Charging by the hour for detailing is..........

David Fermani

David Fermani

Forza Auto Salon
Alright, I hope this topic doesn't go spiraling downhill, but I just wanted to say that I think charging by the hour for a standard detailing service (paint correction/interior detailing/overspray removal, etc) is ludicrous. We as professionals should have a good understanding of what it takes and how long it takes to complete a job. Charging by the hour I feel makes you look like you don't know what you're doing. Sorry.

If you're not certain, then give a price range. I usually do. Or put in a clause that it will cost up to XXXX, unless this occurs.

With the latest tools and products, it's dramatically decreased the amount of time we need to spend working on cars, yet some are still in the dark ages charging hourly. To me, that means they've just short changed themselves on income potential. For example, something that took 30 hours to do 5 years ago now takes 20 hours. That means the customer just got a 10 hour discount for the same service just because you've decided to stay up with the latest & greatest to make things quicker and better.

I also feel that the prices people list for their hourly rate scares people away. I mean last time I checked, top tiered certified auto mechanics, body men, welders, frame and suspension techs (etc) don't typically make north of $30/hr, yet some detailers feel that $60-90+ per hour is consummate with what they do? The overhead, initial and ongoing training (and I'm sorry if this offends) skill level involved with detailing is minimal compared to ANY other trade in the automotive industry, yet we've managed to be able to charge more than everyone else for our services? Hey, nothing like getting the most you can, but I just think the way some go about doing it isn't all that swift.
 
I don't disagree with what you wrote. As far a mechanics go, my stealer ship for my Infiniti charges 125 bucks an hour. Not sure what the techs get. But I do know that they charge buy the cHilton book and it never takes that long. Quick story, I was quoted 1450 to have a Srs sensor and processor (computer box) changed for the airbag system. It is a 2002. I have an extended warranty through geico. They reserve the right to supply factory parts ( not aftermarket) if they cannot agree on parts coats.

The warranty department at geico negotiated a much Lowe price. Like 400 bucks cheaper on the whole job parts and labor. So are We are getting ripped off or do they need the profit to run their business. That is the problem.
 
JSFM35X -

Yeah, historically, Dealerships charge by the Flat Rate book, the mechanics try to do it quicker, so they can get more work and get their piece of the pie at whatever size it is..

What no one ever talks about is who decided these people would be the ones to make up the book in the first place ? What makes them the authority on how long it takes to all this work ?

If mechanics have found ways to do a job quicker and better, not sacrificing anything, have the number of hours in this Flat Rate book changed to less hours now, so we the consumers are not jacked nearly as bad ?

This stuff has always made me crazy..
Dan F
 
David Fermani said:
Alright, I hope this topic doesn't go spiraling downhill, but I just wanted to say that I think charging by the hour for a standard detailing service (paint correction/interior detailing/overspray removal, etc) is ludicrous. We as professionals should have a good understanding of what it takes and how long it takes to complete a job. Charging by the hour I feel makes you look like you don't know what you're doing. Sorry.

If you're not certain, then give a price range. I usually do. Or put in a clause that it will cost up to XXXX, unless this occurs.

With the latest tools and products, it's dramatically decreased the amount of time we need to spend working on cars, yet some are still in the dark ages charging hourly. To me, that means they've just short changed themselves on income potential. For example, something that took 30 hours to do 5 years ago now takes 20 hours. That means the customer just got a 10 hour discount for the same service just because you've decided to stay up with the latest & greatest to make things quicker and better.

