black sapphire bmw swirl correction....

M

miker2012

New member
hoping to get some input on removing light swirls from a new 2013 bmw black sapphire... car had sat on some lots for a few months and then got preped by my dealer and by the time i got it had a few light swirls

i want to clean up the swirls as best i can and then get some coats of gloss/wax on it

however, i am a newb when it comes to detailing and am very very concerned about working the clearcoat on a new vehicle and so i would like to go as gentle a polish as possible, maybe even just taking a bit of the edge off the minor swirls, and then filling in whats left for now w/filler or glaze and then in a year or so when there are swirls that i caused, maybe ill go a little heavier on the correction

anyway, i know there is debate about clay barring new vehicles but again, i am worried about marring the finish... should i?

as for polish, i was thinking maybe like mazerna sf 4000 or 4500 on the swirled areas to take the edge down with a DA... will that work? do i need a little more abrasion? how much more abrasive is wolfgang total swirl remover compared to 4500? which of these would be best?

again, i would like to be as gentle as possible

finally, i want to really protect the car well, before i use a carnuba wax, what is a good gloss/sealant for black car?... was thinking after the polish, using poor boys black hole to fill in defects

ill post some pics of the swirls tomorrow, there was no sun here today to pick them up

thanks for the suggestions
 
ok i found the polish comparison chart... the wolfgang is more abrasive than i want to go.... so its down to 4000/4500

thx
 
miker2012 said:
hoping to get some input on removing light swirls from a new 2013 bmw black sapphire... car had sat on some lots for a few months and then got preped by my dealer and by the time i got it had a few light swirls
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Black Sapphire is known to have a very hard clear coat that is very scratch, and polish, resistant. The down side is more aggressive polishes will have less effect and polishing may require more steps/time. The plus side is that once you remove the damage it will be far more resistant to getting new marks.

i want to clean up the swirls as best i can and then get some coats of gloss/wax on it
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Sounds like a great plan.


however, i am a newb when it comes to detailing and am very very concerned about working the clearcoat on a new vehicle and so i would like to go as gentle a polish as possible, maybe even just taking a bit of the edge off the minor swirls, and then filling in whats left for now w/filler or glaze and then in a year or so when there are swirls that i caused, maybe ill go a little heavier on the correction
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What type of machine will you be using?

Keep in mind that the BMW Black Sapphire paint is very hard.

Also, while thin by our standards (a sheet of paper thin), the clear coat on your BMW is thick in relative terms. Unless you are planning on intensive polishing ever 3 months or are going to wetsand the paint and compound it multiple times with a wool pad, rotary polisher, and aggressive compound, you needn't really worry about clear coat thickness - even if you are a complete newb.

I would recommend getting a heavier polish to start with and doing the job completely. However, if you do not feel comfortable, your plan will work, but to less of a degree.

anyway, i know there is debate about clay barring new vehicles but again, i am worried about marring the finish... should i?
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Yes. Claying done correctly will not marr the finish, or at least an marring will be extremely superficial and will easily polish out.

as for polish, i was thinking maybe like mazerna sf 4000 or 4500 on the swirled areas to take the edge down with a DA... will that work? do i need a little more abrasion? how much more abrasive is wolfgang total swirl remover compared to 4500? which of these would be best?
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Based on my experience with the hardness of BMW's Black Sapphire paint, you will need something more aggressive. WG Total Swirl Remover is a great starting point for light-to-medium swirls on this hard paint.

again, i would like to be as gentle as possible
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While caution and discretion is the better part of valor, you have plenty of clear coat and these polishes are designed to work on clear coat. Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover is really mild when compared to an aggressive compound and will not compromise clear coat thickness unless you polish the same area over and over and over for a day.

finally, i want to really protect the car well, before i use a carnuba wax, what is a good gloss/sealant for black car?... was thinking after the polish, using poor boys black hole to fill in defects
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It sounds like the BLACKFIRE Wet Ice Over Fire combo kit (Wet Diamond Sealant and Midnight Sun Carnauba Wax) will be the perfect combination for you. If you polish correctly, the glaze will offer little to no benefit with this combo and may negatively affect durability.

ill post some pics of the swirls tomorrow, there was no sun here today to pick them up

thanks for the suggestions
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Our pleasure, welcome to AF!!:bigups
 
My BMW is BSM. Todd is 100% correct. You want WG TSR and orange Lake Country CCS pads. This combo is what I used and seems to work on my car where others fail. It just works and is easy and user friendly.

