$75-100 an hr????

For a professional detailer(no reflection on the quality of work, as many enthusiasts do superb work, but one that is properly insured, has the needed licences and permits, follows applicable laws concerning water usage, and waste collection/discharge, pays employees a fair wage and benifits) $75 should be considered minimum wage. For the person that does not conform to running there business as a professional they should not expect professional wages.



In our shops we work on packages, and a la carte menu items. With the processes we have in place our package price is competitive, but we accomplish more work is less time. Our average hourly gross sales per bay is usualy in excess of $100. So yes it is not only possible but nessecary to cover wages, overhead, products, equipment wear and depreciation, taxes , mortgage/rent, heat, marketing, training, insurance, and the list goes on. When you take your car to a mechanic, not only does he charge you an hourly rate(they have similar overhead) but they also make a profit on the parts. Do you mark up your soaps, polishes and waxes by 40% ?



Many people, and unfortunatly detailers themselves, consider detailing a sub profession. Unfortunatly this is the case some of the time, but in speaking with a good number of detailers at MTE there are also a number of solid business people as well. MTE also exposed for me a weakeness that we all share, business accumen, faced between a seminar that talks about marketing and business subjects, VS how to use a polisher, most went for the polishing seminar(I use this as an example, meaning, technical skills are put before business skills). As an industry teh technicain mentality is a very bad one to have. One detailer (Rob Regan) started the year off with a wonderfull objective, fire himself as the technician, and hire himself as a manager.



One other caracter trait we all share, is that we detail to satisfy ourselves, not our customers. You may feel that the shock tower needs to be spotless, but does your customer want that(I have yet to see a customer get down on there knees to inspect a wheel well)? You may work to to remove 100% of a carpet stain, when your customer would have been overjoyed at 95%. I am guilty as the next detailer for going above and beond on occaison, but I also know that I need to keep 50 families fed, so profitability comes before perfection. Do so is in no way a disservice to your customer, they want your services, so you have to charge in such a fashion that you will remain in business to be able to serve them longer.



Doa quick survey in your area of plumbers, and electricains if you are mobile, and mechanics and body shops if you are fixed, that should give you a general idea of what a customer is willing to pay for a professional trades person.
 
You have to remember demographics, product choice, and market value all play a role in what you can charge.



you are in washington where it rains a bunch...I highly doubt there is a market for high line, autopian level detailing on a constant level. If I were you, I would put together a couple packages and stick with those making you anywhere from 40-50/hr depending on how fast you can get through them. Get a routine down and work on tweaking it so that you are fast and efficient, without cutting corners.



Example: my complete detail

wash with ONR, Dry with WW towels

clean wheels and tires, dress tires

wax exterior paint, remove wax

hit chrome exhaust pipe if applicable

interior vacuum

all plastics/vinyl receive UV protectant wipe down

leather gets conditioned if applicable, otherwise carpets gets scotch guarded if no leather (can be added on - takes 1 minute and charge is $10 bucks)

finally windows are cleaned and door jambs get wiped down



Total time - 2-3 hours, cost 125-150, hourly rate 50-60/hr



now, if you have 2-3 cars lined up in one location for this service, then you should bring some help with you.



its the same amount of time per car, but you are dividing it up between two people. You can pay the help 10-15 bucks cash, and you make the rest...so now you are making anywhere from 90-125 an hour.



The best way to make the most money is to have other people working for you, and a couple of them. I know of one detailer who started out making an average of 50K a year with two other guys helping him out. He then expanded and has 6 people working for him and now makes over 250K a year...he hardly ever touches the cars, unless its a high end detail.
 
Thank you for your input. I too feel that I carry more expenses than the majority of competitors, but I want to do things right. Alot of your thoughts are in line with mine.



Jean-Claude said:
I charge $65 per hour for paint correction.



I have base-rates for all of the normal stuff. When it's all said and done I make about $55-$75 per hour on the basic stuff.



I too have a hard time doing a full, proper, wash on a typical size vehicle in less than an hour. Speaking of a car that requires a wash and isn't just having one to have one. I also realize I am more meticulous than I have to be. But I want my client happy to pay me $250 for good interior, exterior wash and wax.



I am a mobile business with more expenses than most mobile detailers. I have a Sprinter, insurance(van and business), dedicated cell phone w/ data to answer emails, the best products and all the tools/equipment I require. My basic expenses for a month are still covered in a busy day. I am not out to rape my clients. I want to pay my bills and set aside some money for my wife and I.



