American or Foreign

Nimble said:
To answer bluntly, nothing. I do not like American cars. They lack quality and the styling I've come to know of BMW's, Honda's, Toyota's. It's not a money thing either, my $12K Yaris is built FAR better than a $12K Cobalt.
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:D Oh its probaly just me and that I am pro GM and pro domestic and work for a GM plant. But that quote makes me laugh alittle because in the end all of our statments are opinions and this could go back and fourth. :bolt



With that said in no way did I mean any disrespect to you Nimble and others that dont buy domestic!
 
Monte78Carlo2k1 said:
:D Oh its probaly just me and that I am pro GM and pro domestic and work for a GM plant. But that quote makes me laugh alittle because in the end all of our statments are opinions and this could go back and fourth. :bolt



With that said in no way did I mean any disrespect to you Nimble and others that dont buy domestic!
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It's not really based on opinions though, we're not talking about something like looks, we're talking about reliability, which can be proven statistically. Companies like Toyota and Honda have proven track records for reliability. Statistically they have fewer problems than other cars, it's a fact.
 
Monte78Carlo2k1 said:
:D Oh its probaly just me and that I am pro GM and pro domestic and work for a GM plant. But that quote makes me laugh alittle because in the end all of our statments are opinions and this could go back and fourth. :bolt



With that said in no way did I mean any disrespect to you Nimble and others that dont buy domestic!
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Does it make you feel better that my Dad had a 04 Z06 a few years back and I liked it? :D
 
metload1 said:
It's not really based on opinions though, we're not talking about something like looks, we're talking about reliability, which can be proven statistically. Companies like Toyota and Honda have proven track records for reliability. Statistically they have fewer problems than other cars, it's a fact.
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While this is true, and people like yourself, and well, me ;) like foreign cars better, there is and always will be a large population of folks that just plain love American cars. I guess I can't blame them, they were brought up that way. :idea



In my opinion, it's not that American cars have no merits, it's just that for my money, I'll always opt for the foreign car. (That is until I have enough money for 4 cars hehe, then I'll rock a new Z06 and a pimped out Denali lol......alongside my E46 M3 and dead reliable Toyota).
 
Nimble said:
While this is true, and people like yourself, and well, me ;) like foreign cars better, there is and always will be a large population of folks that just plain love American cars. I guess I can't blame them, they were brought up that way. :idea



In my opinion, it's not that American cars have no merits, it's just that for my money, I'll always opt for the foreign car. (That is until I have enough money for 4 cars hehe, then I'll rock a new Z06 and a pimped out Denali lol......alongside my E46 M3 and dead reliable Toyota).
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Very true. I really like a lot of things about my Grand Prix, and if it weren't for the reliability problems I would definitely get another American car next time around. But since that's not the case as of now I think I'll someday be doing what you are talking about, have the Toyota/Honda daily driver and have the American muscle as the weekend driver.



I'd love to have a Z06 too. My neighbor just recently got an 07 Vette (LS2 version) and I really like it. I got a ride and there's definitely 400 horses under the hood!
 
metload1 said:
I'd love to have a Z06 too. My neighbor just recently got an 07 Vette (LS2 version) and I really like it. I got a ride and there's definitely 400 horses under the hood!
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Haha yeah that's a good way to put it! I've driven the new LS2 and it's hard to put in words how it compares to the old Z06's 405hp other than, well it kind of doesn't. The old Z was just balls out fast and raw, where the new motor is much more refined IMO. It's nice, don't get me wrong, just not put 3 bolt ons and drag radials and you're running low 11's nice. :chuckle:
 
Nimble said:
While this is true, and people like yourself, and well, me ;) like foreign cars better, there is and always will be a large population of folks that just plain love American cars. I guess I can't blame them, they were brought up that way. :idea



In my opinion, it's not that American cars have no merits, it's just that for my money, I'll always opt for the foreign car. (That is until I have enough money for 4 cars hehe, then I'll rock a new Z06 and a pimped out Denali lol......alongside my E46 M3 and dead reliable Toyota).
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Agreed completely. Myself working for GM and my dad and both of my parents-parents worked for GM in some way so I of course get a discount and I feel I would be absolutely be stupid not to buy a brand new vehicle from GM. Dont get me wrong I do like some foriegn cars. Heck my first car as a graduation gift was almost a 04 350Z. Having the money for four cars is that way to go I like your idea:D
 