When my car was swirled I used and old school 7424 to get rid of them, so you don't need a fancy machine. A new PC or Griots will be fine.

The good news about this paint is it finished pretty well. You can follow up with WG Finishing Glaze. Its a fairly easy paint to work with IME.

I've used SF 4500 on this car as well to boost the gloss, it does that, but won't touch any defects. I don't thin SF4000 is "strong enough" to do much either.

Forget "covering up swirls". Get rid of them, do it right, and maintain it right. Its not hard, just time consuming.
 
thanks so much everyone.... great help

i will use the WG TSW

here are some pics

swanicyouth... i would like your thoughts on how these pics resembled yours

todd helme... thx so much for the post, very confidence inspiring.... my local retailer has the midnight sun ivory carnuba but not the wet diamond sealant... is there another combo good for black cars?

thanks
 
IMG_1263_zps3f76e4f5.jpg
 
ok this pic above shows the damage quite well... there are several spots that are swirled just like this

i have decided on the DA polisher and the wolfgang total swirl remover

still trying to decide on sealant and waxes... is there perhaps a manzerma or wolfgang sealant/wax to use? my local retailer has few blackfire products

thanks
 
That really isn't too bad at all.......

IMHO - since you have decided to use tsr, my choice would be tsr on orange pad, then follow it up with BF tpns on black pad, on stubborn areas maybe use a white pad.

Then Black Ice, followed up with bfcs

then get your sun glasses on
 
if i decided to use a flex 3401 instead of the traditional DA, would the adivce above change as per the polish/pad to use?

the reason i say this is.... i was planning to buy a PC but i have a few cars that i will be detailing that are bad to very badly damaged once the 335 is done... a regular DA is going to be futile on the badly damamged car and after researching all options, it seems like the 3401 might be the best way for me to go
 
miker2012 said:
todd helme... thx so much for the post, very confidence inspiring.... my local retailer has the midnight sun ivory carnuba but not the wet diamond sealant... is there another combo good for black cars?

thanks
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I would still go with the BLACKFIRE wet ice over fire combo, which combines the sealant and wax. You can order it from our store sight, Autopia-CarCare.com. There is a free shipping over 75 dollar promo (plus 15% off) that ends today so you are not limited by your local retailers limited inventory!!!
 
miker2012 said:
thanks so much everyone.... great help

i will use the WG TSW

here are some pics

swanicyouth... i would like your thoughts on how these pics resembled yours

todd helme... thx so much for the post, very confidence inspiring.... my local retailer has the midnight sun ivory carnuba but not the wet diamond sealant... is there another combo good for black cars?

thanks
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Those swirls aren't bad at all. If I recall, my car was much worse. Here are some pics.

An isolated defect I picked up:

vypenumu.jpg


Now, you can see, that defect is nasty. Isolated, but much deeper than your average swirl.

A Griot's and some LC HT pads with TSR to the rescue:

vujy8equ.jpg


Polishing:

vasy6e6y.jpg


Eraser wipedown:

4uma9eta.jpg


Defect gone:

vusu7y6e.jpg


2ysezase.jpg


deqehezy.jpg


Random pics:

y8unyhej.jpg


dumu5ahu.jpg


savana6u.jpg


y5upa8e6.jpg


What local retail carries BF MS???

The products I like to use are WG TSR and WG FG or Menzerna SF4500 to follow it up. I use LC pads: orange, then white or black. Or, the Cool Wave pads I won on Autopia.

I dunno about using the Flex. I've never used one, but not everyone who buys one is thrilled with it. Some people have a hard time with it. I like my Griots 6" DA. But, if I had to replace it I would get a Rupes 15.

If I had to work on "bad cars" I'd probably look into microfiber pads for a Rupes or Griots. The Flex 3401 seems like a great machine to get rid of defects, but I don't know if I would want it as my only machine. But if you go with the Flex, the pads would/could be the same, just be sure to get the correct size, or you may want to look into LC Hybrid pads.

