mikenap
New member
Brad B. said:
Sorry Brad, we crossed posts. But I'm only giving back what I got. I'm officially done with this thread.
Automatic Car-Wash Horror Story
- Thread starter vicious28shine
- Start date
Sorry Brad, we crossed posts. But I'm only giving back what I got. I'm officially done with this thread.
Nth Degree
New member
jfelbab said:This provides some of the specifics to the studies.
http://villagecarwash.net/pdf/TexasCarWashStudy.pdf
Neither agree nor disagree with the study, just providing a link.
Thanks for the link, Jim. Interesting. And I agree. Don't agree or disagree.
There is definitely credence to the point that most hoses do not provide enough volume or pressure to effectively sweep away dirt. And someone who knows nothing about proper methods is likely to do more harm than good. But we still have the question:
What is the safest wash method? How does a mechanical carwash compare to that standard?
One part of a mechanical carwash that cannot be accounted for is the human factor. The wash itself may be safe, but the person maintaining it or drying the vehicle afterward may cancel that out. See the following link.
Woman complains about car wash service :: WRAL.com
I contacted the news station as well as Monty Rast of Auto Bell to try to resolve this. I was prepared to offer a free correction in exchange for a follow up by the station to show the result and clear the name of Auto Bell at the same time. (See. We aren't totally against automated washes.) The swirls are clearly buffer trails and highly unlikely to be caused by a single, or even several runs through the wash. But I post this here because of what they show in the 2:00-2:15 mark. I never heard back from either one.
I read all the time, in numerous forums, about people who took their cars to the dealership for service only to get it back swirled by the complimentary wash. Presumably automated washes in most cases.
So I am still interested in putting the 2 bucket method with a pressure washer by a "proper" detailer up against a standard car wash. I have a neighbor who recently purchased a used Lexus RX350 in black. It is pretty heavily swirled and is rarely driven. I am thinking of approaching him about using it for the test. If I do it I will post the results.
jfelbab
New member
Something I had just posted in another forum...
The study is correct in it's assumptions. The average Joe doesn't wash his car well at all. As an example, my neighbor to the west drives a black BMW. He washes his car with a small, grungy two gallon plastic bucket that I've seen him use in the garden, with some dish wash soap and an old wash cloth. The same wash cloth is used every couple weeks and is not laundered between washings. He claims it gets clean in the soapy water. He dries his car with an old bath towel that only gets laundered when it gets stiff. His black BMW is grey in the afternoon sun due to all the swirls. This is your typical home car wash folks. Look around at your friends and neighbors and I'd bet you need not look far to find similar home car washing techniques displayed. For these types, the automatic carwash would be less damaging.
If the study were to compare our washing techniques, I'm also equally sure that ours would win the test. We all, at least I hope we all, wash our cars using the two bucket method with quality car wash, properly measured, and use clean plush wash mitts, or some equally high quality method. I also hope we all dry our cars using the sheeting method and then blow off, or blot off, the remaining water with a clean waffle-weave micro-fiber towel or two. We are not the target audience for this study nor for the automated carwash industry.
That said, I live in the snow belt where I drive in snow/salt/sand, in below freezing temps, often below zero, for around three months out of every year. I use an automatic wash in the winter. I use a touch-less wash to get the salt, sand, and winter crud off the car and the underbody flush also is a plus. I do take the car home immediately after and give it a wipe-down with M135 (UWD) and then D156 (UQW) after these washes and I've noticed no additional swirling. I'm reminded that this season is fast approaching as it was 35 degrees here yesterday morning.
Further evidence of the average Joe's... Both of my sons, who grew up watching me detail cars, often 2-3 a week, own black BMW's. I don't believe they have ever washed their cars themselves nor do they have the proper materials and washing supplies to do so. They run their cars through tunnel washes and the cars come out swirled. When I speak to them about the right way to maintain their cars they just get a blank look and it is in one ear and out the other. They don't have the time or the interest in caring for their cars. They don't wash or wax their cars. They rather have someone detail their cars and after a couple years trade them for new. I'd guess the majority of people are like this.
For these types, the automatic car wash is likely a much better way to go, and I suspect this was the target for the study.
The study is correct in it's assumptions. The average Joe doesn't wash his car well at all. As an example, my neighbor to the west drives a black BMW. He washes his car with a small, grungy two gallon plastic bucket that I've seen him use in the garden, with some dish wash soap and an old wash cloth. The same wash cloth is used every couple weeks and is not laundered between washings. He claims it gets clean in the soapy water. He dries his car with an old bath towel that only gets laundered when it gets stiff. His black BMW is grey in the afternoon sun due to all the swirls. This is your typical home car wash folks. Look around at your friends and neighbors and I'd bet you need not look far to find similar home car washing techniques displayed. For these types, the automatic carwash would be less damaging.
If the study were to compare our washing techniques, I'm also equally sure that ours would win the test. We all, at least I hope we all, wash our cars using the two bucket method with quality car wash, properly measured, and use clean plush wash mitts, or some equally high quality method. I also hope we all dry our cars using the sheeting method and then blow off, or blot off, the remaining water with a clean waffle-weave micro-fiber towel or two. We are not the target audience for this study nor for the automated carwash industry.
