black supra - with dreaded swirls! NEED HELP

G

giama

New member
PICS ADDED ON PAGE 2



hello guys, im a noob so bare with me please.



i have a 1996 black supra(202 colour code) and i have swirls which are very noticeablke in the sun and also what seems to be buff lines from the previous owner.



up until now i have used meguiars 3 stage kit in which i did the following



- wash car. then meguiars claybar

- meguiars paint cleaner

- meaguiars deep crystal polish

- meguiars carnauba wax

- meguiars tech wax



i did all of this once by hand and the car looked very new new and spotless. however after 1 month and washing it every week it seems to have gone back to square 1 = showing swirls. i think its time i used a PC 7424 to try to get out the swirls.



i have been using meguiars tech wax to hide the swirls but after 1 wash it comes off and im sick of waxing it every 1-2 weeks as its only masking the problem despite looking good when freshly applied.



i have measured the paint thickness and it ranges from 12mm to 18mm all over the car.



my questions are:



1) should i buy the perfect shine kit which consists of sonus products and klasse all in 1?

2) is this kit equal in quality to the meguairs products ive used. or will it produce better results using machine application with PC?

3) is it worth adding the klasse high gloss sealant glaze to use after the klasses all in 1 and before the final coat of p21s carnauba wax?

4) should i look to a range of other products like zaino or(whatever else people highly rate) or is sonus good enough!

5)when i purchase the PC 7424, what pads and bonnets should i buy for it? the perfect shine kit consists of sfx-1 and sfx-2 which are abbrasive and i have no idea what bonnets/pads etc to use and in which order, how many coats etc?



i basically want to eliminate swirls and ive read the tech articles and have seen photods of cars with much worse swirls than mine which end up looking new from using the PC to cut back the paint.



sorry for the big blab but the help is much appreciated. btw THE CAR IS NOT A CLEAR COATED PAINT JOB so will the sonus range be the right match or should i look to other products.



i will post pics shortly of current condition of paint.



if possible, can someone with vast experience in black cars post a lits of methods and processes of how to eliminate swirls and finish with a high gloss wet look which wont reveal swirls again after the car is washed. cheers.
 
can someone please list the type of foam pad i need for each of the products in the perfect shine kit. just copy and paste my list with the answer next to each product. ill be using the PC 7424.



my paint is black and not a clear coat paint finish.



- sonus SFX-1 restore polish - foam pad?

- sonus SFX-2 enhance polish - foam pad?

- Klasse all in 1 - foam pad?

- Klasse sealant glaze - foam pad?

- P21S carnauba wax - foam pad?



do you guys think these steps are adequate for fully removing swirls or should i use an extra pre wax/glaze product to make the paint swirl free?
 
Get the paint corrected with a machine polish.....



Then get it sealed and use proper washing techiques to keep the swirles to a minimum...It's very easy to re-swirl if you don't know what's causing them. There is plenty of advice here, search the threads for information......



Good luck....:xyxthumbs
 
i was the car with meguiars shampoo gold class using a meguiars wash mit(scratch free).



by machine polish you mean using porter cable right?
 
Hey giama, I got and replied to your PM. From a beginning stand point, you want to invest into a porter cable random buffer. Get some good poilshing pads and poilshes. THis will be key into removing swirls from the paint. Then learn to properly maintain the finish with proper washing technique and general car care. The links I sent you have a lot of info for all of that. Good luck!
 
giama said:
hello guys, im a noob so bare with me please.



i have a 1996 black supra(202 colour code) and i have swirls ..



up until now i have used meguiars 3 stage kit in which i did the following



- wash car. then meguiars claybar

- meguiars paint cleaner

- meaguiars deep crystal polish

- meguiars carnauba wax

- meguiars tech wax



i did all of this once by hand and the car looked very new new and spotless. however after 1 month and washing it every week it seems to have gone back to square 1 = showing swirls. i think its time i used a PC 7424 to try to get out the swirls.



i have been using meguiars tech wax to hide the swirls but after 1 wash it comes off and im sick of waxing it every 1-2 weeks as its only masking the problem despite looking good when freshly applied.



i have measured the paint thickness and it ranges from 12mm to 18mm all over the car...
Click to expand...



Welcome to Autopia! I had a scad of single stage black cars back in the day so I'll give you my $0.02. And there was a thread just recently where a member here did a great job on a black ss Supra.



Note that single stage black is a very soft paint (which is good for correction but bad for maintenance). Oh, and you might want to revisit your paint measuring as there's just no way a car's gonna hav 12-18mm of paint on it (think about it and you'll see what I mean ;) that'd be pretty thick for *house* paint ).



1) should i buy the perfect shine kit which consists of sonus products and klasse all in 1?
Click to expand...



I don't like to say "don't buy that", especially when it's being sold by those fine folks. It wouldn't be my first choice though.

2) is this kit equal in quality to the meguairs products ive used. or will it produce better results using machine application with PC?
Click to expand...



