City Requires Mobile Detailers to Capture Run Off!

Too bad the detail industry does not have expensive lobbyists in Washington. If we, did this would not even be an issue.
 
Having formerly worked for Florida's Dept. of Env. Protection (in water and legal) and having a GF that currently works for Water in a section responsible for testing stormwater runoff, I asked her some hard questions last night.



The issue to me with these ordinances is not so much that they seek to catch potentially harmful runoff. Frankly, I don't have a problem with the idea. It's going to be brutal for the mobile guys though. The REAL devil is in what to do with the run-off once you have it?



Industrial wastewater is regulated quite strictly here in Florida, and fines from those out of compliance bring in a LOT of money to cover budgetary shortfalls in the agency. But, large industrial installations have treatment options that the mobile detailer simply doesn't. It's not like you can catch your water, filter it, and present the sludge to a facility for disposal. Any such facility would have to be permitted to perform that function, and at currently it simply doesn't exist.



Honestly, I think the proper way to deal with the issue, is for it to be handled like home mechanics changing oil in the driveway. The oil is captured, delivered to the local commercial oil changing place or Autozone/PepBoys/ect. for disposal. They are equipped to handle that load, and permitted to do so. Once the mechanism is in place to handle it, the devil becomes the mechanism for how to capture it and filter it. Industrial installations have very sophisticated gear to do this. Separating oil, grease, and other contaminants from the water in a mobile environment isn't going to be an easy nut to crack. At least not in a cost effective way.



These types of mandates will either drive out mobile businesses completely, or only make them available to people with businesses strong enough to absorb the added expense of putting a capture system in place.



Sticky problem to be sure.
 
What about the pollutants from the plants that manufacture these water reclaimation systems? What about the emissions from the trucks that transport them out of the factory once completed? What about the emissions from the trucks that deliver raw materials to the factory to make these reclaimation systems? The sky is falling!!!
 
weekendwarrior said:
What about the pollutants from the plants that manufacture these water reclaimation systems? What about the emissions from the trucks that transport them out of the factory once completed? What about the emissions from the trucks that deliver raw materials to the factory to make these reclaimation systems? The sky is falling!!!
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Exactly. And knee-jerk, feel-good laws that end up hurting the environment more than the process they are regulating continues to run rampant.



I wish I could remember the name of the magazine, but I recently read a very well done article by a guy that has a Phd in Physics. He calculated the carbon footprint from ore to disposal of a Kenworth semi and a Prius. Being as how I'm bringing this up, you can guess the result. Yup, the Prius (mostly due to the manufacturing and recycling of the batteries over it's life) was more damaging to the environment from cradle to grave than a semi. But all the "Greenies" in their blissful ignorance keep snappin' them up, then give me a glare as I fill up my Hemi at the gas station. I just shake my head, knowing that I'm "greener" than them.



I'd be willing to place money on the same thing happening with this water reclamation crap. All the fossil fuels being wasted to pump and transport... boggles the mind, really.
 
So it's ok for the general population to wash their car in their driveway, but mobile detailers are basically the only ones that cant. Sounds real good for brick and morter car washes where this would be a lot easier to enforce, hmm. Maybe the answer is a small matt that can be put under a panel at a time, and using something like ONR. If you use ONR you only need to capture a gallon or two. The gov't should encourage business, not make it prohibitively hard to do.
 
Yeah, often times, people obcessed with a cause, as well as our government officials, don't comprehend the theory of "cause and effect". What often sounds like a good idea is just taken and run with, without thoroughly analyzing EVERY area that will be effected by said cause.



I love when the government announces they are going to "save" money by cutting out the purchasing of some item (a military jet for instance), or some service. After the service gets cut out, they then discover thousands of people are suddenly unemployed because their livelihoods were tied to that item or service. So, now the government has to pay all of those thousands of people unemployment and other things, thereby negating a lot, if not all of the "savings".



The same can be said for a lot of these environmental causes. Most of the activists I talk to can't see the forest for the trees so to speak. After talking to most of them for just a few minutes, I find that I actually live a "greener" life than them, just by utilizing basic common sense and consideration for other people, and the environment (not being wasteful) I live in.



Oh well, I guess that's what's so great about this country (for now anyways) that we don't have to all agree on issues like this, and can debate freely...although a lot of these activists don't seem to agree with me on this point.
 
If we didn't wash our cars, wouldn't the rain cause what ever is on the cars to end up on roads anyway? The answer is to find environmentally friendly products, as opposed to making ridiculous laws that are not easily enforceable and detrimental to business.
 
Slickery said:
If we didn't wash our cars, wouldn't the rain cause what ever is on the cars to end up on roads anyway? The answer is to find environmentally friendly products, as opposed to making ridiculous laws that are not easily enforceable and detrimental to business.
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That's crazy talk. I want my local police chasing down evil car washers, instead of tracking down murderers and rapists.:think2
 
Slickery said:
If we didn't wash our cars, wouldn't the rain cause what ever is on the cars to end up on roads anyway?
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If the rain degreased engines and melted off brake dust, detailing would be a lot less necessary...
 
