Charging by the hour for detailing is..........

RaskyR1 said:
All my packages are a set price. I based my pricing on my average times and $60/hr. I do list wet sanding at $60/hr, but I would give a solid figure upon seeing the car and knowing more what the owners expectations are.
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Assuming that your coating prices aren't based on hourly only? Coating set price + correction


ShaneB said:
Just to chime in on the whole dealership and insurance companies "negotiating" for you to get a better price... Having worked in a dealership body shop I know full well that all insurance companies have in mind is their bottom line. The "negotiating" is only so much as the agent and service writer going back and forth on how corners can be cut to reduce costs. More often than not the body repair guys would have to do repairs that they know full well aren't "right" but good enough because the insurance company simply won't pay to do it right. Weather or not they want to do it right is not a factor. The insurance agent negotiates lower prices by finding cheaper parts/labor and you absolutely get what's paid for. There was one instance where a car came into the body shop, fairly new only a couple thousand on the odometer, needed a new engine, insurance agent made them get a used engine with over 20k miles on it already. All because it was cheaper. So some poor person had a 2000 mile car with an engine with over 20k miles on it. I would NEVER EVER trust an insurance agent to negotiate for me simply because they don't care about anything more than their bottom line.
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I very much disagree with your opinion on how the insurance/body shop game is played and insurance companies not wanting to do things right. Having been an Insurance Adjuster for the last 10 years, I can honestly say that insurance companies don't negotiate to cut corners, and they certainly don't force shops to things the wrong way. Their sole job is to negotiate an agreed price and interpret the policy that the customer chose. And pretty much every policy out there calls for cost alternative parts (i.e. used/aftermarket/reconditioned). I don't think it's fair to blame the insurance company for using these parts if the customer's policy allows for it. If a shop doesn't have strong negotiation skills, then unfortunately for them they may not be given top dollar to repair a vehicle (labor time wise), but on the other hand the same thing goes for the Adjuster's skills too. I personally prided myself for being able to work with shops to arrive at a fair settlement, but there were still shops that constantly pushed the envelope. Something like a basic 2 hour dent at any other shop was 10 hours with them. We would end up agreeing on 7 hours so they still were getting 5 more hours than any other shops. Why you ask? Because at the end of the day I did what I was paid to do and that was negotiate an agreed fair price. If more shops knew what they were doing they wouldn't complain like they constantly do about not getting enough from insurance companies.
 
David Fermani said:
I very much disagree with your opinion on how the insurance/body shop game is played and insurance companies not wanting to do things right. Having been an Insurance Adjuster for the last 10 years, I can honestly say that insurance companies don't negotiate to cut corners, and they certainly don't force shops to things the wrong way. Their sole job is to negotiate an agreed price and interpret the policy that the customer chose. And pretty much every policy out there calls for cost alternative parts (i.e. used/aftermarket/reconditioned). I don't think it's fair to blame the insurance company for using these parts if the customer's policy allows for it. If a shop doesn't have strong negotiation skills, then unfortunately for them they may not be given top dollar to repair a vehicle (labor time wise), but on the other hand the same thing goes for the Adjuster's skills too. I personally prided myself for being able to work with shops to arrive at a fair settlement, but there were still shops that constantly pushed the envelope. Something like a basic 2 hour dent at any other shop was 10 hours with them. We would end up agreeing on 7 hours so they still were getting 5 more hours than any other shops. Why you ask? Because at the end of the day I did what I was paid to do and that was negotiate an agreed fair price. If more shops knew what they were doing they wouldn't complain like they constantly do about not getting enough from insurance companies.
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Interesting to hear the opposite side of the story. I listened to the body repair guys xxxxx about the insurance adjusters so my opinion was one sided... guess i was wrong
 
Well depends how you look at it. Up here in Toronto, i've never seen a mechanic charge less than $65/hour....and that is considered cheap. Body shops are $75+ hour.
I personally charge by the hour, but, I've done this for so long that I already know how long this car will take, and how long that car will take. So if a customer calls me about polishing a honda civic, I know exactly how long that car is going to take to polish and charge accordingly. I never really understood how detailers charge a flat rate to polish a car and stay profitable. A Honda S2000 is a car, and a Mercedes S600 is car. One is double the size.

I also work on a lot of show cars, and custom rods which is STRICTLY by the hour and based on customer expectations. I usually give a written estimate on what I think the cost will be and here in Ontario, you are legally allowed a buffer of 10%. So if I give a quote for $1200, I can't come back after and charge $1800 because there was "more work involved".

So in other words, I found an hourly rate that I feel my time and skill are worth, and base all my jobs on that rate.
 
I think my insurance company wants to fix my car properly, so I am happy but at the lowest cost to them. I am fine with that as long as I can choose the shop and oem parts. If they can negotiate a better deal, I hope it will keep my rates lower

ShaneB said:
Interesting to hear the opposite side of the story. I listened to the body repair guys xxxxx about the insurance adjusters so my opinion was one sided... guess i was wrong
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I'm only seasonal-part time, it's my play money and I love to do it, so I charge by the hour. My reasoning is, no 2 jobs are alike, you can have 2 cars from the same year, same color, same make and model with one somewhat well maintained with regular washes and the other neglected both inside and out. I can't charge the same pkg price for both these vehicles. The neglected vehicle may take an extra 3 hours then the somewhat well maintained vehicle. I get so many requests for quotes via FB, email and phone without seeing the car or crappy pics. I will tell them over and over need to see the car, does a contractor quote a price for a new kitchen over the phone? I've got burned in the past when I first started with quotes and then the job takes an extra 2-3 hours. So I tell everyone upfront I charge by the hour for as long as it takes me, one stain may take an extra 20mins to get out or one panel that you didn't tell me was resprayed when we went over the inspection may take an extra 20mins to cut or finish down. I give them a ball park and leave the door open for leeway in case there is more work involved.