Monte78Carlo2k1 said:
Agreed completely. Myself working for GM and my dad and both of my parents-parents worked for GM in some way so I of course get a discount and I feel I would be absolutely be stupid not to buy a brand new vehicle from GM. Dont get me wrong I do like some foriegn cars. Heck my first car as a graduation gift was almost a 04 350Z. Having the money for four cars is that way to go I like your idea:D
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Nice call on the 350, I like those cars, especially the 06+ with the 18's and 300hp stock. But anyways, yeah having 4 cars someday would be really nice. And it's not that I am the "typical" person only liking American muscle or trucks, I also find that the Fusion, the new Lincoln line up, etc are also nice cars. Wanna know what really gets me going though? The Dodge line up. Has to be the single most hideous line up of cars out there, yes even worse than Kia. :D Can they put that mak truck front end on any other cars? Gotta love the "mean" look of a mak truck front end on a econobox. What are they thinking? That's right...they don't think. They just put junk on the market to see how it does. And yes, count me as one of the few that can't stand the Magnum, charger, etc. I had a Magnum for a rental, and wow, what a plastic piece of junk, with the motor of 4 squirrels trying to move that 5K lb turd down the road. Ok, ok, enough ragging on Dodge's...."maybe our Viper should have 600hp because even 500+ won't compete with the Z06." hehe :chuckle:
 
I dont like dodge/crysler group. The only thing I do like is the Viper and I used to like the 300 but that design has gotten so old so quick it makes me sick. Like I have said I am Pro-GM but GM has done the same thing with Pontiac for one example; before they got rid of the GTO and the Bonniville it was almost like small medium and large. They all looked the same. Its like the the big three are trying to hard to be like BMW and 'Cedes. Both of those german companies both have the look all of our vehicles have the same front end but some how it still works in the US...why well because there is a loyalty to those companies, in many cases its because of the NAME- BMW or other foreign big names. Dont get me wrong BMW has very nice cars; their manual transmissions are smooth as silk compared to GM's. You know Toyota and Honda both used to have better quality than GM hands down no doubt. The thing is that its not so much these days. The quality in GM and Ford<-(Ha I just used Ford and quality in the same sentence) and that other company has gotten better than that slump. The news and such are still saying ohhh the big three has had another quality problem and its always being spoken out loud about so everybody knows. Well recently Honda has had a MAJOR recall...but wait can anyone state what the problem was. Most likely no...why because its not being thrown out there like it is for the american companies so when I said that most of this is based on opinion this is where I am coming from. Toyota made this statment not to long ago about being the number one in america...wait what happened with that mantality. They soon caught a glimps of what it feels like and it scared the living sh*t out of them and they have backed away from making statements like that because of how much pressure it is for being number one.



If I can find the articles supporting what I just said and I will...I will post them here so its not like talking out of my ***. You know what I mean?
 
Monte78Carlo2k1 said:
Well recently Honda has had a MAJOR recall...but wait can anyone state what the problem was. Most likely no...why because its not being thrown out there like it is for the american companies so when I said that most of this is based on opinion this is where I am coming from.
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Are you are referring to the one about the odometers adding more miles than they should?
 