I also feel that the prices people list for their hourly rate scares people away. I mean last time I checked, top tiered certified auto mechanics, body men, welders, frame and suspension techs (etc) don't typically make north of $30/hr, yet some detailers feel that $60-90+ per hour is consummate with what they do? The overhead, initial and ongoing training (and I'm sorry if this offends) skill level involved with detailing is minimal compared to ANY other trade in the automotive industry, yet we've managed to be able to charge more than everyone else for our services? Hey, nothing like getting the most you can, but I just think the way some go about doing it isn't all that swift.
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You must not have been to mechanics shop or body shop in the last decade. $30 an hour was the norm in the 90's not today more like $75-$100 an hour. And that's here in Oklahoma one of the cheapest places to live in the US.
 
conquistador said:
You must not have been to mechanics shop or body shop in the last decade. $30 an hour was the norm in the 90's not today more like $75-$100 an hour. And that's here in Oklahoma one of the cheapest places to live in the US.
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What the Dealer charges and the Mechanics make are not comparable

Still wanting to know what you'd charge to do my mini van interior. Its not that bad other then a stain or two here and there that have me a bit concerned

Thx!!
 
JSFM35X said:
I don't disagree with what you wrote. As far a mechanics go, my stealer ship for my Infiniti charges 125 bucks an hour. Not sure what the techs get. But I do know that they charge buy the cHilton book and it never takes that long. Quick story, I was quoted 1450 to have a Srs sensor and processor (computer box) changed for the airbag system. It is a 2002. I have an extended warranty through geico. They reserve the right to supply factory parts ( not aftermarket) if they cannot agree on parts coats.

The warranty department at geico negotiated a much Lowe price. Like 400 bucks cheaper on the whole job parts and labor. So are We are getting ripped off or do they need the profit to run their business. That is the problem.
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I've never heard of Geico (or any other auto insurer) giving warranties? That is unless the car was involved in an accident. That makes sense though seeing that it's the SRS equipment you're referring to. And as far as parts.....it's usually the opposite. They reserve the right to use aftermarket/used if OEM are not cost effective.
As far as them negotiating with the dealer, that's pretty typical actually. Dealer service depts are typically way overpriced labor wise. They tend to not recognize overlapping operations and charge 1-2 times what warranty times are for their labor. Insurance companies tend to go off of the labor times that Mitchell designates which can fluctuate from the dealer database.


Stokdgs said:
What no one ever talks about is who decided these people would be the ones to make up the book in the first place ? What makes them the authority on how long it takes to all this work ?

If mechanics have found ways to do a job quicker and better, not sacrificing anything, have the number of hours in this Flat Rate book changed to less hours now, so we the consumers are not jacked nearly as bad ?
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Time studies are done by independent companies that all the OEMs and Insurance companies follow/agree to. The biggest fluctuation is when a totally new car comes out and times haven't been totally ironed out. Every company's times are actually pretty different from one another which can throw another monkey wrench into things.

Trouble said:
Hey David,

How much you charge to clean my uphoulstery?

Regards,

08 Honda Odyssey
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I'd love to see the answer from some of these hourly detailers!! They'd probably charge $80 per hour and it would take them 8 hours....:rofl
We typically charge between $175-$250 for an interior on a minivan. When would you like to have it done? :headspin


conquistador said:
You must not have been to mechanics shop or body shop in the last decade. $30 an hour was the norm in the 90's not today more like $75-$100 an hour. And that's here in Oklahoma one of the cheapest places to live in the US.
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Actually, I've been going in and out of body shops and service departments for the last 20 years. I'm pretty familiar with their posted labor rates. But keep in mind that my comment you're referring to was regards to the technician's pay, not the shop's rate. HUGE DIFFERENCE!! But, because you mentioned it, I'd have to say that most body shop's posted labor rates are between $40-50 per hour and mechanical garages are between $65 (independent) and $100 (dealer). But, I've been to many high end dealers that charged $150/hr+.

What's even more disconnected is how body shop's labor rates fluctuate from a service dept's rates. Many times by as much as a 1/3. The shop's overhead and labor is pretty much the same in both depts too. And speaking of overhead in regards to my original post........detail shop's overhead is a ton less than a body shop's and/or mechanical garage's, yet detailers have the misconception of needing to charge $60-90+ for their labor. Like their time is more valuable than people in other auto repair fields? And mobile detailer's overhead is even less expensive!
 