SCoach said:
If the rain degreased engines and melted off brake dust, detailing would be a lot less necessary...
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The EPA makes an exception for the largest group of people who "offend", IE everyone except professional detailers, lol. If there is a grease problem on an engine, it's coming from something that is leaking and more then likely will drop fluids on the ground regardless if it's washed or not. And I'm sure rain and wind has been responsible for plenty of brake dust hitting the ground,
 
Slickery said:
The EPA makes an exception for the largest group of people who "offend", IE everyone except professional detailers, lol. If there is a grease problem on an engine, it's coming from something that is leaking and more then likely will drop fluids on the ground regardless if it's washed or not. And I'm sure rain and wind has been responsible for plenty of brake dust hitting the ground,
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Then that evil rain and wind should be *regulated*, now! In a way that'll make everyone sing kumbayah and feel good! How could we let this "wind" and this "rain" pollute our environment! Take action, now! (who cares if the numbers don't add up... we've never cared before.)
 
One cool thing about our neighborhood is we have a filter in our sewer that the association of homes pays to clean once a year. It's a combination filter material and river rock. It not only catches the stuff from all us bad people who wash our cars in the driveway, but also fertilizers and pesticides. Maybe all sewer systems should have this model, instead of making unenforceable laws. We can pay for it with monopobama money.
 
This commentary is exactly why the Regulators are doing what they are doing.



When I give testimony in front of the Regulators, I should just print these threads ... it's like talking about an industry that advocates cheating on taxes. Or an industry that complains about taxes, because they should not pay, or pay as much as another industry.



The States are regulating Home Washes, get with current events.



For all those that post to the contrary, instead of working on solutions ... good bye from this industry ... not sure where you will end up, but it will not be here.



-jim
 
Relaited said:
This commentary is exactly why the Regulators are doing what they are doing.



When I give testimony in front of the Regulators, I should just print these threads ... it's like talking about an industry that advocates cheating on taxes. Or an industry that complains about taxes, because they should not pay, or pay as much as another industry.



The States are regulating Home Washes, get with current events.



For all those that post to the contrary, instead of working on solutions ... good bye from this industry ... not sure where you will end up, but it will not be here.



-jim
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I think the type detailing you do is much different than what the typical autopia pro does. Don't take this the wrong way, but your model (I glanced at the website on your profile), appears to be like "MacDonald's". What I mean by this, is you seem have a standard process, that you repeat on a lot of cars, every day at a location (kind of like how MacDonald's churns out identical Big Macs all day).



Contrast that with the typical autopia pro. Most of us work on 1 car for 1 to 2 days (if not longer) at a time. We'll wash the car initially (you'd be surprised how many of us use rinseless washes as our primary wash method), then spend hours (many times well over 6 hours) just polishing and perfecting, in addition to interior work, and other items. We tailor the detail to the car...we don't try to churn out the same process car after car, as it isn't feasable for this type of detailing.



Your company probably washes hundreds of cars a week, versus the average autopia pro that may wash 3-5 at best. What I am getting at is that most detailers at this site aren't blowing through thousands of gallons of water per week as you seem to think. Sure...everyone, regardless of how much water they use needs to be respectful of the environment, as well as responsible. However, a lot of what I see the "water regulators" preaching doesn't make sense (from a common sense standpoint). The "fix" they are preaching in turn causes more polution in other areas. It's like taking 2 dollar bills out of your left pocket and moving them to your right pocket. The dollar bills are no longer in your left pocket, but they are still in your pants somewhere. Additonally, most of them seem to just try to make those who don't agree look evil, and don't present actual facts...Almost like it's a religion for them.



Good for you for being passionate about this issue (either you are truly passionate, or you are motivated a large financial stake in this type "detailing"???).
 
The question is not who washes their car in the driveway, it's who doesn't. As for your original post, that has been CA law for a long long time, as I'm sure you know as you testify in this matter. Why Oxnard is finally recognizing it now is a little funny. Maybe they thought it was joke of a law for the last decade, but now want to take part in it.
 
wow, weekend warrior. you PM'd me, so I gave you an answer ... but by your post here, it would appear to me that you are a weekender, and not a professional.



You are making my point that most in this industry are technicians, not business people. 2 days on a detail ... 6 hours perfecting paint ... holy cow, that is embarrassing from my point of view.



And, let's say I accept your logic, that most autopians are like you ... then in aggregate, you are all an issue. Law of big numbers



You will see, the regulators will fix this as I agree this is the dominant view of those here. That's why I share these threads with the regulators, so they can get a sense of what the industry really thinks.



Thanks for making my point.



I am passionate, and I am motivated by making money. That’s why I call it Water $mart Eco Detailing. I think it is a great model. When I sit 100 feet from the entrance of a Nordstrom’s … there is no way I could spend 2 days on that $80,000 Mercedes 2 years old. We spend about an hour with a team of 2 for $179 … thank you very much. Do you get over $1,200 for your 2 days of effort? Customers love the quality and convenience.



