BFWD - 1st use along with uncontrolled rambling

H

hook

New member
I finally got under the hood of the Maxima last night to clean, but was afraid to use many of the degreasing cleaners that I have access to in retail stores because most of them say they shouldn't be used on aluminum. Of course, the Maxima has an aluminum engine, with some pretty parts exposed and I dont' want to muck them up.



I used a double-strong solution of Meguiar's gold-class car wash, which helped but didn't completely clean everything.



Suggestions? Brad, I'm also doing the Lexus. Where can I get Wurths for the plastic under both the hoods? And what can I put over the white enamel lettering on the engine block of the Lexus?



thanks much,

Andy
 
*somebody* has got to have an idea of what I can use on the engine of the Maxima....



help!



Andy
 
Today's engines do not leak massive amounts of oil, etc.



There is no need to worry about your aluminum engine block, hell, most are aluminum anymore.



Have the engine cool, I mean cool, and then wet with the water hose.



For you, no need to use my Omni product or any other really, just plain old 409 or something like that.



Where most go wrong, it spray it on a hot or warm engine, or spray it and expect it to clean "RIGHT NOW", damn-it!!



Let the cleaner dwell (set) and then agitate with a soft brush, an old wash mitt.



Rinse, and stay cool, do some other things, clean the interior, apply some fancy named protectant paint product.



Re-open the hood (excuse me, for others in the world, the bonnet) and when dry, spray some of the cleaner on an old towel and touch up that which you missed.



It is really that simple with the new technology used to produce engines today.



Just one caution, don't spray a "dressing" into the engine compartment, you could kill the O2 sensor.



If you wish to dress the black vinyl and rubber parts, do so with a water based dressing, any PDMS and wipe the parts.
 
Why wait for the engine compartment and the engine to dry off??



How can you tell on a wet engine where you missed or were heavy deposits?



When dry, you can see, the cleaner has got most of it, just need to be able to see what reguires that last little "detail" cleaning.
 
I never use water or attempt any "mass" cleaning. I take one small component at a time and concentrate on it until completion. My favorite, and most used, engine cleaning solvent is aerosol brake cleaning spray. This solvent on a medical swab will literally suck oil and dirt out of any tight space. I have used it for years. It is the best bet to spray dirt and grime out of all the pours in the aluminum. This makes a huge difference. Try it. Only after this, if required, is when I use aluminum polishes such as Semichrome or Blue Magic. Rough castings can easily be filed smooth, scratches can be removed with 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper and buffed with polish. For show engines I replace all the appropriate nuts and washers with stainless steel. The shine is much greater and it is maintainence free.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=781637&a=13475239&p=51601592
 
Ah, words from the wise!



Many thanks to you both, I now have an approach. This is a daily driver, but I still like it to look nice (good feeling when you open the hood and the engine is all shiny) so I think I'll compromise between the two approaches on the Maxima (dirtier to start with). Good old 409 per Ron's post, then when I get the urge do a section at a time to dress up. I did see the posts about the sensitivity of the O2 sensor, Ron, but good reminder not only for me but others who might be following the thread.



On the Lexus, which is already clean (I believe they steamed it before I bought it) I'm going to go right to the "sectional" make-it-glow approach.



I'll post pics when I get there - thanks again!



blue skies,

Andy



[OT] hey Brad, I'm originally from St. Louis & still have family there. If I ever come through I'd love to see your garage if you permit drooling tourists....[/OT]
 
That is awesome, but not very practical for a vehicle driven everyday, a person that has to show up at work and keep the lady or husband in the loop once in awhile.



Water will not hurt todays mass produced engines, etc ,except the new Vette, watch getting the front part of the engine wet below the water pump area, very water senstive computor sensor there and just don't get it wet.



Using the process I laid out, my old T-Bird had 113,00 miles on it when I turned it over to a new hire local salesman, it looked like it just came off the line.



My "SopranoMobile" now has 20,000 on it in 11 months and you can eat off the engine, sure some minor water spots,(cause I lazy about that, but will clean up just fine) but this is a vehicle that goes on the road, to the east coast, to Florida,to Detroit once a month, to KC, etc and looks like it also just came off the line.



