Can I have my crow slightly warmed, please?

SuperBee364

SuperBee364

New member
So in one of my recent posts, I once again brought up one of my favorite arguments: using finishing wool instead of foam for the final polishing step. TH001 (please forgive me for not remembering your name. Getting old sucks), said something about how the fibers in the wool just wouldn't allow you to get as good of a finish as foam. So I replied that I was doing a vehicle, and would do half the hood with foam, the other with wool. I was certain that I'd be puffing up my chest, and posting "See? You can't tell the difference! Wool finishes down just as well as foam!"



I was planning on comparing white LC foam to Edge white finishing wool. Accumulator brought it to my attention that that wouldn't be a real apples/apples test; I should be using finishing foam instead of light polishing foam. So I searched around and was able to find a black LC finishing foam pad that I had been afraid to use. The others I had bought at the same time had seperated the velcro from the pad.



So anyway, I finished the entire hood with the white wool first. I was able to find a small 4oz bottle of PO106FF, so I used it. Then I finished half the hood again with the black LC foam. TH001 (and everyone else who told me I was missing out), you were 100% correct, and I was 100% wrong. The finish that the 106 and black foam left was unreal. Jaw dropping. Crow eating. :/ Needless to say, I ended up doing the entire vehicle again (a Suburban!) with the 106 and the black foam. To steal the words of TH001, the surface was thoroughly "jeweled". (Love that term. One of the best descriptions for the final finish I've heard. Hope you don't mind me stealing it from you.)



I was so happy with the way it turned out, I'm like a kid on Christmas with a new toy; I really want to learn more about "jeweling the finish." So I'm humbly asking for more advice. What's the best jeweling foam pads out there, and is there any advantage to using a *really* fine polish like PO85, 106FA, etc.? If so, which one? Should I just stick with 106, or should I switch to Ultrafina? I just finished my very last drop of 106, so I really need some advice on what to get.



It makes me sick to think about all the shine I (and especially my customers) have been missing out on. All because I was stubborn. Well, that and the fact that my previous batch of finishing foam pads self-destructed.



Anyway, I really appreciate all the help and advice you guys share.



Now if you'll excuse me, there's some slightly warmed crow I need to get back to.
 
I really like the Ultrafina, I think it would worth your while to give it a try.



As far as pads, I have had great results with the blue 3M 8" foam. Now I know you are thinking the exact samething I did. A 8" pad is going to be a PITA, but I really like it. Todd (TH0001) says the Megs solo black finishing pad works great, I picked up one but have yet to use it.
 
I have been told that you could finish with wool but I haven’t been able to duplicated foam finish either. I though it could be that I don’t work much with OEM paints but mostly custom paints which vary from super soft and medium hard and from single stage to base and clear. I have figured out that I can finish with rotary with a black finishing pad at about 800 to 1000 RPM and save sometime. I also believe that “I� get better finish with POR85RD than I do 106FF in the jewelling stage. I will also very the pressure from firm to the weight of the machine and the softer the paint the slower I go. So yes I do agree with you – “I� can get better jewelling finish out foam that I can with edge wool.
 
SuperBee364- Ah, interesting, thanks for posting your results! Given your expectations this made for a good test IMO. I know what you mean when you get one of those "eureka!" moments, when you achieve results you simply hadn't seen before.



gmblack3a- I haven't figured out how I can use an 8" pad in some areas, seems like I'd simply *have* to use a smaller pad or else really tilt the larger one, which I fear would cause holograms :think: Any suggestions?
 
You might find this thread over at DW interesting.



They used a variety of finishing polishes and tested the differences in the finish using a rather expensive gloss meter. The results are quite interesting..... I guess there are some variables to consider, like paint etc but useful nonetheless.
 
Wool fibers cut into the paint. I have never seen a dark color look close to perfect after being polished with wool and wiped down with a solvent like prep sol. I believe that microscopically polishing the paint (or jeweling it) with a non mechanical foam pad (such as a LC gray/blue/red or Meg's So1o) acts to level out the imperfections that we cannot even see.



The paint is then flatter and reflects more light directly (instead of letting the light become scattered in the microscopic imperfections), which gives a sharper, more reflective surface.



No need to eat crow, and I am glad that you had greater success with the foam finishing. The goal of this board should always be to help eachother :D



Also, this thread is completely worthless with out pics :)
 
Shopping list so far:



1. 3M Ultrafina. It's going to replace the PO106FF.



2. 3M Blue Finishing foam.



3. Megs solo black finishing foam.



4. Menzerna PO85RD. For when I have the time to do an extra step after the Ultrafina.



5. Megs M105. I had to use three applications of Edge black wool and Menzerna Power Gloss on the above referenced Suburban to get it corrected. 8 hours just on correction.



Bigpikle, that was a very interesting thread. First time I've ever heard of a Gloss Meter. Think I'll look around detailingworld for more posts/info about that gloss meter.



My usual internet detailing suppliers don't seem to carry the 3M Ultrafina or 3M pads. Can anyone suggest a few reputable places to order them from?



Is it possible to two-step really hard clears that need serious correction using M105 followed by Ultrafina and a blue pad?