In the Atlanta market I have no reason to charge $100 per hour worked. Once I start doing bulk and have assistants, I could see making $150+ hour. But not me, by myself.
Click to expand...
 
Yvan,

You have provided much insight at the MTE and continue to send sound advice my way. I appreciate your reply and hope others are able to learn from your input. Thank you again!



Jason



reparebrise said:
For a professional detailer(no reflection on the quality of work, as many enthusiasts do superb work, but one that is properly insured, has the needed licences and permits, follows applicable laws concerning water usage, and waste collection/discharge, pays employees a fair wage and benifits) $75 should be considered minimum wage. For the person that does not conform to running there business as a professional they should not expect professional wages.



In our shops we work on packages, and a la carte menu items. With the processes we have in place our package price is competitive, but we accomplish more work is less time. Our average hourly gross sales per bay is usualy in excess of $100. So yes it is not only possible but nessecary to cover wages, overhead, products, equipment wear and depreciation, taxes , mortgage/rent, heat, marketing, training, insurance, and the list goes on. When you take your car to a mechanic, not only does he charge you an hourly rate(they have similar overhead) but they also make a profit on the parts. Do you mark up your soaps, polishes and waxes by 40% ?



Many people, and unfortunatly detailers themselves, consider detailing a sub profession. Unfortunatly this is the case some of the time, but in speaking with a good number of detailers at MTE there are also a number of solid business people as well. MTE also exposed for me a weakeness that we all share, business accumen, faced between a seminar that talks about marketing and business subjects, VS how to use a polisher, most went for the polishing seminar(I use this as an example, meaning, technical skills are put before business skills). As an industry teh technicain mentality is a very bad one to have. One detailer (Rob Regan) started the year off with a wonderfull objective, fire himself as the technician, and hire himself as a manager.



One other caracter trait we all share, is that we detail to satisfy ourselves, not our customers. You may feel that the shock tower needs to be spotless, but does your customer want that(I have yet to see a customer get down on there knees to inspect a wheel well)? You may work to to remove 100% of a carpet stain, when your customer would have been overjoyed at 95%. I am guilty as the next detailer for going above and beond on occaison, but I also know that I need to keep 50 families fed, so profitability comes before perfection. Do so is in no way a disservice to your customer, they want your services, so you have to charge in such a fashion that you will remain in business to be able to serve them longer.



Doa quick survey in your area of plumbers, and electricains if you are mobile, and mechanics and body shops if you are fixed, that should give you a general idea of what a customer is willing to pay for a professional trades person.
Click to expand...
 
$100 an hour for a bay in a fixed location is one thing. A mobile company with much less overhead is something else.



There again, there are those clients out there that will insist that paying more makes more sense. These are also the clients that assume that paying more gets them more.



There is no one right answer. OP, you need to work through your expenses and what you want to make. Find a way to make that happen. Be it a fixed location, mobile, high end or cheapest dog in town knocking out 30 cars a day.



reparebrise said:
For a professional detailer(no reflection on the quality of work, as many enthusiasts do superb work, but one that is properly insured, has the needed licences and permits, follows applicable laws concerning water usage, and waste collection/discharge, pays employees a fair wage and benifits) $75 should be considered minimum wage. For the person that does not conform to running there business as a professional they should not expect professional wages.



In our shops we work on packages, and a la carte menu items. With the processes we have in place our package price is competitive, but we accomplish more work is less time. Our average hourly gross sales per bay is usualy in excess of $100. So yes it is not only possible but nessecary to cover wages, overhead, products, equipment wear and depreciation, taxes , mortgage/rent, heat, marketing, training, insurance, and the list goes on. When you take your car to a mechanic, not only does he charge you an hourly rate(they have similar overhead) but they also make a profit on the parts. Do you mark up your soaps, polishes and waxes by 40% ?



Many people, and unfortunatly detailers themselves, consider detailing a sub profession. Unfortunatly this is the case some of the time, but in speaking with a good number of detailers at MTE there are also a number of solid business people as well. MTE also exposed for me a weakeness that we all share, business accumen, faced between a seminar that talks about marketing and business subjects, VS how to use a polisher, most went for the polishing seminar(I use this as an example, meaning, technical skills are put before business skills). As an industry teh technicain mentality is a very bad one to have. One detailer (Rob Regan) started the year off with a wonderfull objective, fire himself as the technician, and hire himself as a manager.