I have never charged by the hour and never will..

There may be a layer up there where Clients will be ok with a Detailer charging $60/hour, but we still don't know how many hours they are charging for, do we ?

I DO know how long it takes to do my perfect, not 1 speck of dirt inside or out, you can read a book in the paintwork, Detail, and I'm ok with this..

Some Clients in the past have asked me how much an hour I charge and I always tell them I dont charge by the hour..
Dan F
 
Exactly Dan! Not like detailers have book times they follow for what they're doing. So how can they charge by the hour then? Typically, repair shops that charge by the hour know exactly how many hours it's going to take them to base the final amount on up front. The only time they do time & materials is when it's a completely 1 off repair and they don't know what it will take to complete. But, OTOH, detailers worth 2 xxxxts should have a pretty good notion of how many hours a detail is going to take them.
 
Factory repair shops ("The Dealer") charge by the hour and it's a big scam. How do I know? Because I worked flat rate for 7 years and became intimately familiar with the system. Basically, there are 2 sets of "times".

1. Cash time: this is an independent book time. This is what's called the gravy train. This is what you pay if you have no warranty and are paying by the hour for menu type or R & R repairs. This is how long it takes to get the job done following all factory procedures and precautions. This is an independently decided time by Chilton's, Mitchell, or whoever.

It take NO mechanic who has a clue "cash time" to do a job. In fact, it often takes only a fraction of that time.

2. Warranty time: this is where the tech gets screwed. When a mechanical repair is warranty, the amount of time the tech gets paid is drastically reduced. While Mitchell's may pay 21 hours to put a short block in an E350, Ford's "warranty time" (decided by Ford - surprise!) may only be 9 hours. These numbers are off the top of my head and close to 20 years old (may not be 100% accurate) - but you get the idea.

...So, basically, the "cash time" / cash paying customer is OVERPAYING to pay for the cheap warranty time. The tech must eat / live - so, he (the tech) stacks up as much cash work as possible to cover the warranty work he HAS to do that may or may not be profitable (it's always a gamble how much "time" you will get paid doing warranty work).

Independent shops use "cash time" - because they ussually aren't doing warranty work. Unless, it's a 3rd party warranty (these are most loathsome; because most of these companies are as cheap as cheap comes).

I think hourly detailing work is a bad idea. You should be able to price the whole job. Mechanical work that is done "hourly", is usually some type of diagnostic or fabrication work. If a detailer thinks he spends time fabricating or diagnosing paint, he should look at a wreck that is towed into a body shop before and after its fixed and see what goes into that repair. Detailing work is all cash. Price the job & be done with it.
 
I don't think they're comparable being one is a luxury and the other is needed to actually drive from point A to point B. The value of a clean interior is subjective, but the value of a running vehicle is not (if it's your primary mode of transportation).

Value does not correlate to price. It's easy for a customer to see the difference with a detail than with their vehicle being fixed, the "satisfaction" of having a running car only latest so long before it's normal. A detail is an instant reward, that if you can afford it, and value it, I don't see a reason for detailers making $90-100/hr if their market will pay it.

There is a place for detailing at all price levels because it's subjective and a luxury. Auto repair is either fixed or not, unless it's a luxury like a performance shop, then I think those prices would be more comparable due to the same market of people with large disposable incomes.
 
Swanicyouth said:
I think hourly detailing work is a bad idea. You should be able to price the whole job. Mechanical work that is done "hourly", is usually some type of diagnostic or fabrication work. If a detailer thinks he spends time fabricating or diagnosing paint, he should look at a wreck that is towed into a body shop before and after its fixed and see what goes into that repair. Detailing work is all cash. Price the job & be done with it.
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I totally agree. Repairing a train wreck is way more difficult than even the most tedious detail operation. And it requires years & tons of training to properly be able to complete. And most body shops are charging between $40-50 per hour and the technician is paid less than $20/hr.

