Can I have my crow slightly warmed, please?

[Todd@RUPES]

But, according to the EPOCH's test, 85rd has much greater gloss on the gloss meter than Ultrafina:



UF = 90.5

85RD = 99.1



So, does that mean that UF's greatest use (and what it was designed for) would be for anti-hologram/swirl removal, not jeweling/burnishing?





SuperBee - Could you go back to this thread & edit because of your new found enlightenment:





http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-...458-wool-vs-foam-who-wins.html?highlight=wool



:nana:

I would say on that particular paint, 85RD would be the better choices. IMO, there are way too many factors involved in a question like that to even cite more that example as more then an interesting read (or use it as proof of anything) would be inappropriate.



Factors such as pad type and paint hardness will influence the results, as well as external factors such as tempature and humidity. So on that particular day, for the particular paint, with that particular gentleman using that particular machine PO85RD produced a higher gloss (or whatever that machine is measuring).



I have found UF-SE to leave a finish that rivals most finishing products on most paints. On harder paint (such as Corvette's/Audi's/Mercedes Benz) I will finish with 106ff. On some paints I will finish PO85u, on some FPII, on some Meg's 80 or 82 or 09, on some OP, etc...



I will test several different final polishes on paint to see which ones gives a higher gloss to my eyes. I have found even on the same type of car (Brian and I where doing two Green Lambo Murielago's) that one paint we both agreed that PO85u finished the best, but on the other paint it was jumpy. We cycled through our collection and both agreed that 106ff finished the best on that particular paint. Both Lamborghini's where '06s.



So again, in my experience, one test one particular vehicles makes for a fun read, but presents far to little to base opinions on.

 

[imported_Dave11]

I would say on that particular paint, 85RD would be the better choices. IMO, there are way too many factors involved in a question like that to even cite more that example as more then an interesting read (or use it as proof of anything) would be inappropriate.

"Jeweling" question for you Todd.....



Since Ultrafina is to be removed before it dries, is 85RD a better option to work the surface for longer periods....?



I use 3m black/gray waffle pads with UF and RD. I haven't purchaced any blue waffles as of yet. You think the blue might offer longer working times....?



Thanks.....

 

[Todd@RUPES]

I don't think the blue is going offer you a longer play time (I also like the gray waffle pads as well). I have never had UF dry up, even after working it for over two minutes at low rpm. I don't know why the need would exist to work a polish any longer than that?



Have you had problems with UF drying up?

 

[imported_Dave11]

I don't think the blue is going offer you a longer play time (I also like the gray waffle pads as well). I have never had UF dry up, even after working it for over two minutes at low rpm. I don't know why the need would exist to work a polish any longer than that?



Have you had problems with UF drying up?

Glad you asked that.....



When I first got my UF in January I was using just three small dots with a spritzed black pad and after a few passes it didn't remain wet and I posted about this and was told I wasn't using the product as it was intended. Another forum member mentioned to me to load up the pad when first starting out and that will aid in the working time.



What is your favorite speed to work UF and how much product to you like to use...?



Same question for 85RD........Thanks.....:xyxthumbs

 

[imported_DennisH]

Todd or Ryan, do you think Ultrafina or 85RD would help increase the gloss on my C6 corvette or is the clear too hard to really be affected by such low cut products or does the cut even have anything to do with it? In short, will this "Jeweling" technique work on rock hard clears? :think:



Patrick

I own a 2008 CRM and used 106FF, black pad using a rotary to take out some scratches that the body shop put in when they put my new spoiler on. Surface looked perfect but I went ahead and used POR85RD, black pad with a rotary at 1000 RPM and seem to take it to a new level gloss. I would say yes it fine for jeweling on hard clear on a C6 but don't expect it take out anything but very light swirls. I do several show cars and I'm a huge fan of 85RD and jeweling surfaces!!!

 

[imported_rydawg1]

Todd or Ryan, do you think Ultrafina or 85RD would help increase the gloss on my C6 corvette or is the clear too hard to really be affected by such low cut products or does the cut even have anything to do with it? In short, will this "Jeweling" technique work on rock hard clears? :think:



Patrick

Patrick,

Rick and I just opened a shop In Burlington and you will have to come by and see us once we are all set up. We could do some real testing and see what really amps the gloss.:chuckle:

 

[imported_rydawg1]

I'll have to pick up one of those gloss meters. I want to see if I can knock if off axis.:laugh:

 

[DaGonz]

SuperBee...



Is there a Finishmaster auto body supply store near you? The carry the 3M line of products.



Finish Master: Automotive & Industrial Paint

 

[SuperBee364]

Ultrafina is pretty fine. I've seen two online reviews and ultrafina may struggle to take out the marring if M105 is used with a twisted wool pad.



Menzerna 106FF from my limited experience and from all reports will have a much better chance at removing the marring and holograms created from m105. Though this also has a lot to do with the pad choice. A light polishing pad will remove the holograms with ultrafina where as 106FF and a finishing pad may no be strong enough. With the same pad though 106FF will be a bit stronger.



So even though ultrafina may finish better it may lack the strength and require two passes, in which case it may be worth going 106FF if you are pressed for time.



On a different note i'd reccomend you buy all of the solo pads. Having wool pads for cutting and foam pads for final polishing is pretty much spot on. Ensures awesome results every time.

Very good info. Looks like there's still going to be a place on the shelf for PO106FF, and Ultrafina. The solo pads have been put on the shopping list.