One other caracter trait we all share, is that we detail to satisfy ourselves, not our customers. You may feel that the shock tower needs to be spotless, but does your customer want that(I have yet to see a customer get down on there knees to inspect a wheel well)? You may work to to remove 100% of a carpet stain, when your customer would have been overjoyed at 95%. I am guilty as the next detailer for going above and beond on occaison, but I also know that I need to keep 50 families fed, so profitability comes before perfection. Do so is in no way a disservice to your customer, they want your services, so you have to charge in such a fashion that you will remain in business to be able to serve them longer.



Doa quick survey in your area of plumbers, and electricains if you are mobile, and mechanics and body shops if you are fixed, that should give you a general idea of what a customer is willing to pay for a professional trades person.
Click to expand...
 
Jean-Claude



We get that rate from dealers, not retail. The reason we are able to get such rates is that we have worked very hard to refine our process to the point of eliminating wasted time and movements.



I read in this thread that some take upwards of an hour to wash a car. In that same time, we have washed the exterior, cleaned and dressed the engine, clayed, polished(light polish no heavy paint coreection) and waxed the car. This is done by one technician, and he/she does 7-9 cars per day. For interiors we have developed similar practices that allow us to complete a basic interior cleaning in 15-25 mins depending on car size, this includes vac, cleaning and dressing all plastics and vinyls, and cleaning the windows.



We charge $150 for such a reconditioning, while our competition charges $85. The dealers are willing to pay the diference because of the quality, and service level, but mostly because we do not stop there. Rarely does a car leave our shop for less than $300 . We council our customers to get the best from there reconditioning investment, offering in house, windshield repair, interior repair, paint touch ups, bumper repair, glass polishing, and with subs PDR, Clear Bras and window tinting. These additional services help to provide an incentive for the dealer to deal with us, knowing that they only lose the car for a day, and not a week going around from one shop to another.



Detialers have to stop seling themselves short, you have skills that you have paid dearly to aquire (in time if not tuition), and tose skills are worth as much as any other trade.

 
reparebrise said:
I read in this thread that some take upwards of an hour to wash a car. In that same time, we have washed the exterior, cleaned and dressed the engine, clayed, polished(light polish no heavy paint coreection) and waxed the car. This is done by one technician, and he/she does 7-9 cars per day. For interiors we have developed similar practices that allow us to complete a basic interior cleaning in 15-25 mins depending on car size, this includes vac, cleaning and dressing all plastics and vinyls, and cleaning the windows.
Click to expand...



I find that super hard to believe. No way in my mind can you that all in an hour without an extra set of hands.



ONR wash/bay wash

clay

poliseal

wheels and tires cleaned and dressed

windows inside and out



even on a smaller honda civic, I would be hard pressed to get that all done in 2.5 hours, let alone 1 hour. Even on rockstar/red bull (i am an advocate that I work twice as fast while drinking those) I cannot get through a wash, one step polish/wax in one hour....
 
mshu7 said:
reparebrise - Would you care to explain some of your processes so we can understand how you operate such at such a fast rate?
Click to expand...



Mike



That explination comes when you purchace training or a franchise. Sufuce it to say that I have deveoped not only proceses but also unorthodox tools and products that allow such productivity, and if someone wants to put countless hours of thought and practice they can also achieve this goal. A few things that I can say, is that every car is on a scisor lift, making the process much faster, in our larger shops we have mat washers (great time savings) and we use products that help the process, not hinder it(eg compounds, does your compond creat sling and dust, if so wiping that dust is wasted time).





J-C



ONR wash/bay wash - in most cases we use a water less wash in some cases ONR total time 10min-15mins

clay 10-12min

poliseal We use a more efficient product(faster cut) but say 10-15mins

wheels and tires cleaned and dressed 10min

windows inside and out Outside done as part of the wash step with waterless wash, inside done with interior cleaning.

 
reparebrise said:
Jean-Claude



We get that rate from dealers, not retail. The reason we are able to get such rates is that we have worked very hard to refine our process to the point of eliminating wasted time and movements.



