Car Dealership Detailing In Action!

Shiny Lil Detlr said:
Only time I've ever heard of/done anything with taking a metal razor blade to paint was when it's fresh out of the booth, as a means to remove runs in the clear. The key to that technique though is to slightly bend the blade so the ends won't dig in, and also profiling the edge of the blade against some 1500 grit sandpaper. It's a similar but inexpensive alternative to a nib file.



I've done this many time to remove runs as well. ;)



I've used a blade to scrape off yellow road paint before on the lowers but it was random splatters and not what I'd call over spray. IME it marrs the paint, and one slight slip and it can do irreparable damage to the paint. I would much rather use clay, chemical, or wet sand off over spray before taking a blade to it. Then again I try to avoid over spray job as much as possible. ;)
 
lasthope05 said:
I've done it before on paint and its nothing im too proud of. I was removing overspray on glass with a razor blade and thought why it wouldnt work on paint. While it does work well enough on curved panels and at near perpendicular angle to not cut into the paint it does not work well on flat panels as the blade ends slightly scrape. I also remember Kevin Brown mentioned having used the technique before also but only in an extreme case.





This guy does it day in, day out on entire vehicles. We’ve all used razor blades in isolated occasions like you’re talking about, but not anywhere close to this magnitude. I seriously doubt he’s damaging the paint either with the techniques he’s using. Check out his videos in action and try to duplicate or even come close to his level of smoothness. It’s something that I’m sure takes a long time to accomplish. Kudos to him for that at least. Unless someone can substantiate another entity using this method on entire vehicles as workflow, I’m all for giving the originating designation to this guy.



lasthope05 said:
I've removed overspray before on textured trim, but it is all dependent on what type of substance it is. In my case it was latex paint, which Krud Kutter and IPA took care of.



It sure does depend on the kind of contaminant and on what surface it’s being removed from as well as the lengths of time it’s been allowed to dwell and under what environment it’s marinated in. More then likely technicians aren’t able to remove it then able to from my experience.
 
RaskyR1 said:
I would much rather use clay, chemical, or wet sand off over spray before taking a blade to it.



Me too! We use to have great success using Micro-Surface 3600/4000 grit paper on overspray/fallout jobs. And you wouldn't usually need to use a wool pad to clean the marring up either.
 
Thanks Jeff for answering my question. That makes more sense.



Jeff Suggs said:
Paint Overspray Removal International Services "S60 T-6 Volvo used in Twilight Saga Breaking Dawn" - Volvo insurance - Video - Volvo club For everyone that has ask me about my polishing technique here it is. My videos are also watched by other overspray companies, keeping this in mind I don't reveal every step or every product that I use. BC-2 is just one of the products that I use. I also use Meguiars, 3M, & WolfGang trim dressing and others products. I make the videos so that insurers, contractors, and individuals can observe the process. I am not just buffing with BC-2 and calling it a day. This is just one step of a five step process. I only use BC-2 because it is very low on the abrasive scale. Auto Magic is the product that all of the other companies use, and I want to make them think that it is all I use. I have over 25 different polishes and wax products. I am always wanting to try new products, and would like to try some that are sold through this site. If I like the products, I will make a video demonstrating me using them on a vehicle damaged with overspray. When I make a video Google will make ad featuring that video. The last video that I post is at the top of every site from countries all over the world .http://ucc.blognawa.com/ucclist.htm...=Jeff+Suggs+intenational+overspray+specialist
 
Wetsanding to remove overspray reminded me about a product that was brought up briefly over on DB called Nanoskin Autoscrub. Supposedly its a pad that removes above surface contaminates without leaving behind marring. Looks like an interesting product, though there is no reviews on it yet. The lighting is that great in the video but it does look promising.



NANOSKIN AutoScrub is Safe on Black Paint.mp4 - YouTube
 
David Fermani said:
Me too! We use to have great success using Micro-Surface 3600/4000 grit paper on overspray/fallout jobs. And you wouldn't usually need to use a wool pad to clean the marring up either.



