clayed, polished, & sealed...paint STILL looks like crap

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ev01ut10ndt

New member
Hi everyone,



I'm restoring a 95 accord that was basically washed with water and a squeegee.... :spot . Oxidized paint like you would never imagine. I'm surprised that the paint hasn't failed yet.



My process was claying with pinnacle detailing clay, then polished BY HAND with sonus sfx-1 then sfx-3, and then finally topped with a coat of AIO and KSG.



Heres a pic of before:

P1010094.jpg




After:

1234.jpg




Heres a pic of one side with the sfx-1 polish and the other side without. Try to guess which one...

P1010116.jpg




Anyways, enough of the intro. I'm essentially done detailing this car. The only thing thats bugging me is that there seems to be discoloration of the paint that I cannot pinpoint. When the paint is wet or has a polish that hasn't been wiped off, it looks like liquid paint. THEN when the paint dries or the polish is wiped off and cleaned off, its back to the way it was before. Heres a pic of it right now with a coat of AIO and KSG. Note the gas tank cap and near the wheel wells versus the rest of the body.

P1010159.jpg




Is it an EXTREMELY thin layer of clear thats showing the basecoat? Can I use a filler that can cover that up or can a layer of carnauba wax hide it?



I thought that it went away with the SFX-1, but apparantly not. I removed TONS of oxidized paint already by polishing TWICE by HAND with sfx-1. I would appreciate if you guys could guide me to a product I could get that would help. Thanks!
 
You were working SFX-1 by hand?



I'm no expert, but I think this vehicle needs a PC if not a rotary to bring it back.
 
Okay; even with soft Honda paints, the hand polishing is simply too weak to bring back the paint (if it still has a sufficiently thick film build). You'll definitely need some form of machine polishing to elevate it to a higher cosmetic state.



I've seen a lot of faulty factory paints which were so thin the basecoat was peaking through the flakes (mostly VWs). This particular Honda can be similar as it looks a bit milky on the mentioned areas. Nevertheless, use a machine to get the necessary overall appearance gains - but be careful with that old Honda paint.
 
I you want to do work like that by hand I'd only consider it with stuff that works *especially* well by hand, like polishes from 1Z. Also, I wouldn't use the Klasse twins on any vehicle I couldn't get very, very nice. On a flawed finish, LSPs like "heavy carnaubas" generally look a lot better IMO.



Oh, and along the lines of "it's all relative", whereas you did two passes with your most aggressive product by hand, I recently did a vehicle where I was doing *multiple* passes with my most aggressive product (Hi-Temp Extreme Cut) by *rotary*. And even then I didn't think I was doing all *that* aggressive of a job.



If that were mine and I were working by hand, I'd use 1Z Ultra/Extra Polish, followed by 1Z Paint Polish, topped with Collinite or Blitz. I'd polish panel by panel, and I'd probably spend a long time on each one. I'd set aside a few days to do the whole job.
 
I you want to do work like that by hand I'd only consider it with stuff that works *especially* well by hand, like polishes from 1Z. Also, I wouldn't use the Klasse twins on any vehicle I couldn't get very, very nice. On a flawed finish, LSPs like "heavy carnaubas" generally look a lot better IMO.



Oh, and along the lines of "it's all relative", whereas you did two passes with your most aggressive product by hand, I recently did a vehicle where I was doing *multiple* passes with my most aggressive product (Hi-Temp Extreme Cut) by *rotary*. And even then I didn't think I was doing all *that* aggressive of a job.



If that were mine and I were working by hand, I'd use 1Z Ultra/Extra Polish, followed by 1Z Paint Polish, topped with Collinite or Blitz. I'd polish panel by panel, and I'd probably spend a few hours on each one. I'd set aside a few days to do the whole job.
 
abbeysdad said:
You were working SFX-1 by hand?



I'm no expert, but I think this vehicle needs a PC if not a rotary to bring it back.
Click to expand...





ditto, do you have a pc? f not, i recommend picking one of its flavors up.
 
at the very least maybe get one of those polishing pals so you have something to keep consistant pressure, and as these guys stated more products geared towards hand use...I'd personally eat ramen noodles for a month and buy a pc, or if you can a cyclo. make the money back in a few friends/family details.
 
Well, I guess I could scrounge up the money to get the PC on amazon. The thing is that I don't think I could afford the pads AND polish (ran out of sfx-1 and I got about $200 MAX to work with cuz I already blew $100 on clay, polishes and sealants) What "set" or "kit" would you recommend and which polish would you pair it with?



I already have a bottle of sfx-3 thats 75% full. And AIO and KSG thats around that much left too. Oh, and I got the hand polishing kit for Sonus, so I have a foam hand applicator. Keep in mind that I'm just a 17 year old kid and the cost of a PC is already making my parents furious (lol). My dad washed his company's Caravan TWICE ever since he got it (the second time I did it)...just to give you an idea...



I'm beginning to think this stuff is an additiction...
 
I think I'm gonna get the 7336 at Lowe's then figure out wut pads and polishes are right for my budget. Hopefully, the counterweight difference for the 7336 isnt a problem.
 