That said, I live in the snow belt where I drive in snow/salt/sand, in below freezing temps, often below zero, for around three months out of every year. I use an automatic wash in the winter. I use a touch-less wash to get the salt, sand, and winter crud off the car and the underbody flush also is a plus. I do take the car home immediately after and give it a wipe-down with M135 (UWD) and then D156 (UQW) after these washes and I've noticed no additional swirling. I'm reminded that this season is fast approaching as it was 35 degrees here yesterday morning.
Further evidence of the average Joe's... Both of my sons, who grew up watching me detail cars, often 2-3 a week, own black BMW's. I don't believe they have ever washed their cars themselves nor do they have the proper materials and washing supplies to do so. They run their cars through tunnel washes and the cars come out swirled. When I speak to them about the right way to maintain their cars they just get a blank look and it is in one ear and out the other. They don't have the time or the interest in caring for their cars. They don't wash or wax their cars. They rather have someone detail their cars and after a couple years trade them for new. I'd guess the majority of people are like this.
For these types, the automatic car wash is likely a much better way to go, and I suspect this was the target for the study.
Bill D
Hooked For Life
jfelbab said:
A really sad thing is that there are mobile car wash guys who people actually make appointments with to come to their house and probably pay fairly decent money to wash their car like this.
So many people simply don't know any better. Some people actually think swirls are just part of the paint. :shocked:Envious Eric
New member
Damn Buda, do you have a day job? or is defending your position on a "non-relevant" forum your day to day pay? Seems like all you do is brag about how good a car wash location is and defend that position to a majority of people on here who dont agree, wont agree, and hold their car care to a higher level than what your car wash offers...when does it end with you?
why not just leave....again!?!?!
why not just leave....again!?!?!
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
buda said:
Richie Carbone said:
buda said:
Shiny Lil Detlr said:
buda said:
toyotaguy said:
1st and foremost, I respect & appreciate each and every one of you for your professional accomplishments, strong willed views, participation here and who you are as a person who mutually shares the common interest of detailing, but these attacks have gone way too far and are clearly against the rules. I’m dedicated to building this community so that it can not only help our members, but also the detailing industry as a whole. But, what I don’t want is Autopia being viewed as a disrespectfully argumentative place that people are turned off by. It certainly is challenging by needing to constantly make public reprimands in an effort to maintain a truly unbiased forum. We are all mature professionals who are obviously passionate about our beliefs, but crossing the line looking down on people and making attacks like these is uncalled for and is out of professional character. I’m all for heated debates in the sake of building a positive outcome, but this type of interaction is counter-productive to the community and is personally not needed. If you can’t get your point across without posting something that may not be viewed as respectful, then just not post it. Start thinking about whom the audience is that’s reading these threads and pre-examine if what you’re posting is consummate of a positive environment. If not, then there is really no need to post it. End.
Envious Eric
New member
agreed David, but look at the common denominator in all the flair ups...its one person! He is bringing his "ideas" into every single started thread even when not asked, not wanted, and sometimes not even the topic! (like this thread here...he is way out of line in this one!)
whatever...where is the ignore button! DONE!
whatever...where is the ignore button! DONE!
Gentlemen:
After all the mudslinging at automatic carwashing and myself, I went back to the original post make by Nick regarding car washing and it is amazing how we all got off track.
Nick was saying that automatic car washes damage cars in the most horrible way.
If you recall I simply disagreed with his contentions and "the fight was on."
To substantiante my position I offered as evidence the car wash study conducted by the Technological University of Munich for Mercedes Benz and followed up by a study commissioned by the International Carwash Association having the University of Texas due a similiar study showing that, at the least, handwashing could be far more damaing to the paint finish than washing in an automatic car wash and, again, why?
This seems to have gotten lost in all of the mudslinging. The original point was not "which is better, handwashing or machine washing," but whether automatic washing damages car finishes.
In one's passion to stand by their position they can sometimes get off track as happened in this case.
For the record, I would completely agree that if one hand washed a car with two buckets and plenty of shampoo and water it would no doubt be a better job than what you get from an automatic.
But that is relative too, in terms of what the customer expects.
Just some well intentioned thoughts
Bud Abraham
PS: Will be posting more information on the tests in another post titled, "Mercedes Benz Wash Test"
After all the mudslinging at automatic carwashing and myself, I went back to the original post make by Nick regarding car washing and it is amazing how we all got off track.
Nick was saying that automatic car washes damage cars in the most horrible way.
If you recall I simply disagreed with his contentions and "the fight was on."
To substantiante my position I offered as evidence the car wash study conducted by the Technological University of Munich for Mercedes Benz and followed up by a study commissioned by the International Carwash Association having the University of Texas due a similiar study showing that, at the least, handwashing could be far more damaing to the paint finish than washing in an automatic car wash and, again, why?
This seems to have gotten lost in all of the mudslinging. The original point was not "which is better, handwashing or machine washing," but whether automatic washing damages car finishes.
In one's passion to stand by their position they can sometimes get off track as happened in this case.
For the record, I would completely agree that if one hand washed a car with two buckets and plenty of shampoo and water it would no doubt be a better job than what you get from an automatic.
But that is relative too, in terms of what the customer expects.
Just some well intentioned thoughts
Bud Abraham
PS: Will be posting more information on the tests in another post titled, "Mercedes Benz Wash Test"