The Meguiars stuff you've used isn't even close to the stuff in that kit. While the Meguiar's Deep Cystal sytem has it's uses this stuff is in a whole 'nother class. You can do a lot better than the Deep Crystal stuff and better than the NXT too (at least IMO). But the general approach of using stuff like the Deep Crystal step #2 polish (which many would call a "glaze") and topping with a wax is very good for ss black. Specific comments:



Meg's Clay- if you like it just stick with it; Deep Crystal step #1 cleaner- a good but *very* gentle paint cleaner, not abrasive enough for what you're doing; Deep Crystal step #3 polish- an OK *nonabrasive* polish, not bad, I'd use it up and then get a better, but similar, product; Deep Crystal wax and NXT- too short-lived, not enough "depth" and "richness" for your paint, you can do a lot better.



3) is it worth adding the klasse high gloss sealant glaze to use after the klasses all in 1 and before the final coat of p21s carnauba wax?
Click to expand...



IMO the best thing about the Klasse system is the durability of the Sealant Glaze. But I wouldn't recommend the Klasse system for *your* application. And IMO the P21S isn't the best choice either, not for looks or durability or a trade-off between the two.



4) should i look to a range of other products like zaino or(whatever else people highly rate) or is sonus good enough!
Click to expand...



Zaino is another sealant (like Klasse) and I wouldn't use a sealant on your particular paint. It's not really a matter of something being "good enough" but rather how well suited a particular approach is to the given application. Sealants allow every tiny flaw to show, much more than waxes do, and they have a particular "look" that I don't like on ss black all that well; I'd rather have "depth" and "richness" on that paint and waxes are better for that IMO. And it's a *lot* easier to keep a finish looking good enough for wax as compared to sealants. Note that I use both and only have two (out of seven) vehicles that I use sealants on. I use waxes on both of my ss paint cars.



5)when i purchase the PC 7424, what pads and bonnets should i buy for it? the perfect shine kit consists of sfx-1 and sfx-2 which are abbrasive and i have no idea what bonnets/pads etc to use and in which order, how many coats etc?.
Click to expand...



This one I'll blow off ;) It's been answered so well, many times, that it's worth searching on...consider it reasearch and time well spent. Oh, OK...light cutting pad with the most aggressive abrasive polish; polishing pad with the same stuff and/or the milder abrasive polish; polishing or finishing pad with AIO; SG by hand; wax with polishing or finishing pad. The only bonnets I'd recommend are MF bonnets for buffing off the wax/sealant, and you might oughta do that by hand too.



More on sealants: I don't recommend sealants unless it's reasonable to expect that you can a) get a finish perfect and b) keep it that way (which is very, very difficult...I kid you not). I would not expect that on your car given its age and the ss black paint. Also, I simply don't like how sealants look on that paint compared to waxes.



I haven't used the SFX line, but whatever you use to polish with, I'd consider using a glaze (similar to the Meg's Deep Crystal step #2 polish but there are better ones) then a long-lating wax such as Collinite. Then concentrate on getting the wash/dry technique sorted out so you don't induce more marring. If you want to experiment with "better" waxes you can always do that later, but honestly, the choice of wax/etc. contributes a very small % of how good a car looks.



Again, the above is just *my* $0.02 and everybody with any experience will have an opinion on what you oughta do. BlkZ28Conv can give you a good argument for using sealants and I'm sure not gonna say he's wrong! But for your application I'd give it a lot of thought.



Oh, and I'd CD-test that Meg's wash mitt, they aren't all soft enough ;) No way *I* could wash your car without inducing marring unless I used a foamgun, but I could do a pretty decent job with a few sheepskin mitts if I went about it right.
 
yeh the one thing that sucks about single stage paints like my black supra is, it looks new and swirl-less with the tech wax except i hate the fact that it comes off after 1 wash. also i dont really like my meguiars wash mit, i feel as though a 2 dollar service station orange sponge does less marring!



maybe i should start using a car duster followed by quick detailer to delay washing my car for a few more weeks unless it gets rained on of course?



i did think about what the sealant would look like on single stage, as my gf has a black bmw 318 and the paint feels like a hard shell with the clearcoat whereas my car feels soft like u described.



my aim is to get rid of the swirls. i am pretty good at washing and maintainence.



accumulator you have pm.
 
giama said:
maybe i should start using a car duster followed by quick detailer to delay washing my car for a few more weeks unless it gets rained on of course?
Click to expand...



While others claim to do fine with such things, *I* can't use dusters, or QD a vehicle, without almost always causing *some* degree of marring. I simply don't touch the paint except when doing a full wash, with the exception of bird-bombs. And even then I'd much rather just wash the car if there's any way I can spare the time.
 
ok, what do you guys think about this?



how about i not use the perfect shine kit with all those products used above(klasse AIO and KSG and P21S) and instead just buy the Porter cable and use the SONUS SWIRLBUSTER POLISH with the ORANGE SWIRL BUSTER POLISHING PAD with those circular grooves to load up polish. i feel as though if i use sfx-1 that i will make the paint hazy and crap and struggle to get a good finish pre waxing!



is this a good alternative or are there better swirl removers for single stage paint?



then i can buy a better longer lasting wax to fill any left over hard to remove swirls and maintain it using the car duster and quick detailer?



yes/no? any more suggestions/ advice people? will be much appreciated!



why couldn't toyota finish the supra with metallic clearcoat paint dammit. only some colours like quicksilver have that finish!
 