I've tried several "waxes". I'm currently liking Bouncers's Capture the Rapture. But, BlackIce and Midnight Sun seem to be a favorite among many.
 
Todd Helme said:
I would still go with the BLACKFIRE wet ice over fire combo, which combines the sealant and wax. You can order it from our store sight, Autopia-CarCare.com. There is a free shipping over 75 dollar promo (plus 15% off) that ends today so you are not limited by your local retailers limited inventory!!!
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thx.. way ahead of you todd... I am placing a huge order at autopia-carcare as we speak for that exact reason, much easier to get it all from one site and great prices too

thx for the help
 
swanicyouth... you are right, no local retailers carries BF, by local I meant eshine.ca (I live in Canada)

they have a decent selection of stuff but not the exact stuff I want so gonna order from autopia instead

thx so much for the advice and pics.... very helpful... your car paint looks awesome, SB has soooo much depth when its clean

I am gonna go with the WG tsr and fg for the paint and then the bf combo for sealent/wax

ill let you know how it turns out
 
Todd Helme said:
Make sure to let us know how it turns out!!!!!
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will do... thx for your help, just ordered a ton of stuff from the autopia store... watched a bunch of your videos tonight and have a few questions

with the blackfire midnight sun canauba wax, should I only apply by hand? can I apply it with GG 6" w/ red pad?

as for pad size, I ordered all 6.5" pads for the flex, a few ccs pads and a few hydro tech... should I have gone with 5.5"
 
miker2012 said:
will do... thx for your help, just ordered a ton of stuff from the autopia store... watched a bunch of your videos tonight and have a few questions

with the blackfire midnight sun canauba wax, should I only apply by hand? can I apply it with GG 6" w/ red pad?

as for pad size, I ordered all 6.5" pads for the flex, a few ccs pads and a few hydro tech... should I have gone with 5.5"
Click to expand...

As far as pad size, the 6.5 inch pads will work great with the FLEX.

You CAN apply BFMS with a machine; a red pad would be the correct choice. Remember that BFMS is a wipe on, wipe off wax, so you do not want to let it dry. Apply to a small section, then wipe off and repeat. I personally like using premium waxes, such as BFMS, by hand as I feel it is just part of the experience.
 
well I have begun the paint correction process....

I will have a full write up with before after pics with all the products that I bought from autopia online store when completed of course

so after a lot of cleanup and claying on my 335xi, got started on the worst part of the car, the trunk... since the car sat on a lot for almost a year, the trunk collected a lot of enviro damage and dirt and whatnot and the paint had swirls, light scratches and these distortions in the paint



this before pic really does not show the swirls that well and nor the isolated scratches on the trunk... these isolated scratches are in a circular pattern, done by hand or perhaps buffing a dirty surface, not sure.. to see these isolated scratches, you have to bend down slightly and look at the paint from more of a ground level and then they show up

in any event, I took the flex 3401 w/ tangerine pad and hit the trunk with wg tsr and then used a white pad with the wg fg.... this made the trunk look amazing and got rid of 95% of the defects, and the results were incredible on the sapphire black, the finish looks spectacular... I did probably 4-5 passes with the tangerine and 3-4 with the white, used light to moderate pressure, used speeds 5-6

however, there is one small section where a couple of the isolated scratches remain slightly visible and I am not sure what to do next... these scratches dont look any different than the others I removed, yet they remain on the paint... what do I do next? same setup but more pressure? or do I need to step up the cut?

if I need to step up pad, I have a cyan and a mf cutting pad... if I need to step up polish, I have fg400

thoughts?
 
If its a small section, I would switch to 3" pads and go over it a few times. If its a big section, I keep yellow LC CCS pads around for such occasions. You can use a compound of your choice, yellow pads, MF pads, more passes, etc....

Just don't go crazy. You have to use your judgement. If they are deep scratches, all you may be able to do is improve them. Its better to have "improved scratches" than burnt clean coat. Ask me how I know?

We all have a few spots on our cars that aren't perfect. Once you get a little confidence, sometimes you get the "I can fix anything" feeling - so you have to be careful.

Glad the TSR worked out.
 
thx.... I will be careful and I agree that we can get carried away, especially when we are getting good results

here is an after pic of the trunk from above....

 
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