Monte78Carlo2k1 said:
I dont like dodge/crysler group. The only thing I do like is the Viper and I used to like the 300 but that design has gotten so old so quick it makes me sick. Like I have said I am Pro-GM but GM has done the same thing with Pontiac for one example; before they got rid of the GTO and the Bonniville it was almost like small medium and large. They all looked the same. Its like the the big three are trying to hard to be like BMW and 'Cedes. Both of those german companies both have the look all of our vehicles have the same front end but some how it still works in the US...why well because there is a loyalty to those companies, in many cases its because of the NAME- BMW or other foreign big names. Dont get me wrong BMW has very nice cars; their manual transmissions are smooth as silk compared to GM's. You know Toyota and Honda both used to have better quality than GM hands down no doubt. The thing is that its not so much these days. The quality in GM and Ford<-(Ha I just used Ford and quality in the same sentence) and that other company has gotten better than that slump. The news and such are still saying ohhh the big three has had another quality problem and its always being spoken out loud about so everybody knows. Well recently Honda has had a MAJOR recall...but wait can anyone state what the problem was. Most likely no...why because its not being thrown out there like it is for the american companies so when I said that most of this is based on opinion this is where I am coming from. Toyota made this statment not to long ago about being the number one in america...wait what happened with that mantality. They soon caught a glimps of what it feels like and it scared the living sh*t out of them and they have backed away from making statements like that because of how much pressure it is for being number one.



If I can find the articles supporting what I just said and I will...I will post them here so its not like talking out of my ***. You know what I mean?
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Another thing I noticed though is that recently when I test drove a couple of American cars, they still sound rattly, and (for example) when you shut the doors they feel like they are going to come apart, which is one main thing I never liked about the American cars I've dealt with so far (except for a Lincoln I rode in).



Shut the doors on my father's Civic and they still shut as tight and nice as when he first bought the car in 2000.
 
Found it....

Honda Motor Corp. said Monday that it was recalling about 165,000 vehicles from the 2005-06 model years in the United States to deal with potential engine problems.

Honda said the recall affected 2005 models of the Acura RL, TL and TSX sedans, 2005 Honda Accord coupes, sedans and hybrids, 2005 Odyssey minivans and 2006 Ridgeline trucks.
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Major??
 
The thing I notice is that USUALLY Honda, Toyota, and Subaru take any recalls very seriously and issue them right away. Others I see wait until 20 people die in fires before they even look into recalling.



Another thing you have to remember is that a recall is usually not even the fault of the car manufacturer or engineers. MOST of the time is it the fault of a supplier.
 
Danase said:
The thing I notice is that USUALLY Honda, Toyota, and Subaru take any recalls very seriously and issue them right away. Others I see wait until 20 people die in fires before they even look into recalling.



Another thing you have to remember is that a recall is usually not even the fault of the car manufacturer or engineers. MOST of the time is it the fault of a supplier.
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Sometimes it's how you deal with a problem as opposed to the simple fact that you have the problem. Voluntary recall vs. forced recall.
 
SpoiledMan said:
Sometimes it's how you deal with a problem as opposed to the simple fact that you have the problem. Voluntary recall vs. forced recall.
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Yeah, that was the point I was trying to get at.
 
SpoiledMan said:
Found it....





Major??
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Yeah I think that was it. My point is that its wasnt plastared all over the place. If it was one of the big three we would still be hearing about it now if not we would have a sticky note on front of a dinner menu at a restrurant. Every company has there fair share of recalls and problems...every company that is creating new products every year I dont care what company it is. The funny thing is that the foreign market is trying to make it in the US so what do they do? They mimick in there own way american design and vice versa.:nixweiss Maybe it is because of Danase point of them not taking it as serious...which in my IMHO is not the issue. Because I hear whats going on everyday with problems and I see it being fixed.
 
metload1 said:
It's not really based on opinions though, we're not talking about something like looks, we're talking about reliability, which can be proven statistically. Companies like Toyota and Honda have proven track records for reliability. Statistically they have fewer problems than other cars, it's a fact.
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Actually, statistically, no its not a fact.



Perception Is Reality



3 million Toyotas recalled in a couple season's time last year?



Statistics and conclusions are not one in the same. One can draw conclusions based on statistics, but the conclusion is not a fact. It is an interpretation of the statistical data.



It would be just as wrong to read that article, then say "2006 Toyotas aren't as reliable as 2006 GM vehicles and its provable statistically."





This is more of a case of perceptions. Many people will hear 'american cars arent reliable' and just nod based on perceptions of quality exuded by foreign cars without any personal, or researched info to confirm it themselves. Now that Toyota has unseated one of Detroit as the big seller, lets wait a few years and see if they can maintain that perception while outselling the competion.
 
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