Don’t be mislead by threads on a forum as the best practices my friend … be open to learning new things.



Invitation still open to contact me. Honestly, i think you are well intentioned.



-jim



PS Autopians … is this true?
 
Relaited, Im just going to be blunt about things...



You push this water $mart, and reclamation mat thing way too hard. So hard to the point that I think your pockets may be affected by the sales, or lack there of of water mats, waterless wash products, etc.



Its one thing to recommend it and share your opinion. But to be a smart *** in every thread, threads which arent yours or have nothing to do with eco detailing, is just a little bit annoying.



Forum sponsors dont even push their products the way you do. Its almost to the point of spam. Most of the time your responses arent even answering a questions. Just a sly remark about how wasteful we are and how your water $mart water mats and waterless wash is the RIGHT way and the ONLY way.



Get off your high horse. You can give advice and recommendations without the soap box.



I appreciate others here who have mentioned being more eco friendly, but they didnt go about it the way you do. They brought intelligent discussions to the table, not just a one sided "do it my way or no way at all" argument.





You are making my point that most in this industry are technicians, not business people. 2 days on a detail ... 6 hours perfecting paint ... holy cow, that is embarrassing from my point of view.
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I think your really on the wrong site man. You should go look for a volume car washing forum. Look for others that do the same type of work that you do, and preach to them. I think weekendwarrior already explained the difference between those doing car washes and those actually detailing.



Customers love the quality and convenience.
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Im sure they do. But theres also another set of customers that want a little bit more attention paid to the finer details. Thats where someone like an "autopian" would come in.



You have your niche. Thats good, and im glad your making money. Just stop the preaching.
 
Dsoto87 said:
Relaited, Im just going to be blunt about things...



You push this water , and reclamation mat thing way too hard. So hard to the point that I think your pockets may be affected by the sales, or lack there of of water mats, waterless wash products, etc.



Its one thing to recommend it and share your opinion. But to be a smart *** in every thread, threads which arent yours or have nothing to do with eco detailing, is just a little bit annoying.



Forum sponsors dont even push their products the way you do. Its almost to the point of spam. Most of the time your responses arent even answering a questions. Just a sly remark about how wasteful we are and how your water water mats and waterless wash is the RIGHT way and the ONLY way.



Get off your high horse. You can give advice and recommendations without the soap box.



I appreciate others here who have mentioned being more eco friendly, but they didnt go about it the way you do. They brought intelligent discussions to the table, not just a one sided "do it my way or no way at all" argument.







I think your really on the wrong site man. You should go look for a volume car washing forum. Look for others that do the same type of work that you do, and preach to them. I think weekendwarrior already explained the difference between those doing car washes and those actually detailing.





Im sure they do. But theres also another set of customers that want a little bit more attention paid to the finer details. Thats where someone like an "autopian" would come in.



You have your niche. Thats good, and im glad your making money. Just stop the preaching.
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You just saved me a lot of typing. My sentiments exactly.
 
[quote name='Relaited']You are making my point that most in this industry are technicians, not business people. 2 days on a detail ... 6 hours perfecting paint ... holy cow, that is embarrassing from my point of view.





I am passionate, and I am motivated by making money. That’s why I call it Water $mart Eco Detailing. I think it is a great model. When I sit 100 feet from the entrance of a Nordstrom’s … there is no way I could spend 2 days on that $80,000 Mercedes 2 years old. We spend about an hour with a team of 2 for $179 … thank you very much. Do you get over $1,200 for your 2 days of effort? Customers love the quality and convenience.
Regarding the first comment above, you find it embarrasing that we spend so long working on a car. Conversely, I would probably be embarrased by presenting to my clients what you refer to as a "detail". Additionally, I'd probably be fired by my client, and then flamed on sites like this by them for being a hack. There's no way a team of 2 could spend only an hour on a car and perfect it. That's the difference...your clients seem to want Big Macs through a drive through window (convenience), and our clients want Morton's and are willing to wait for the better quality.



Regarding the second comment...again, your passion is to be commended. But like a religious zealot, there is a fine line between being passionate, and believing only you are right, and pushing your idea on everyone as the only truth. What ends up happening a lot of times is that the over zealousness turns a lot of people off to your idea, simply by the way you come across. See, you have managed to come to this site, and turn the majority of people off to your ideas, just because of the way you interact.



If you want to truly see the time involved in what most autopia pros do, go glance at the "Click and Brag" section. Most detail the steps involved, and time that goes into the detail.



Regarding pricing, most autopian pros charge between $50-$80 hour for a corrective detail. If it takes 2 days, then do the math. You seem to be passionate about being water smart and making money. Most of us are passionate about making the car as perfect as we can, and making money.
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weekendwarrior said:
You seem to be passionate about being water smart and making money. Most of us are passionate about making the car as perfect as we can, and making money.
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My question, as a non-professional and someone who has environmental concerns, is are the two mutually exclusive? Is it feasible to have the goals of making the car look as good as possible, and being water smart?



I prefer not to get into the other argument. I'll leave that to you passionate pros... :)
 
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