Scott@ID said:
I don't think they're comparable being one is a luxury and the other is needed to actually drive from point A to point B. The value of a clean interior is subjective, but the value of a running vehicle is not (if it's your primary mode of transportation).

There is a place for detailing at all price levels because it's subjective and a luxury. Auto repair is either fixed or not, unless it's a luxury like a performance shop, then I think those prices would be more comparable due to the same market of people with large disposable incomes.
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Not all detailing is based on the luxury aspect. In fact, probably the lowest piece of the detailing pie belongs in this category. I'd have to classify the majority of detailing as a necessity for dealers, fleet companies and anyone that isn't able to tackle a specific/required cosmetic issue with their vehicle.

Scott@ID said:
Value does not correlate to price. It's easy for a customer to see the difference with a detail than with their vehicle being fixed, the "satisfaction" of having a running car only latest so long before it's normal. A detail is an instant reward, that if you can afford it, and value it, I don't see a reason for detailers making $90-100/hr if their market will pay it.
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Huge difference between making and charging. I earned (made) $1500 coating a car this weekend. It took about 5 hours to complete. The likelihood of me being able to tell this (or any) person that my hourly rate is $300 and them going for it is pretty unlikely. OTOH, if I charged the high end of the detailing spectrum ($100/hr), I would of lost money. Another reason why charging hourly isn't smart
 
So how do you arrive at your pricing? You ignore the time it takes and just attach an arbitrary value? Or are you just saying you refuse to give someone your hourly rate?

You charge more for what reason? Less for what reason?

Just trying to understand your original post.
 
We'll since you never heard of it allow me to elaborate. I either lease my cars if I plan on using them up quickly. Like my daily driver. It sees 18-20k per year and it's hard miles. I lease it and it's gone before the warranty expires. I would never want to hold onto that car as it would be worthless. My wife and sons car see 8k and 4k per year respectively and I see no reason to return a new car to the dealer. As such I purchase these cars and also get a MbW. Mechanical breakdown warranty from my insurer. It covers anything the warranty goes not as long as the failure was not do to a performance modification, rust or a collision. On my 2002 qx4 when I purchased the warranty it was for unlimited mileage. That truck has 102k on the clock and they still pay for whatever is covered. They have since changed the timeline on any new policies purchased to 7 years 100k miles.

I have a 250 dollar deductible but it's paid off fabulously for me. Since it's their money they can negotiate and reserve the right to negotiate with the shop of my choice and supply oem parts. Not aftermarket unless I agree. Which I don't. They send their inspector to verify the necessity of the work, and they know the ins and outs of the mechanical work and are able to get a better deal.

Hope that explains it clearly.

David Fermani said:
I've never heard of Geico (or any other auto insurer) giving warranties? That is unless the car was involved in an accident. That makes sense though seeing that it's the SRS equipment you're referring to. And as far as parts.....it's usually the opposite. They reserve the right to use aftermarket/used if OEM are not cost effective.
As far as them negotiating with the dealer, that's pretty typical actually. Dealer service depts are typically way overpriced labor wise. They tend to not recognize overlapping operations and charge 1-2 times what warranty times are for their labor. Insurance companies tend to go off of the labor times that Mitchell designates which can fluctuate from the dealer database.
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David Fermani said:
Not all detailing is based on the luxury aspect. In fact, probably the lowest piece of the detailing pie belongs in this category. I'd have to classify the majority of detailing as a necessity for dealers, fleet companies and anyone that isn't able to tackle a specific/required cosmetic issue with their vehicle.



Huge difference between making and charging. I earned (made) $1500 coating a car this weekend. It took about 5 hours to complete. The likelihood of me being able to tell this (or any) person that my hourly rate is $300 and them going for it is pretty unlikely. OTOH, if I charged the high end of the detailing spectrum ($100/hr), I would of lost money. Another reason why charging hourly isn't smart
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Very true. I think there are pros and cons to each, and both help derive the pricing points. Always great advance. Thanks David.
 