I've used that technique a few times since you first turned me on to it, and especially with the MF DA system clean-up is a breeze and provides true full correction. I think the buffing practices and flawed logic regarding that part of his process are the primary thing we are all taking issue with where Jeff is concerned. The razor blade thing is take it or leave it; but it's certainly an aggressive technique with a wide margin for error.



If only Jeff would try responding in a mature and professional manner, we might actually get somewhere in a conversation.
 
David Fermani you are right it has some glaze properties, but not enough to hide damage. I mention earlier that the first vehicle that I do has to stay looking good for the entire time that I am on the job in all weather conditions. This averages 3 to 4 weeks on each job. The only thing I really use BC-2 for is to buff with, it has just enough cut to buff out light paint damage, and not swirl too much. I use other products that are not mentioned in my videos because the other overspray companies are watching the videos. They use BC-2 so it doesn't manner if they know of me using that product. I am always looking for new products David and would like you opinion on some of the products sold through Autopia site. There is always something for everyone to learn in this business, and that would include me. I would also like to make a video demonstrating the products that I decide to use. This is a new ad that was made for California clay bar. I tried this clay and its okay but not on an industrial scale of use. Paintoversprayremovaloftexas-com-how-to-claybar-a-vehicle
 
Jeff Suggs said:
David Fermani you are right it has some glaze properties, but not enough to hide damage.



If a product has ANY glaze properties, it IS hiding SOME damage. Period. In your case, most likely it's buffer trails from the wool pad.



I mention earlier that the first vehicle that I do has to stay looking good for the entire time that I am on the job in all weather conditions. This averages 3 to 4 weeks on each job.



So are you acknowledging an awareness that after that 3-4 week period, some of the damage you "removed" may come back as the glaze properties wear off?



Just trying to get to the bottom of what you're actually doing, or at least what you think you're actually doing -- this has been the point of contention all along here. If you recognize that by using a product with glaze properties and finishing with a wool pad that is not held flat to the paint surface you're leaving damage behind that will eventually show up, then the problem we have is that you're misrepresenting your work by saying all the damage is "gone." If on the other hand you don't recognize that you're leaving behind swirls/trails which will eventually show back up, please allow us to educate you and try to help you improve your technique so that doesn't happen.



I realize it is the nature of dealerships to only care that a vehicle looks good long enough to move off their lot, and thus that is the standard you have to cater to in your chosen line of work, but hopefully you realize that is exactly what you're doing. People other than overspray companies may see your videos, hear you say "all the damage is gone" and assume the buffing technique you demonstrated is the proper technique for actually removing damage, when in point of fact it's just hiding a certain amount of the damage. Later these folks come to those of us who specialize in paintwork correction wondering why their damage came back after trying your methods on their own.



I would just urge you not to mislead viewers in that respect when creating videos -- let them know at the very least that there are extra steps involved that either aren't being shown or aren't being performed to get the results to actually last because of the type of business you're in and the outcomes your customers expect and require.
 
A piece of masking tape on each end of the blade keeps it from scratching the paint and only touching the run.



RaskyR1 said:
I've done this many time to remove runs as well. ;)



I've used a blade to scrape off yellow road paint before on the lowers but it was random splatters and not what I'd call over spray. IME it marrs the paint, and one slight slip and it can do irreparable damage to the paint. I would much rather use clay, chemical, or wet sand off over spray before taking a blade to it. Then again I try to avoid over spray job as much as possible. ;)
 
I wanted say to everyone for my part in all this I am sorry. Believe me that is not who I am. I just get a little offended when someone down grades my work. My work and the methods that I use is out of 23 years of trial and error. Everything bad that you can do with a razor blade to a vehicle, I have done. This is just part of the learning curve of blading a vehicle. When I get to a job, I always tell everyone that they are more then welcome to observe my process. I want them to come and watch so that they can see how I do this. I would like to meet some members at someones shop that everyone can meet at and demonstrate how I do this. When you see this in person, you will get it. I have never been to a job, and after I demonstrated my cleaning process was told "no thanks I will pass on that" This is a video of me removing industrial overspray from textured mirrors jeffsuggs's Channel - YouTube
 
Takes a real man to say sorry. Very cool of you. I think it would be great if everyone else who offended you would chime in as well.
 