I read in this thread that some take upwards of an hour to wash a car. In that same time, we have washed the exterior, cleaned and dressed the engine, clayed, polished(light polish no heavy paint coreection) and waxed the car. This is done by one technician, and he/she does 7-9 cars per day. For interiors we have developed similar practices that allow us to complete a basic interior cleaning in 15-25 mins depending on car size, this includes vac, cleaning and dressing all plastics and vinyls, and cleaning the windows.



We charge $150 for such a reconditioning, while our competition charges $85. The dealers are willing to pay the diference because of the quality, and service level, but mostly because we do not stop there. Rarely does a car leave our shop for less than $300 . We council our customers to get the best from there reconditioning investment, offering in house, windshield repair, interior repair, paint touch ups, bumper repair, glass polishing, and with subs PDR, Clear Bras and window tinting. These additional services help to provide an incentive for the dealer to deal with us, knowing that they only lose the car for a day, and not a week going around from one shop to another.



Detialers have to stop seling themselves short, you have skills that you have paid dearly to aquire (in time if not tuition), and tose skills are worth as much as any other trade.

Click to expand...





I believe that those motions can be run through on a car quickly. But my typical client has a dirty car that requires time. There's only so much tweaking you can do to how you vacuum out a car and that alone can take 30 minutes on a vw or honda carpet that has dirt in the nap.



Wheels can take 5 minutes or they can take 45 minutes. A 5-spoke stocker takes practically no time and a high end eleventy-million spoke can take forever. Again, there's only so much you can do to save time when you're giving a proper clean and every surface gets touched/cleaned.



A car that doesn't require a heavy clay session can take 15 minutes. But most cars that I do need time. There's ways to save a few minutes here and there by using a APC or claying with soap after a good wash. And maybe you have found a way to save tons of time where most of us have not thought of.



I am not calling you a liar. And it sounds like you have what your customers require and are doing well with it. But you also have a lot more overhead than practically everyone here. You require more money per hour worked to make the same net profit as most of us. Further, most of us work on daily drivers, for the most part, that get dirty and need time. IMHO, I believe we could all tweak our methods to some degree. But most of the detailers here take their time on their work and do take pride in not only what the customer thinks, but also what we see and how we feel about our efforts. I know for a fact that I am my own biggest critic.



I have worked on cars that could be done in a bit over one hour doing those services you mentioned. But most cars that get a detailing, NEEDS one and does take time to make right.
 
reparebrise said:
Jean-Claude



We get that rate from dealers, not retail. The reason we are able to get such rates is that we have worked very hard to refine our process to the point of eliminating wasted time and movements.



I read in this thread that some take upwards of an hour to wash a car. In that same time, we have washed the exterior, cleaned and dressed the engine, clayed, polished(light polish no heavy paint coreection) and waxed the car. This is done by one technician, and he/she does 7-9 cars per day. For interiors we have developed similar practices that allow us to complete a basic interior cleaning in 15-25 mins depending on car size, this includes vac, cleaning and dressing all plastics and vinyls, and cleaning the windows.



We charge $150 for such a reconditioning, while our competition charges $85. The dealers are willing to pay the diference because of the quality, and service level, but mostly because we do not stop there. Rarely does a car leave our shop for less than $300 . We council our customers to get the best from there reconditioning investment, offering in house, windshield repair, interior repair, paint touch ups, bumper repair, glass polishing, and with subs PDR, Clear Bras and window tinting. These additional services help to provide an incentive for the dealer to deal with us, knowing that they only lose the car for a day, and not a week going around from one shop to another.



Detialers have to stop seling themselves short, you have skills that you have paid dearly to aquire (in time if not tuition), and tose skills are worth as much as any other trade.

Click to expand...



Based on your overhead and research budget that you mentioned in another thread, I would say you HAVE to make that much in an hour just to stay profitable. Obviously, mobile guys have much less expenses; depending on how the business in structured. As for accomplishing all that in one hour by one person; it may be possible. I am not out to call your bluff because you seem like a good guy, and I respect your vision on the future of detailing. I work very efficiently and use the best equipment and products. To accomplish that amount of work in an hour I would not be able to spend the time NEEDED to do the job correctly. For example, when polishing with an AIO product, I typically spend ONE minute per panel/section actually polishing. The average car has about 15 sections I need to polish. That already is 15 minutes, not counting the time spend wiping the panel or re-applying product to the polisher. In all I might spend an hour to AIO an entire car. I guess if you are spending 15 seconds on each panel it may be possible. That is not taking into consideration the wash time, clay time, etc. that would ad to that hour. I could see this being pulled off by a team of guys on an assembly line process, but not one guy on a lift. I guess this is something that I would have to see for myself. I am all about efficiency, and believe I work very smart. As always thanks for the input and information.
 