Mechanics were I live charge between $60/h to $150/h (dealers charge $90/h to $150/h for regular work).

Detailers in my area that I reached out to for estimates did not charge by the hour they gave me a flat cost estimate to wet sand my orange peel on my Jeep SRT8. The costs from shop to shop where wildly different ($600 -$2200) as was their process. Some detailers were willing to just wet sand others insisted that they would have to compound, polish, and seal the paint as part of their process. The higher costing shops said that this is because, they want to maintain a high standard/reputation

Most if not all the detailing shops I called advised me not to have my SRT wet sanded. In the end I figured I’d do it myself slowly using a technique I could handle and I’m happy to say things are going well, using CarPRO denim pads and M105 on a Porter cable 7424xp.

I’m thinking of expanding my detailing skills and may open my own detailing shop one day. Hence my interest in this post...
 
Stokdgs said:
JSFM35X -

Yeah, historically, Dealerships charge by the Flat Rate book, the mechanics try to do it quicker, so they can get more work and get their piece of the pie at whatever size it is..

What no one ever talks about is who decided these people would be the ones to make up the book in the first place ? What makes them the authority on how long it takes to all this work ?

If mechanics have found ways to do a job quicker and better, not sacrificing anything, have the number of hours in this Flat Rate book changed to less hours now, so we the consumers are not jacked nearly as bad ?

This stuff has always made me crazy..
Dan F
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Most company’s pad the price to allow room for negotiations, and for unforeseen additional costs. That’s why I always negotiate the price of things, it's my right and my day to day job :)
 
JVD said:
So how do you arrive at your pricing? You ignore the time it takes and just attach an arbitrary value? Or are you just saying you refuse to give someone your hourly rate?

You charge more for what reason? Less for what reason?

Just trying to understand your original post.
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After professionally detailing for well over 20 years (mostly in a fast paced environment), I know what it takes to complete a job. A quick walk around reveals everything most of the time. There's just not that many roadblocks with detailing if you know what you're doing. I've seen detailers claim that there's no way to know until they are into the job, but to me, that's a cop out. If I were a potential customer and my prospective detailer couldn't tell me how long the detail was going to take and/or how much it will cost (withing a few bucks), I'd run the opposite way as quickly as possible. And again, I'm a firm believer in giving a client a price range. The higher the price of the detail job, the more of a range. It allows for any unexpected minor things that could come up.
 
All my packages are a set price. I based my pricing on my average times and $60/hr. I do list wet sanding at $60/hr, but I would give a solid figure upon seeing the car and knowing more what the owners expectations are.
 
Just to chime in on the whole dealership and insurance companies "negotiating" for you to get a better price... Having worked in a dealership body shop I know full well that all insurance companies have in mind is their bottom line. The "negotiating" is only so much as the agent and service writer going back and forth on how corners can be cut to reduce costs. More often than not the body repair guys would have to do repairs that they know full well aren't "right" but good enough because the insurance company simply won't pay to do it right. Weather or not they want to do it right is not a factor. The insurance agent negotiates lower prices by finding cheaper parts/labor and you absolutely get what's paid for. There was one instance where a car came into the body shop, fairly new only a couple thousand on the odometer, needed a new engine, insurance agent made them get a used engine with over 20k miles on it already. All because it was cheaper. So some poor person had a 2000 mile car with an engine with over 20k miles on it. I would NEVER EVER trust an insurance agent to negotiate for me simply because they don't care about anything more than their bottom line.

Back on the original topic. I for one have a starting price for types of vehicles I do, and provide a quote after a quick 5-10 minute inspection and talk with the owner. Granted its much easier for what I do as I'm not providing high end detailing like many people here, but with just a little experience it becomes pretty easy to come up with a time estimate and give a price
 
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