Think about this for a minute, when I am on a job the first vehicle I repair has to stay looking good for the entire time that I am a job. This is always 3 to 4 week in all weather conditions. When a customer has an estimate and they are looking to make some cash off the estimate they have for repairs, the first thing they do is bring it back to the paint shop that gave them the estimate. Now you have several paint and body shop guys that are looking for any little damage they can find. I never hide my cleaning methods, so they know that I used a razor blade to remove the overspray. I have shot down over $525,000 in estimates this year alone. I always save these estimate to show the insurer on the next claim.
Shiny Lil Detlr said:
If a product has ANY glaze properties, it IS hiding SOME damage. Period. In your case, most likely it's buffer trails from the wool pad.







So are you acknowledging an awareness that after that 3-4 week period, some of the damage you "removed" may come back as the glaze properties wear off?



Just trying to get to the bottom of what you're actually doing, or at least what you think you're actually doing -- this has been the point of contention all along here. If you recognize that by using a product with glaze properties and finishing with a wool pad that is not held flat to the paint surface you're leaving damage behind that will eventually show up, then the problem we have is that you're misrepresenting your work by saying all the damage is "gone." If on the other hand you don't recognize that you're leaving behind swirls/trails which will eventually show back up, please allow us to educate you and try to help you improve your technique so that doesn't happen.



I realize it is the nature of dealerships to only care that a vehicle looks good long enough to move off their lot, and thus that is the standard you have to cater to in your chosen line of work, but hopefully you realize that is exactly what you're doing. People other than overspray companies may see your videos, hear you say "all the damage is gone" and assume the buffing technique you demonstrated is the proper technique for actually removing damage, when in point of fact it's just hiding a certain amount of the damage. Later these folks come to those of us who specialize in paintwork correction wondering why their damage came back after trying your methods on their own.



I would just urge you not to mislead viewers in that respect when creating videos -- let them know at the very least that there are extra steps involved that either aren't being shown or aren't being performed to get the results to actually last because of the type of business you're in and the outcomes your customers expect and require.
 
This is a vehicle that I repaired in the Ford dealer ship paint and body shop. I show the estimate in the video, and it was over $4800 dollars. The guys in the shop were not too happy for me being there in their shop repairing a vehicle they had the estimate on. The insurer was an old friend of mine, and I did not want to let him down.jeffsuggs's Channel - YouTube
 
That's just too painful to watch... Talk about using a cannon to kill a mosquito! You could have just clayed the overspay off and used a DA to do the rest. I mean, it's silver for crying out loud! What is using a wool pad going to do for it that a DA wouldn't do? Clearly he isn't trying to correct all the damage since he isn't even inspecting the work as he goes, so all he is doing is a burn and churn job in a dealership lot. I'm sorry, but what a hack... That's ok though. I make good money fixing the problems guys like this create. ;)
 
Jeff Suggs said:
Think about this for a minute, when I am on a job the first vehicle I repair has to stay looking good for the entire time that I am a job. This is always 3 to 4 week in all weather conditions. When a customer has an estimate and they are looking to make some cash off the estimate they have for repairs, the first thing they do is bring it back to the paint shop that gave them the estimate. Now you have several paint and body shop guys that are looking for any little damage they can find. I never hide my cleaning methods, so they know that I used a razor blade to remove the overspray. I have shot down over $525,000 in estimates this year alone. I always save these estimate to show the insurer on the next claim.



Still doesn't seem you bothered to read what I posted in order to address it....
 