I appreciate your ability to take the loving care of those fine collectable vehicles in your stable, but my input is a bit more for those who have to use their vehicles everyday and still make the payments.
 
I disagree with your point of component detailing not being practical. If your basis is on time-spent then you would be very surprised at how quickly you can go through an engine and detail using my methods...with superior results. In fact I am confident that in the the same amount of time it takes one to water wash, scrub and dry an engine I could detail using my method and reach "equal" results in the same timeframe.

Given just a bit more time, component detailing will far surpass the quality of results possible with washing. This next step is where people might not like to invest extra time. But the difference will be noticible...especially to the more scrutinizing eyes of most on this forum.

True Concours results cannot be achieved without taking it a step further as eluded to earlier. But, once either of these two higher levels of detailing are reached, it is <strong class='bbc'>far, far,[/b] easier to maintain the car to near perfection.

Some of my "show" cars have accumulated thousands of miles a year driving to shows throughout the USA. I have driven my cars everywhere. Work, fun and concours. They are not pampered like one would think. Yet it takes very little to keep them looking great and up to true JCNA Concours judging levels.

It all depends on ones goals. I assume that most on this board are more detail-oriented than the average public. I just want people to know that reaching a high level of detailing may take some extra effort but subsequent maintenance is a piece of cake.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Ron Ketcham [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Just one caution, don't spray a "dressing" into the engine compartment, you could kill the O2 sensor.
[/b]</blockquote>
Could you provide the "why" on that one? Since the O2 sensor is dowstream of combustion, any product fumes pulled into the intake will be subject to 1000-1500' temperatures and a fairly substantial explosion in the combustion chamber before making it to the O2 sensor. At that point, I doubt there's much in the way of chemical residue that could affect it.

Now, if what you meant to say is that a dressing could foul the mass airflow sensor (found under the hood, usually on or near the filter on MAF-controlled cars), that makes more sense, but still a longshot, IMHO, unless you really go nuts with dressing. Fumes pulled through the filter will have little effect on the Karman Vortex bluff body or the hot wire (depending on the type of MAF-sensor). I suppose if you doused the harness and connector to the sensor, you might do some damage . . .

Can you clarify, please?

Thanks,
Tort
 
I'll never show my cars...unless showing it to friends or family counts :)



But I've discovered with the Lexus, which I've slowly tried to bring up the shine on with the "single section" approach (exterior), that I can actually pay more attention to it because I can do just one area and don't have to commit large blocks of time. For instance, last night I spent about an hour on the dash and interior vinyl, and used armoral on the wheelwells (gotta get rid of it somehow). But I've also spent time doing just the hood, or a door panel, whatever. it' snice because it does all come together, it's more thorough than if I tried to do it all at once, and I can spend as little or as much time as I want.



Anyway, I'm rambling. I guess I'm saying that anyone who wants to end up with above-average results and has limited time might want to try Brad's approach.



blue skies,

Andy
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by TortoiseAWD [/i]
<strong class='bbc'><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Ron Ketcham [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Just one caution, don't spray a "dressing" into the engine compartment, you could kill the O2 sensor.
[/b]</blockquote>
Could you provide the "why" on that one? Since the O2 sensor is dowstream of combustion, any product fumes pulled into the intake will be subject to 1000-1500' temperatures and a fairly substantial explosion in the combustion chamber before making it to the O2 sensor. At that point, I doubt there's much in the way of chemical residue that could affect it.

Now, if what you meant to say is that a dressing could foul the mass airflow sensor (found under the hood, usually on or near the filter on MAF-controlled cars), that makes more sense, but still a longshot, IMHO, unless you really go nuts with dressing. Fumes pulled through the filter will have little effect on the Karman Vortex bluff body or the hot wire (depending on the type of MAF-sensor). I suppose if you doused the harness and connector to the sensor, you might do some damage . . .

Can you clarify, please?

Thanks,
Tort
[/b]</blockquote>Just passing the information that has been released by Ford, DCX and GM through their TSB's.