I four-stepped that stupid Suburban...



1. Menzerna PG with black wool (X3 in many places)



2. MSIP purple foamed wool.



3. PO106FF (and on half the truck, 1Z Hochglanz) Edge White Finishing Wool.



4. PO106FF, LC Black finishing foam.



Of course, alot of that work was self-inflicted. I could have skipped the white finishing wool entirely, but the SIP was definitely needed after the PG. It would be great to be able to go right from M105 straight to the Ultrafina.



More help/ideas/thoughts/criticisms greatly appreciated.
 
TH0001 said:
Wool fibers cut into the paint. I have never seen a dark color look close to perfect after being polished with wool and wiped down with a solvent like prep sol. I believe that microscopically polishing the paint (or jeweling it) with a non mechanical foam pad (such as a LC gray/blue/red or Meg's So1o) acts to level out the imperfections that we cannot even see.



The paint is then flatter and reflects more light directly (instead of letting the light become scattered in the microscopic imperfections), which gives a sharper, more reflective surface.



No need to eat crow, and I am glad that you had greater success with the foam finishing. The goal of this board should always be to help eachother :D



Also, this thread is completely worthless with out pics :)
Click to expand...



That totally makes sense, and certainly agrees with the results I saw today. Thanks again, man, my customer was very, very happy with how his truck looks.



I really wish I would have taken pictures of it, but I spent so much additional time on the correction and polishing, I didn't have time to take pics before he had to pick up his truck.
 
I used an green Edge wool pad today with 3m 3000RC. I followed with SIP on a grerman green pad-both on rotary. I then used ZPC on a white CCS pad with my Ridgid 2611. Considering how bad the scratches on the hood were my results looked pretty good. I think it's easier to finish with a RO for daily drivers.
 
Bigpikle said:
You might find this thread over at DW interesting.



They used a variety of finishing polishes and tested the differences in the finish using a rather expensive gloss meter. The results are quite interesting..... I guess there are some variables to consider, like paint etc but useful nonetheless.
Click to expand...



Interesting read. I'm glad I bought some PO85RD a while back. :D
 
Glad you enjoyed the results of finessing with a finishing pad. While there are lots of great products out there, Ultrafina just works wonders for me. What you see is what you get with no issues.



106 and 85rd are great polishes too and I do use them, but you have to make sure you do a few IPA wipedowns to remove the oils for inspection and proper adhesion.
 
You guys definitely have me convinced to buy the Ultrafina and the blue foam, but I'm still having a hard time finding it in stock anywhere. Anyone have an internet supplier for this stuff?
 
SuperBee364 said:
Of course, alot of that work was self-inflicted. I could have skipped the white finishing wool entirely, but the SIP was definitely needed after the PG. It would be great to be able to go right from M105 straight to the Ultrafina.



More help/ideas/thoughts/criticisms greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Ultrafina is pretty fine. I've seen two online reviews and ultrafina may struggle to take out the marring if M105 is used with a twisted wool pad.



Menzerna 106FF from my limited experience and from all reports will have a much better chance at removing the marring and holograms created from m105. Though this also has a lot to do with the pad choice. A light polishing pad will remove the holograms with ultrafina where as 106FF and a finishing pad may no be strong enough. With the same pad though 106FF will be a bit stronger.



So even though ultrafina may finish better it may lack the strength and require two passes, in which case it may be worth going 106FF if you are pressed for time.



On a different note i'd reccomend you buy all of the solo pads. Having wool pads for cutting and foam pads for final polishing is pretty much spot on. Ensures awesome results every time.
 
Todd or Ryan, do you think Ultrafina or 85RD would help increase the gloss on my C6 corvette or is the clear too hard to really be affected by such low cut products or does the cut even have anything to do with it? In short, will this "Jeweling" technique work on rock hard clears? :think:



Patrick
 
DieselMDX said:
seems to me UF and 85 are similar in cut which is not much
Click to expand...



But, according to the EPOCH's test, 85rd has much greater gloss on the gloss meter than Ultrafina:



UF = 90.5

85RD = 99.1



So, does that mean that UF's greatest use (and what it was designed for) would be for anti-hologram/swirl removal, not jeweling/burnishing?





SuperBee - Could you go back to this thread & edit because of your new found enlightenment:





http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-...458-wool-vs-foam-who-wins.html?highlight=wool



:nana: :D
 
grainger carries all the 3m stuff, they are a little high unless you have an account with them.



you also have to have a business license to purchase from them...call them up and see what they can do for you....
 
R & E Paint Supply



they carry the 3m ultrafina stuff as well, even the pads. they also have bulk pricing on some stuff.



QUART 3M 05751, Perfect-It Ultrafina Foam Polishing Pad, 8", (2) per pack - $26.95



QUART 3M 06068, Perfect-It 3000, Ultrafina SE, Swirl Eliminator - $35.18 (ea)

bulk (6 min purchase) - $31.81(ea)



GAL 3M 06069, Perfect-It 3000, Ultrafina SE, Swirl Eliminator - $120.88

bulk (4 min purchase) - $108.16



dont know if those are good prices, and dont know what shipping will be like...but that should get you started :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top