Jeff Suggs said:
David Fermani you are right it has some glaze properties, but not enough to hide damage. I mention earlier that the first vehicle that I do has to stay looking good for the entire time that I am on the job in all weather conditions. This averages 3 to 4 weeks on each job. The only thing I really use BC-2 for is to buff with, it has just enough cut to buff out light paint damage, and not swirl too much. I use other products that are not mentioned in my videos because the other overspray companies are watching the videos. They use BC-2 so it doesn't manner if they know of me using that product. I am always looking for new products David and would like you opinion on some of the products sold through Autopia site. There is always something for everyone to learn in this business, and that would include me. I would also like to make a video demonstrating the products that I decide to use. This is a new ad that was made for California clay bar. I tried this clay and its okay but not on an industrial scale of use. Paintoversprayremovaloftexas-com-how-to-claybar-a-vehicle



Jeff – I could always tell the dealer cars my guys didn’t do a finishing step on after using wool. Wanna know why? They thought they could get away with 1 stepping a car with a wool pad/BC-2(usually) just because the car looked good *then*. But, after sitting on the dealer’s lot for up to 90 days (many times) the swirls would start to poke though as the fillers broke down. Back then we didn’t do alcohol wipe downs, but that doesn’t mean you can’t to confirm what I’m saying is accurate. Try using BC-2 with wool on a dark colored car, with lower speeds and keep the pad flat and moist. Then pull the car out side in the sun and wipe half the hood down with straight alcohol (once or twice) and see what comes back. You might be surprised!! There’s not a person @ Auto Magic that will say (with a straight face) that their polishes/glazes should be used with wool as a finishing devise for a swirl free finish. It breaks every principal they instruct.



But, and that’s a big but, we both know that overspray clients aren’t paying for their paint to look high polished and perfect. They just want and we’re getting paid to remove the paint contaminants and any damage we inflict as a result of said process. It boils down to returning the vehicle to pre-loss condition. I’m sure you’ve heard that term used before right?? What you’re doing is going above and beyond that requirement and it’s probably made you feel pretty proud about it too. Nothing wrong with that!! But you see, on this forum, people (Autopians) strive to go even further. We don’t stop until every square inch of a vehicle is polished to perfection and stays that way. We tend to avoid the use of glazes and exhaust every possible bit of shine from the surface before relying on any wax, sealant of glaze to protect our hard work. For some, it’s a sickness, for others it’s the only way they know. I hope that a little of this can “rub off” onto you!



As far as my opinion on products for your type of work, I actually have a couple of really good choices. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you essentially need a product that will remove minor oxidation and leve the paint clean and shiny right? You’d also like to go all this in as few steps as possible; probably 1 I take it? Well, if so, then you really need to look into buying a Dual Action Buffer (DA) and using the new Meguiar’s Micro Fiber cutting pads. I’d either use Meguiar’s new D300 polishing compound (smells like cinnamon) or HD UNO. Both can, when used with proper technique, can and will give you everything you’ll ever need.



Tools:

*Porter Cable XP:

http://www.detailersdomain.com/Porter-Cable-7424XP_p_253.html

Dual Action Polisher - Porter Cable 7424XP for New Look of Your Car



*Meguiar’s MF Correction Pads: http://www.detailersdomain.com/Meguiars-6-DA-Microfiber-Cutting-Disc-2-Pack-_p_554.html



Choice of Polishes:

*Meguiar’s D300 Polish: http://www.detailersdomain.com/Meguiars-DA-Microfiber-Compound-D300_p_552.html

*HD UNO: Auto Polish Product for Car Paint, Plastic & Glass - HD Uno 32oz | 3DProducts



Paint Sealants:

HD POXY: Polymer Sealant Car Wax & Car Paint Protectant - HD POXY 32 oz | 3D Products

Optimum Poly Seal: http://www.detailersdomain.com/Optimum-Poli-Seal_p_277.html





Both available through our forum sponsors and I believe they are offering up to 25% off right now too. Please let me know if you have any other questions. I really think these things could not only be a real eye opener for you and your business, but could dramatically improve your quality too. Trust me as I faithfully used Auto Magic products for nearly 2 decades and am not looking back.
 
Every time I watch one of his videos I think two things. 1.) That guy does an awful lot of cocaine and 2.) That guy has no idea how to use a buffer.
 
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