contamination. Obviously, in that situation, the contamination may inhibit the polishing process and the bonding of a sealant or wax. A car that has been properly maintained since it was new, usually would not have a severe level of contamination. If you guys are inclined to clay every vehicle, even when it is not required so be it. It is up to you whether you are charging your customers for an unnecessary step that has very little value to them. I know I am in the minority here, but that is fine. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion given the facts.
 
I can't see not claying a vehicle either IF polishing, but it sounds like the OP doesn't polish, just waxes.



I really like using Scott's ONR and clay at the same time method. Its a huge timesaver and works very well. I do not polish without claying either.
 
brwill2005 said:
The statement that claying IS a required step when polishing a vehicle does not hold water. Some cars, but not all, would need to be clayed before polishing because of a severe level of contamination. Obviously, in that situation, the contamination may inhibit the polishing process and the bonding of a sealant or wax. A car that has been properly maintained since it was new, usually would not have a severe level of contamination. If you guys are inclined to clay every vehicle, even when it is not required so be it. It is up to you whether you are charging your customers for an unnecessary step that has very little value to them. I know I am in the minority here, but that is fine. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion given the facts.
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Hi Brad,



Not trying to shoot you down or tell you that you're doing things wrong, but I wonder, why do you say that claying isn't always a necessary step ? Even under the notion that a vehicle has been maintained properly since new, are there not contaminents that can hit the vehicle that can't be removed with traditional washing / QD / waxing ? (I assume that joe customer isn't going to be doing their own claying or polishing). Anything from tree sap to road grim to rail dust (that might not be seen right away by the naked eye) ?



Also, even when a vehicle is brand new "right off the lot", could it not already have been contaminated at the factory ? On the train car ?



I guess what I'm asking is, do you personally not see value in claying prior to polishing ? Or is it simply that you've made a business decision to do so (which is something completely different from person opinion). Not saying either way is wrong, just trying to understand where you're coming from.
 
WAS said:
Hi Brad,



Not trying to shoot you down or tell you that you're doing things wrong, but I wonder, why do you say that claying isn't always a necessary step ? Even under the notion that a vehicle has been maintained properly since new, are there not contaminents that can hit the vehicle that can't be removed with traditional washing / QD / waxing ? (I assume that joe customer isn't going to be doing their own claying or polishing). Anything from tree sap to road grim to rail dust (that might not be seen right away by the naked eye) ?



Also, even when a vehicle is brand new "right off the lot", could it not already have been contaminated at the factory ? On the train car ?



I guess what I'm asking is, do you personally not see value in claying prior to polishing ? Or is it simply that you've made a business decision to do so (which is something completely different from person opinion). Not saying either way is wrong, just trying to understand where you're coming from.
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It is combination of both. I understand that there may be some slight bonded contaminants on paint, that may not wash off, however, usually these types of particles are microscopic and not visible to the naked eye. The only indication that they are even there is some coarseness in the paint. If this was very evident on a customer's car, yes, I have and would recommend to them that the car be clayed. The results I achieve when I polish and do not clay are always excellent and the customer is happy. On the business side of things, people are price conscious about everything these days, including detailing. I feel my services are priced very fairly. My customers are getting excellent value for their money. Adding claying to the my packages by default, would cause me to raise prices and could make the difference between getting the sale and not getting the sale.
 
brwill2005 said:
It is combination of both. I understand that there may be some slight bonded contaminants on paint, that may not wash off, however, usually these types of particles are microscopic and not visible to the naked eye. The only indication that they are even there is some coarseness in the paint. If this was very evident on a customer's car, yes, I have and would recommend to them that the car be clayed. The results I achieve when I polish and do not clay are always excellent and the customer is happy. On the business side of things, people are price conscious about everything these days, including detailing. I feel my services are priced very fairly. My customers are getting excellent value for their money. Adding claying to the my packages by default, would cause me to raise prices and could make the difference between getting the sale and not getting the sale.
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your worried about losing potential customers from charging a small fee for claying? You as a person and your quality should sell the service, not the price.
 
brwill2005 said:
The statement that claying IS a required step when polishing a vehicle does not hold water. Some cars, but not all, would need to be clayed before polishing because of a severe level of contamination. Obviously, in that situation, the contamination may inhibit the polishing process and the bonding of a sealant or wax. A car that has been properly maintained since it was new, usually would not have a severe level of contamination. If you guys are inclined to clay every vehicle, even when it is not required so be it. It is up to you whether you are charging your customers for an unnecessary step that has very little value to them. I know I am in the minority here, but that is fine. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion given the facts.
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While claying might not be a "required" step, I find that it is a beneficial step on 90 % of the cars that I detail. I usually spend 15-20 minutes on claying, but for me that time is regained in the polishing process. Claying makes the polishing much more smooth, with less gumming up and grabbing of the pad, and less pad cleaning. It also makes the polish work more efficiently, as there are no contaminants to remove or "cut through" before the polish is able to do correction to the paint. And when the paint isn't clayed the contaminants that are then polished off gets mixed in with the polish on the pad, again reducing the efficiency, and require that polish is reapplied more often.
 
brwill2005 said:
It is combination of both. I understand that there may be some slight bonded contaminants on paint, that may not wash off, however, usually these types of particles are microscopic and not visible to the naked eye. The only indication that they are even there is some coarseness in the paint. If this was very evident on a customer's car, yes, I have and would recommend to them that the car be clayed. The results I achieve when I polish and do not clay are always excellent and the customer is happy. On the business side of things, people are price conscious about everything these days, including detailing. I feel my services are priced very fairly. My customers are getting excellent value for their money. Adding claying to the my packages by default, would cause me to raise prices and could make the difference between getting the sale and not getting the sale.
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Alrighty, I suppose your train of thought does make logical sense. I suppose I consider claying a vital step, just like changing an oil filter when changing oil, so that's really where we're disagreeing.



Got_Leather said:
your worried about losing potential customers from charging a small fee for claying? You as a person and your quality should sell the service, not the price.
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No, no, no. I'm 100% against making claying a separate charge in the polishing process. Either you clay or you don't. If it takes you that much more time, then build it into your pricing structure, but don't try and upsell / nickel and dime for it. Might as well tell the customer if they want a yellow pad, it'll be $2.50 more, and if they want a CCS pad, it's $3.50 more.
 
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