I had a guy requesting a quote via FB on a 12 yr old Honda Civic white in color that has not been waxed in 12 yrs and the paint looks very dry wanting a "restoration" on the exterior and interior. Repeatedly tell him I need to see the car, he sends pics, car looks trashed, told him ball park 500-600, he says I was thinking 150, I said go to the local car wash.
 
IMHO
If you're going to charge by the hour, you should give a "will not exceed" amount in the estimate.
 
Meticulous said:
I had a guy requesting a quote via FB on a 12 yr old Honda Civic white in color that has not been waxed in 12 yrs and the paint looks very dry wanting a "restoration" on the exterior and interior. Repeatedly tell him I need to see the car, he sends pics, car looks trashed, told him ball park 500-600, he says I was thinking 150, I said go to the local car wash.
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Perfect !!!
 
at first I was thinking about this and was shocked to think you would charge a flat rate...

then I got to thinking about the other side....THE VALUE driven side.

I have my packages set at average rates for average cars with a range, and the coatings at a flat rate per car. Simplifies everything as a two step correction, or a three step correction (read as not full corrections chasing EVERY single defect) are typically done within 30-40 min from the previous car.

for example a m3 might take 8 hours one time, 9 hours the next, and 7.5 the next. Factors included are dirtier wheels, more trim to tape off, already burned edges to tape off, heavier contamination to remove prior to correction. The two steps typically take the same amount of time as 4 left to right, 4 up and down passes with the polisher at a given speed will always yield the same timing. If I were to go back over a panel 2 or 3 times with a mild compound, that adds time, and is no longer a 2 step correction, but a 3 or 4 step correction in which case a more aggressive approach is made with something like M100, then D300, then HD polish instead of fg400 then SPF.s

Coating costs are flat because you use the same amount per m3, the only thing that changes is the amount of layers if you layer a coating, for which you charge additional flat rate.

However, if you do "full corrections" there is no way you can get two M3's side by side and finish the exact same time, or close to it, time after time after time. Harder clear, deeper damage, lots of scratches vs simple swirl marks all play a factor. I have personally done two jet black M3's in the same week and one was harder than the other, and the softer one took forever to find a combination that would finish down properly. I tried the same combo as the previous car, but it wasnt working the same, which lead to more time involved and had I charged a package rate, my hourly would have been cut in half. Of course, a phone call to the client with an email agreement for a price adjustment was needed before charging a higher price. I think everyone has been there, I know I get into it a lot. Did an M5 a few years back...estimated 20 hours, but the rock hard clear took me 33 hours to correct, but I set a max amount I would charge at 1200. My hourly went from 60 to 36/hr...I could have booked two other simpler jobs in those 13 hours and made another 1000 or so...
 
When I was younger I pegged myself at $50/h, and would quote a job accordingly... I would figure out how long it should take, multiply that, and come up with $200 for an inside & out clean with a coat of wax. Doesn't sound like much when I put it that way, but essentially it looks new again barring any serious paint damage.

Now that I have a more profitable business doing both Glass & Detailing, I don't think that way anymore... I see a job that is worth $200, I charge $200, and it takes what it takes. I can usually get those done in 2-2.5 hours, but sometimes on 'harder than expected' interiors it can take 3-3.5 hours.

When it comes to paint correction, I charge by the job... I always do the basic $200 detail, and add on a step of compounding, or for black and softer paints, a two-step compound. Those usually take me another hour or so, so those would start probably around $300.

$100/h is pretty good for basic detailing. I hope to get into the higher end stuff once people learn we exist.
 
Meticulous said:
I'm only seasonal-part time, it's my play money and I love to do it, so I charge by the hour. My reasoning is, no 2 jobs are alike, you can have 2 cars from the same year, same color, same make and model with one somewhat well maintained with regular washes and the other neglected both inside and out. I can't charge the same pkg price for both these vehicles. The neglected vehicle may take an extra 3 hours then the somewhat well maintained vehicle. I get so many requests for quotes via FB, email and phone without seeing the car or crappy pics. I will tell them over and over need to see the car, does a contractor quote a price for a new kitchen over the phone? I've got burned in the past when I first started with quotes and then the job takes an extra 2-3 hours. So I tell everyone upfront I charge by the hour for as long as it takes me, one stain may take an extra 20mins to get out or one panel that you didn't tell me was resprayed when we went over the inspection may take an extra 20mins to cut or finish down. I give them a ball park and leave the door open for leeway in case there is more work involved.
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I would agree that no 2 cars are identical, but that only really matters when you're doing a full correction. None the less, you should be able to determine how many hours it's going to take you to do a 1 step, 2 step and/or interior detail. And like others mentioned, it's smart to give your client a price range(not set pricing) that will handle any slight variables that might get overlooked.
 
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