Two suggestions for keeping this inexpensive:



-Get the PC at Lowe's and then only buy the pads you really need. That would generally be two orange light cutting pads and three white polishing pads (that's one extra of each as stuff happens). Don't bother with finishing pads, do that by hand. Don't use the pad that comes with the PC for use on vehicles.



-Go easy on your Klasse. It took me quite a few *years* of regular use to use up 25% of the bottles!
 
As a fellow 17 year old, pitch this plan to your parents: (It worked for me)



You will buy the said PC and associated pads/polishes. $200 or not, you'll easily make it back by doing your family's cars. If you don't have a large extended familiy, do your neighbour's cars, familiy friends.



I started off doing just my extended family's cars (~6 or so), by the time I had finished the last of them, I had caught the attention of my neighbour's, and went off to do their's also. If you plan on doing this gig for a bit of spare cash, make sure your work is TOP-NOTCH, so that they can be a showcase of your skill-set, and attract your relative's friends.



My first car was a beat up camary for my aunt. Beleive it or not, I spent 9 hours, and got only $20. Subsequent cars from her friends fetched far more. Since then, my parent's can't say squat about my 'hobby' that makes more money then I spend.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. Tried that with my parents and used the "oh and I'm gonna save so much time as well" statement...their rebuttal: "well, just think about it as its a lot of $$". I'm planning a trip down to Lowe's as soon as possible. WOOT!!



Ok, after doing some searching for several hours, I narrowed it down to the Optimum compounds and polishes. Question: should I get the OP if I already have the sfx-3? Also, should I get the OC or OHC if I am planning to get a "general-use" compound/polish that can vary in intensity?



And as for pads....I'm thinking of getting the p2 pad sampler kit and the propel 5'' backing plate. Or should I get just get the blue and orange pad + backing plate? If I were to get the LC pads, I plan to get an orange and a white + backing plate. Suggestions?
 
Well, just an update...I ordered the OHC and OP along with the orange, white, and backing plate from autogeek. I'll be sure to post results when I start on the Infiniti. And if I have time before school starts, the results of redoing the Honda. Thanks again guys for the valuable advice and the contribution to my shopping spree. :hifive: :waxing:
 
Bence said:
I've seen a lot of faulty factory paints which were so thin the basecoat was peaking through the flakes (mostly VWs). This particular Honda can be similar as it looks a bit milky on the mentioned areas. Nevertheless, use a machine to get the necessary overall appearance gains - but be careful with that old Honda paint.
Click to expand...



How would I approach this paint then? It feels as if the clearcoat is nearly gone (no depth in the dull areas in the picture) and very little depth in the glossier areas. I don't want to polish away whatever is still there and cause paint failure.
 
You appear to be using the polish to 'clean' the paint in your photos.



In the case of your second to last photo above, your paint needs more washing/claying/cleaning if it stil looks dirty before you get to work with the polish.



Consider a more agressive clay and some degreaser/tar-remover on those grimy areas and black spots before breaking out the polisher again.
 
ev01ut10ndt said:
How would I approach this paint then? It feels as if the clearcoat is nearly gone (no depth in the dull areas in the picture) and very little depth in the glossier areas. I don't want to polish away whatever is still there and cause paint failure.
Click to expand...

Bump...I just got the orange and white LC pads, along with OHC and OP and a PC too!! :woot2: Suggestions from the experts are appreciated before I start.
 
ev01ut10ndt said:
How would I approach this paint then? It feels as if the clearcoat is nearly gone (no depth in the dull areas in the picture) and very little depth in the glossier areas. I don't want to polish away whatever is still there and cause paint failure.
Click to expand...



Sorry, but I missed the thread.



"Depth" is an optical term which is not in direct contect with the actual thickness of the paint film build. Depth refers to a detail of the DOI, better known as the Distinction Of (the reflected) Image. When you feel that the reflection is so liquid-like that you can see far away details; well, this is great depth. It comes hand in hand with gloss and wetness.



The only way to know your paint THICKNESS is a coating/paint thickness meter. When the film build is sufficient, you can use any polish/compound on it. When it is thinning a bit, it is more sensitive, so it is wise to use milder polishes and oil-rich, concealing glazes and several coats of heavy carnauba LSPs.
 
Thanks Bence for that information. I really appreciate the help everyone has given.



So I guess my eyes are decieving....I'm going to try polishing it and seeing the results. I just hope that the filmy look is just a severely marred clearcoat that still has sufficient thickness.
 
Just an update: Well, using the orange pads with OHC is doing the job. I wish I had something more aggresive but oh well. The pads are turning really dark, making me think that the paint defect is somehow caused by oxidation.



pad.jpg




I have to make several passes over the same area to get the results. Heres a pic of the left side of the trunk after a couple passes versus the right, which I didnt touch.



P1010201copy.jpg




Sorry for the bad pictures but that was the best I could get late in the afternoon. The scratched areas look like a reflection but thats wut its looking like right now. I'll be sure to post a pic of the whole car when I'm done.



Surely, I wouldn't be able to do this without a PC. Its already enough work as it is.



EDIT: The discoloration returned after the polish dried up....this is really baffling me. I can't really tell how much of an improvement until daytime, but still...what in the world is it?
 
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