They are the ones who state this, you will have to search out the TSB's, but I know from a seminar I did with the lead trouble shooter for Ford that this is a large issue, with dealers replacing O2's way beyond norm, were found to have the get ready guys spraying the engines, a single spec of the dimethal silicone fluid finds it's way to the sensor and goodbye.

The water based PDMS dressing do not have such a drastic effect according to these people.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<strong class='bbc'>Just passing the information that has been released by Ford, DCX and GM through their TSB's.

They are the ones who state this, you will have to search out the TSB's, but I know from a seminar I did with the lead trouble shooter for Ford that this is a large issue, with dealers replacing O2's way beyond norm, were found to have the get ready guys spraying the engines, a single spec of the dimethal silicone fluid finds it's way to the sensor and goodbye.

The water based PDMS dressing do not have such a drastic effect according to these people. [/b]</blockquote>
After doing some poking around online, I turned up this Ford TSB:
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

EXHAUST SYSTEM-SILICONE CONTAMINATION OF EXHAUST GAS OXYGEN (EGO) SENSORS-THEY ARE COMMONLY FOUND IN LIQUID "SILICONE RUBBER" SEALANTS AND GASKET MATERAIL-WHENSERVICE IS PERFORMED ON ENGINE, ONLY USE NEW LOW SILICONE VOLATILITY SEALANT (E8AZ-19562-A, SPECIFICATION ESE-M4G195-B) WHERE SPECIFIED-ALSO REPLACE CONTAMINATED EGO SENSOR IF REQUIRED</blockquote>If I understand it correctly, the problem referred to isn't silicone dressing of any sort; it's silicone RTV gasket sealer. Is the silicone used in RTV the same as that in protectants that we use for detailing?

Regardless, I'm surprised at the frailty of the design, if <strong class='bbc'>fumes[/b] that have passed through the filter <strong class='bbc'>and[/b] gone through the combustion cycle can take out the O2 sensor. The ppm required to foul the sensor must be tiny. I guess I should make sure not to break wind near O2-sensor equipped vehicles in the future. :D

Tort
 
I'd been meaning to pick up a bottle of BFWD for a while, I usually make a list and wait for a sale and buy a lot of supplies at once to save on shipping. I'm pretty well stocked up and there hasn't been anything in particular I'd needed for a while. Then one of the vendors I get e-mail alerts from had a sealant sale that effectively zeroed out the shipping charges and threw in a couple of nice MFs into the deal so I pulled the trigger.

Like most everyone else I just gotta try out a new toy as soon as it's out of the box. The 4x4 was due for it's pre-winter ritual so I figured I'd use the BF and see what everyone's raving about. I had a full plate this weekend though so I figured I'd do one panel just for grins. We all know how THAT usually works out!

I did an IPA wipe on one panel of the hood to remove the current LSP, 845IW, that'd been on for almost 6 months with an occasional spritz of Megs UQW. Everything still had a good luster (no, not you, Bill!) and was beading nicely. The hood showed no defects so I clayed and cleaned with Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion.

This also gave me a chance to try out the Riccardo yellow somebody swapped for something I wanted to get rid of. FWIW, the Riccardo is overrated, IMO. It's a bit sticky for my tastes and if you've got any serious contaminants like tar you've got to work harder than with Clay Magic, Megs or Mothers clays. I like the Riccardo blue though. I'm thinking many want it because you can't buy it in the US. ::::shrug:::

The Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion was also something that I swapped for a look-see. Nice, easy to use product that goes on and off quick and easy and leaves a super-smooth glossy finish. Works about the same as the comparable P21S and S100 offerings and goes a long, long way. I only had a couple of onces and it was enough to do the whole, full-sized, extended cab truck. (you can see where this is going, can't you?)

So the hood panel is prepped and I crack open the BFWD. As advertised it goes on quick and easy with a MF pad and a little goes a long way. I left half the panel to haze completely and just did a WOWO with the other half. No discernable difference in removal, IMO. Both methods came off clean and easy with no smearing leaving a bright, incredibly shining and SLICK finish. Yep, this stuff is as slick as everybody says!