But, according to the EPOCH's test, 85rd has much greater gloss on the gloss meter than Ultrafina:



UF = 90.5

85RD = 99.1



So, does that mean that UF's greatest use (and what it was designed for) would be for anti-hologram/swirl removal, not jeweling/burnishing?





SuperBee - Could you go back to this thread & edit because of your new found enlightenment:





http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-...458-wool-vs-foam-who-wins.html?highlight=wool



:nana:

No way! That banter we had going was some of our classic work, David! Be a shame to ruin it now. :lol On a serious note... I really do feel that white finishing wool finishes down much the same as a white LC pad. It is quicker about it, too. It just needs an extra jeweling step to really finish it off.

R & E Paint Supply



they carry the 3m ultrafina stuff as well, even the pads. they also have bulk pricing on some stuff.



QUART 3M 05751, Perfect-It Ultrafina Foam Polishing Pad, 8", (2) per pack - $26.95



QUART 3M 06068, Perfect-It 3000, Ultrafina SE, Swirl Eliminator - $35.18 (ea)

bulk (6 min purchase) - $31.81(ea)



GAL 3M 06069, Perfect-It 3000, Ultrafina SE, Swirl Eliminator - $120.88

bulk (4 min purchase) - $108.16



dont know if those are good prices, and dont know what shipping will be like...but that should get you started

Much appreciated! I'm going to place an order from them right now for the Ultrafina and the blue wafffle pads.

I own a 2008 CRM and used 106FF, black pad using a rotary to take out some scratches that the body shop put in when they put my new spoiler on. Surface looked perfect but I went ahead and used POR85RD, black pad with a rotary at 1000 RPM and seem to take it to a new level gloss. I would say yes it fine for jeweling on hard clear on a C6 but don't expect it take out anything but very light swirls. I do several show cars and I'm a huge fan of 85RD and jeweling surfaces!!!

Now that's what I'm talking about. I really wish I would have had some 85RD or 106FA yesterday to use after the 106FF.

I'll have to pick up one of those gloss meters. I want to see if I can knock if off axis.:laugh:

If anyone can, it would be you, Ry.

SuperBee...



Is there a Finishmaster auto body supply store near you? The carry the 3M line of products.



Finish Master: Automotive & Industrial Paint

No store in Utah. : /

 

[Accumulator]

... I really do feel that white finishing wool finishes down much the same as a white LC pad. It is quicker about it, too. It just needs an extra jeweling step to really finish it off..

Oops, sounds like your intial comparison idea (white wool vs. white LC) woulda been better than the one I suggested (wool "finishing" vs. foam finishing)



Since you already have the 1Z High-Gloss, I'll be interested to hear how UF (and/or anything else) compares to it.

 

[SuperBee364]

Oops, sounds like your intial comparison idea (white wool vs. white LC) woulda been better than the one I suggested (wool "finishing" vs. foam finishing)



Since you already have the 1Z High-Gloss, I'll be interested to hear how UF (and/or anything else) compares to it.

Well, I definitely would have had my chest-puffing moment. But as you pointed out, it wasn't a fair comparison. The white wool is marketed as a "finishing" pad, and the white LC pad is a "Light Polishing Pad". If the white wool is used as a light polishing pad, it blows the doors off of the LC white. Not only does it remove compounding marks, holograms, etc, it finishes off very nicely, and much faster than the white LC foam. However, it is not even close to being a true no-cut, "jeweling" pad in the black LC or blue 3M category.



I have been able to remove much harsher defects with PO106FF and the white wool than with the LC white. It is a much better "pre-jeweling" combo than the white LC foam.



Edit: my old prefered process was SIP with purple foamed wool. This in itself left a pretty nice finish, and removed moderate defects. I then would follow this with PO106FF and white finishing wool. This left a surface that was beautiful... defect free, no holograms... gorgeous, really. *Much* better than white LC foam. And I'd leave it at that. But to follow this up with a foam finishing pad upped the gloss to unreal levels. For cheapo details, I still plan to stick with my original system. But for the high end, high dollar stuff, they'll get "jeweled".

 

[teck]

here's a 50/50 left done with wool and right done with foam



Megs #4

Megs#2

Megs #3

the wool left buffer marks dont worry I got they out with the foam afterwards



foam is better imo

 

[Accumulator]

superbee364- Ah...sounds like the wool still has plenty of advantages...grr...I just know I'll have to try it sometime. Thanks for all that info. Yeah (even though I finish/burnish with the Cyclo), it seems like the closer you get to almost functionally nonabrasive, the better the final finish.

 

[ptaylor_9849]

Ryan and Rick, I would really like to come spend a day with you two when you open the new shop. Please let me know when it opens. I hope that things really take off for you guys. I can't imagine a more knowledgeable team. The results will be stunning.



Patrick

 

[Pats300zx]

Ryan and Rick...



Congrats on the new shop. I can't wait to see more info on it. You guys are going to make a great tag team up North.



I am looking forward to seeing more of your work together.:wow:

 

[imported_DieselMDX]

great thread this is what paint prep is all about

 

[Bert]

I believe that microscopically polishing the paint (or jeweling it) with a non mechanical foam pad (such as a LC gray/blue/red or Meg's So1o) acts to level out the imperfections that we cannot even see.

Todd, I know you like to use the contoured (mushroom shaped) pads. Do you use those only for your orange cutting pads or even for your LC gray/blue/red finishing pads?