are you happy with Obama's progress so far?

To the OT, No. Health care, well I take a sort of Darwinistic view of the subject. Access to quality health care is not a right.
 
brianshaeffer said:
It's sad to see how misinformed people are about the state of health care in the US. Privatization has encouraged the advances in technology and increased life spans. We lead the world in innovation (in heath care) as a result. Public health care will certainly reverse this trend, bringing us down to the lowest common denominator with the rest of the world. You might get health care in Cuba, but it's quality is no where near what people get in the US. I've also talked to many Canadians who have come to the US for care that they would have to wait for months to receive in Canada.
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Even if that were true, that privitization encourages the best advancements in medicine, it doesn't mean you will live longer. What good is advancement in medicine, if you can't get your insurance company to pay for the treatment. Have you ever been to Cuba and seen their health care system ? As for Canadians going down south, yes, it happens in very rare instances, where a procedure so rare has to be performed that an American surgeon is more qualified (government pays for this btw), or yes, for certain electives. But you know what ? I don't feel bad that the person who threw out their knee while dirt biking has to wait 3 weeks for surgery because someone with a blocked artery needs to get into the OR first. It's called priority, and when your life is at stake, vs waiting a short while for something non-life threatening, I can't argue with that.



rdorman said:
To the OT, No. Health care, well I take a sort of Darwinistic view of the subject. Access to quality health care is not a right.
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.... W...., nevermind, no comment.
 
Seems clear to me where we are headed since I have seen my rights as outlined in the Constitution (the original one before the liberal Supreme Court justices made a mockery of it with the obviously unintended interpretations over the years) gradually eroded over the last 4 or 5 decades. Socialism wins the majority of votes and the public votes for whoever promises the most for "free" without consequence as to how it will be paid. The government can only redistribute the wealth for so long before there is none left to distribute. No incentive to create wealth (business or personal) when you just give it away as an entitlement. More government jobs may solve unemployment temporarily but if nothing is happening to stimulate real permanent job growth that adds to the economy instead of burdening the economy then it only prolongs the inevitable. I feel fortunate to be in my mid 50's and hoping to retire in the next few years (may have to move out of the country to somewhere that wants me to spend my retirement savings instead of taking it and giving it away) and more importantly I am thankful that I don't have any children to worry about. IMHO the next generation or two is royally screwed because they are the one's that will have to endure the downfall of our country as we know it and live with the terrible unemployment, inflation, and debt burden our government is so hell bent on leaving coming generations to deal with.



Hope I am wrong but it looks pretty clear to me.....just my opinion!
 
OutlawTitan said:
Seems clear to me where we are headed since I have seen my rights as outlined in the Constitution (the original one before the liberal Supreme Court justices made a mockery of it with the obviously unintended interpretations over the years) gradually eroded over the last 4 or 5 decades. Socialism wins the majority of votes and the public votes for whoever promises the most for "free" without consequence as to how it will be paid. The government can only redistribute the wealth for so long before there is none left to distribute. No incentive to create wealth (business or personal) when you just give it away as an entitlement. More government jobs may solve unemployment temporarily but if nothing is happening to stimulate real permanent job growth that adds to the economy instead of burdening the economy then it only prolongs the inevitable. I feel fortunate to be in my mid 50's and hoping to retire in the next few years (may have to move out of the country to somewhere that wants me to spend my retirement savings instead of taking it and giving it away) and more importantly I am thankful that I don't have any children to worry about. IMHO the next generation or two is royally screwed because they are the one's that will have to endure the downfall of our country as we know it and live with the terrible unemployment, inflation, and debt burden our government is so hell bent on leaving coming generations to deal with.



Hope I am wrong but it looks pretty clear to me.....just my opinion!
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The problem is not socialism. It is politics. Passing tax cuts without spending reductions or doing wars without funding is as bad as passing spending bills without raising taxing or finding spending.



Some group is going to suffer. It can be the defense welfare program, entitlements, etc. There is no one really to deal with the political consequences so the norm is to just oppose what the other party running the white house is doing.
 
I'm always amused that people think that tax cuts "have to be paid for." History has shown that tax cuts lead to INCREASED revenues for the government. Look at what happened when Kennedy dropped marginal tax rates, Reagan dropped marginal rates and Bush dropped marginal rates.....government income tax revenue went up markedly. It doubled during Reagan's 8 years.



If you make it worthwhile for people to make more money, they'll do it and pay the lower tax rate on much more money, resulting in the tax revenue going up. Furthermore, they'll hire more people and those people pay taxes. If you tell people you're going to raise their taxes if they do well, the economy slows and revenues go down.