I've been using 845IW as my LSP of choice for over 20 years. I'm always giving something a look-see but I always come back to 845 for it's stunning shine, longevity, ease of use and cost effectiveness. And it's about as slick as anything else I've ever used. Until I started sniffing around sealants.

Last fall I used Jetseal 109 for the first time and was impressed with it's shine, slickness and ease of use. It looked especially good on the clearcoated aluminum wheels. I did a little longevity test on the wheels and left one with just Jetseal, topped one with 845, topped another with 915 and did the 4th with standalone PB's Wheel Sealant. All had a comparable look although the Jetsealed wheel topped with 845 seemed to have the highest shine, was the slickest and lasted the longest. The PB's Wheel Sealant was the loser all the way around, lost it's slickness after a few washings. The 915 lasted as well as the 845 but didn't seem to have the same luster. The Jetsealed wheel didn't retain it's slickness near as well as the ones topped with Collinite.

Back to the BFWD...... as we all know, one thing leads to another and by nightfall the entire truck was clayed, Pinnacled and Blackfired :thumbup: Did I really think I was going to be able to stop with just one panel??? Same old story, once you get started seeing results you just can't stop. :D Now I'm on the hook to finish the rest of the job.

BFWD is indeed a slick, easy to use product. I don't know that it's perceptibly slicker than 845 though. :::shrug::: The shine, at least on white, is a tossup, IMO. It is a bit easier to remove than 845 though as 845 finishes best with a final wipedown to remove any residual smearing that's especially noticeable on dark colors. I've always liked that about 845 though because it seems like the more you wipe it the better it gets.

So naturally, I couldn't leave well enough alone. I went back to that first hood panel and topped with 845 and there appears to be a noticeable difference you can see and feel. Yeah, they're both slicker n snot. However the 845 topped panel seems to be deeper and feel 'thicker', if you know what I mean. It just looks more... well, substantial and deep! :::shrug::::

Since I've got a fresh LSP I fully expect about a weeks worth of rain. It always does. I'll get a chance to compare beading and especially how they compare after some dirty drives. One of the things I appreciate with 845 is how the truck never looks dirty after driving in the rain. Everything blows right off nicely and the dirt never seems to diminish the shine. I dunno if I'm gonna top the rest of the finish with 845 yet, we'll have to wait and see. Nice thing about it is if I DO it'll only take about half an hour to do the whole truck by hand :D

The GF's black Hyundai SUV is next up later in the month. I expect BFWD to really show it's worth on black after a full correction detail!

TL
 
Thanks for the write-up. I am about to my fall detail and plan on finishing it with BFWD and 845. I think you just helped me make up my mind.:clap:
 
Well done and thanks for a thorough review.

Too bad you didn't like the Riccardo (it's my fave in terms of clay - because it is more maliable than most).

As for the 845IW... I remember using it in a wax test I did some time ago and it was the one product which almost got better with time. I remember comparing it to NXT 2.0 when I first applied them and NXT being slightly slicker, but the 845IW closing the gap everyday.

845iw is my favorite of the Collinite lsps, but in my findings, I've never found it to be as slick as Wet Diamond.
 
MB Fan said:
Sounds great - would love to see pictures if you have them...
Click to expand...

Luster said:
Thanks for the write up TL! Did you take any pics?:D
Click to expand...

Pics, pics, pics..... you'd think youse guys have never seen shiny paint! Remember, I'm the guy that does a Show n Shine without pics. :D

Actually, there wasn't any point in 'befores' as everything was in primo shape to begin with. Only two very minor spots of correction on the whole vehicle. As for afters, it was dark out when I finished and this thing really deserves a sunny day to capture the gleaming. Probably ought to have one around here around April or so...... the weeklong rain I forecast due to now having a pristine white ride just started.. :-[

Mebbe I'll pull it out in the driveway for some night beading pics. "It was a dark and stormy night."

OK, here's a couple from last New Year's detail. Use your imagination, it looks the same. :D

IMG_0408Small.jpg


IMG_0414Small.jpg




TL
 
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