IMO ss black looks a lot better than b/c black, perhaps that's why they used.



I'd be utterly astounded if that orange swirl-buster pad left your paint marring-free. I'd certainly plan to do a final polish with a more gentle pad. There have been some reviews of that pad that might be worth searching for.



And I'd wager big money that if you dust that paint, or use a QD to clean it between washes, you'll mar it up something awful. Yeah some people are happy with the results they get with those techniques, but I wouldn't put too much stock in that if I were you. One of the downsides to black cars is that they start to look dusty as soon as you pull them out of the garage...just the nature of the beast IMO and trying to keep them clean all the time is likely to lead to more problems.
 
i see where your coming from. but i think i can make the paint look much better going by some of the articles etc on this site. and yes after using that orange pad with swirl buster ive read its best to finish with white pad and finishing polish. decisions decisions!



ill host pics tomorow to show you current condition!
 
You might try the Megs 83 DACP with a white pad, then step up to a org light cutting pad if the swirls/oxidation aren't gone. Then finish with the meg's 80 speed glaze with a white polishing pad. Another compound option is Clearkote's compound.



For your past step products (lsp), on a ss black, I agree with what Accumulator said, stick to waxes. I'd go either the following:



ClearKote Vanilla moose mized with red moose (aka pink moose) or just red moose on it's own, and then follow up with Clearkote's Carnauba moose wax. best place to buy this is via the kit at danase.com for only $45, you get a quik shine, compound, vm or rm, and the cmw.





If going the meg's 2step 83/80 route, just finish with a good collinite 476s or 845 if you prefer the ease of applying the liquid instead.



Good vendors for all this are; Danase.com, autogeek.net, and properautocare.com, my favs.
 
giama said:
why couldn't toyota finish the supra with metallic clearcoat paint dammit. only some colours like quicksilver have that finish!
Click to expand...

giama, I have '91 ss red Supra, '93 cc anthracite Supra, and '95 ss black Supra. I wish Toyota did ss on anthracite because it looks like a POS thanks to cc failure while two with ss look great for paint this old.



I too tried Meguiar's 3-step by hand on my '91 ss years ago (per advice of Meguiar's Help Desk) and that was an exercise in frustration. After wasting time not making progress (it wasn't cleaning at all) I "threw it away" (to storage bin to be forgotten in there for a while) and got something more aggressive. Later, when I got polisher, I gave 3-step another try (had nothing to lose). Result was night and day difference (paint got shine back) and still even with the machine it wasn't taking swirls out. IMO that means 3-step was too gentle to be used on that car's paint for anything, especially by hand.
 
I'd look into Meguiars' pro line of polishes - they really do work miracles on SS paint. I'd suggest One Grand's Omega Glaze and Blitz Wax to finish it off with - those are two "old-school" products that will work great on your old-school paintjob.



BTW, SS black is amazing when done right.
 
thanks for the suggestions guys.



i was thinking of doing the same process like in this thread, but instead of using a rotary, i will use a porter cable 7424.



what do you think?



btw my swirls and paint is in better condition than this by significant amount so are some of the products used by this guy overkill for me? or will it just enable me to get a excellent finish with the PC considering my paint isnt as swirly as the one in this thread: >>>





http://autopia.org/forum/click-brag/85972-detailed-94-supra-tt-black.html
 
giama- that was the thread I was thinking of...but note that he's *very* good at this and not everyone could've pulled that off by a long shot.



Those products would work OK on ss black due to its softness, but I wouldn't go that route in your case.



IMO the Meguiar's route would be a good idea- I'm not a huge Meg's fan, but I do like it on single stage paint. The #83 for major correction as needed, then the #80 (or just that if the marring isn't bad). Then a glaze (Meg's #3/#5/#7/#81/Deep Crystal step #2 polish or the Omega glaze),then a wax....That Omega glaze + Blitz combo oughta work great. But I still like Collinite myself ;)
 
ok i took some pictures under my carport which has sun panels and when the light goes through the roof down onto the car it amplifies the swirls even more wheras if i had it in direct sunlight it wont show swirls as much.



if i use meguiars techwax alone it hides them but only up until the car gets washed and then it comes off!



ACCUMULATOR: im confused now, what are meguiars 83 & 80 called? i dont know if the products go by different labels in your country. also what are the glazes 3, 5, 7, 81 called? possible link?



car was dirty and covered in dust!



bonnet





bonnet from driver side - covered in dust hence the dull look with swirls







bonnet from 1/4 drivers side angle







whole car - cant see swirls from distance if your standing in right spot for the shade to hide it. :)







thanks for all the advice so far guys. now that you can see it, anyone care to provide a step by step for me with products and pads based on condition of car?

cheers
 
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