Mike
 
OutlawTitan said:
Seems clear to me where we are headed since I have seen my rights as outlined in the Constitution (the original one before the liberal Supreme Court justices made a mockery of it with the obviously unintended interpretations over the years) gradually eroded over the last 4 or 5 decades. Socialism wins the majority of votes and the public votes for whoever promises the most for "free" without consequence as to how it will be paid. The government can only redistribute the wealth for so long before there is none left to distribute. No incentive to create wealth (business or personal) when you just give it away as an entitlement. More government jobs may solve unemployment temporarily but if nothing is happening to stimulate real permanent job growth that adds to the economy instead of burdening the economy then it only prolongs the inevitable. I feel fortunate to be in my mid 50's and hoping to retire in the next few years (may have to move out of the country to somewhere that wants me to spend my retirement savings instead of taking it and giving it away) and more importantly I am thankful that I don't have any children to worry about. IMHO the next generation or two is royally screwed because they are the one's that will have to endure the downfall of our country as we know it and live with the terrible unemployment, inflation, and debt burden our government is so hell bent on leaving coming generations to deal with.



Hope I am wrong but it looks pretty clear to me.....just my opinion!
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Well put, for one paragraph.



Also the media runs our lives. They can pound any information into us long enough and we will believe it.



"Any more than $29.99 for a full detail is a rip off". Day after day on your news will kill most of your business. Even though people know better. People are sheep, they follow the masses.
 
I am pleased with some aspects and not with others. It's difficult to tell how much factual information I'm receiving because the media is so polarized. Either they discuss something with a liberal or conservative bias.



One major problem is Obama campaigned on a "work together" promise. Regardless of the reasoning, I think some people have chosen to be very difficult to work with, he hasn't made enough attempts to moderate (compensate) on issues. It would at least look like this is one of his priorities as he campaigned with. Nobody is working together, and people want to see the other side fail.
 
Barry Theal said:
I wish he was born in kenya!!!! :usa
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when i was at the gym a few weeks ago, a gentlemen was there and i overheard him talking about obama to another guy. he said he proudly served in the Marines (a while back) and mentioned if he had to serve under obama, he would get discharged as he said he would never serve under that man. he also mentioned that as far as he was concerned, he (obama) is an illegal alien and has no business being the president of the USA...
 
Obama's first 18 months remind me of this...



In 1787, while our first 13 states adopted their new constitution, Alexander Tyler who was a Scottish History Professor at the University of Edinburgh, said this about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2000 years earlier:



“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse doe to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
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BigAl3 said:
when i was at the gym a few weeks ago, a gentlemen was there and i overheard him talking about obama to another guy. he said he proudly served in the Marines (a while back) and mentioned if he had to serve under obama, he would get discharged as he said he would never serve under that man. he also mentioned that as far as he was concerned, he (obama) is an illegal alien and has no business being the president of the USA...
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There are always people who like or dislike whatever the current president so his opinion is just one of 300,000,000 in the country. I think the only fact is the comment is that the gentleman is not well informed.
 
BigAl3 said:
when i was at the gym a few weeks ago, a gentlemen was there and i overheard him talking about obama to another guy. he said he proudly served in the Marines (a while back) and mentioned if he had to serve under obama, he would get discharged as he said he would never serve under that man. he also mentioned that as far as he was concerned, he (obama) is an illegal alien and has no business being the president of the USA...
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I agree, I don't think I would have wanted to serve under him either. I was lucky enough to serve with Clinton as a Commander in Cheif. People will see the true light soon of this man.
 
rdorman said:
To the OT, No. Health care, well I take a sort of Darwinistic view of the subject. Access to quality health care is not a right.
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Hmmmm.... really? Lets take a look at the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America...



We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,

establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,

do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



"Promote the General Welfare".... in plain English... Do everything we can to make for sure the great people of this nation fare well. Free access to quality health care will help me "fare well" if I get sick and can't afford to see the doctor. As I see it, access to quality Health Care is a right we are granted in the Constitution of the United States of America
 
"Promote the General Welfare"

Based upon that same interpretation I suppose that you think this means everyone should have free access to housing, food, and clothing as well as quality health care......all of these things are just as basic. Pretty soon it will be just one big government coop. Someone has to pay for all of this free access. I just don't understand why I need to work if all of these things are my rights under the constitution.
 
dlocks said:
Hmmmm.... really? Lets take a look at the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America...



We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,

establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,

do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



"Promote the General Welfare".... in plain English... Do everything we can to make for sure the great people of this nation fare well. Free access to quality health care will help me "fare well" if I get sick and can't afford to see the doctor. As I see it, access to quality Health Care is a right we are granted in the Constitution of the United States of America
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Maybe you should read what Thomas Jefferson meant by "general welfare"



~ With all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow citizens -- a wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities ~
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"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare but only those specifically enumerated."
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"Our tenet ever was that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money. "

-- Thomas Jefferson letter to Albert Gallatin, 1817
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"They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare.... [G]iving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please."
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"The greatest [calamity] which could befall [us would be] submission to a government of unlimited powers."

-- Thomas Jefferson, Declaration and Protest of Virginia, 1825.
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Well I see the need to discuss my comments about health care not being a right and general welfare have been taken care of! Thanks!



I would love it if every one in the world could have the best of care, a roof over there head, education and never go hungry. But population needs > resources. Some thing has to give. Stinks, but that is the way it is.
 
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