reparebrise said:
Mike



That explination comes when you purchace training or a franchise. Sufuce it to say that I have deveoped not only proceses but also unorthodox tools and products that allow such productivity, and if someone wants to put countless hours of thought and practice they can also achieve this goal. A few things that I can say, is that every car is on a scisor lift, making the process much faster, in our larger shops we have mat washers (great time savings) and we use products that help the process, not hinder it(eg compounds, does your compond creat sling and dust, if so wiping that dust is wasted time).





J-C



ONR wash/bay wash - in most cases we use a water less wash in some cases ONR total time 10min-15mins

clay 10-12min

poliseal We use a more efficient product(faster cut) but say 10-15mins

wheels and tires cleaned and dressed 10min

windows inside and out Outside done as part of the wash step with waterless wash, inside done with interior cleaning.

Click to expand...



I believe that almost everything is possible. I also respect that you have to charge for your trade "secrets".



But would it be possible to see a general before & after picture(s) of the exterior of one of those cars? Either in sun or under halogen?



Even using Ez Creme Glaze and a high speed buffer - 10-15 mins is not enough for me to do a quality polish. I guess i could go over everything that fast, but those results wouldn't be very high quality.



PS: can you tell what polish you use as a one stepper that is better than Poli Seal?
 
going over the whole car with a wax takes 10 minutes, a one step is like waxing the car 3 times with overlapping passes breaking down the abrasives correctly. so that is about 30 minutes, not counting the down time of wiping and applying polish. Maybe its a rotary and a polishing pad with wax you use? LOL, j/k But I would love to see your process one day
 
I will side with reparebrise on this because it's the exact same thing I've done for years. If you can't wash, clay, degrease, and shine the engine in under an hour properly then something is amiss in my books. Time is being wasted somewhere. And I've done this completly by myself with no help for years now. (1 car 1 detailer approch in my shop) and people will get let go if they are taking to long to complete the process or they don't complete it properly. It's called automating your process. Every vehicle get done the exact same way regardless. The only time any of the steps change is either by abnormal conditions to the car (went mudbogging right before bringing it in or it's packed to the celing like they live out of the car) The only thing that ever should take any sort of real time is paint correction. Everything else should be pretty automated and repetitive. Of course this really applies mostly for brick and motar locations. Mobile guys always seem to have to adjust for their conditions for the day. Which may or may not add time to the process. We all seem to have very different processes we all use. But in the end as long as we got the quality we are going after and the customer is nothing but overjoyed at the end result is really all that should matter. If my customer is happy paying me $200-$300 and your customer feels his $1000 he just plunked down is well worth it then in the end we've all accomplished our goals.
 
tdekany



The product we use is our own, but of the commercially available products Poly-Seal is by far the best. Our process is not a full correction, we use this as a starting point, this is not the service we want to sell, consider it a loss leader of sorts. In the dealers head they are getting a $150 detail, but in the end they are getting a $300+ bill with the add ons such as paint correction, headlight renewal, windshield repair, touch ups, bumper repair......
 
ajnavo61490 said:
the only way i can see people getting paid $75-100/hr is paint correction
Click to expand...



true...or be a mid-level project manager in an investment bank.





That's $1000 per day, on the average day, or $250,000 per year.



Respectable for cleaning cars by yourself!





The trick is booking 8-10 $100 hours per day, 5 days per week, each week for the entire year.
 
Jakerooni said:
I will side with reparebrise on this because it's the exact same thing I've done for years. If you can't wash, clay, degrease, and shine the engine in under an hour properly then something is amiss in my books. Time is being wasted somewhere. And I've done this completly by myself with no help for years now. (1 car 1 detailer approch in my shop) and people will get let go if they are taking to long to complete the process or they don't complete it properly. It's called automating your process. Every vehicle get done the exact same way regardless. The only time any of the steps change is either by abnormal conditions to the car (went mudbogging right before bringing it in or it's packed to the celing like they live out of the car) The only thing that ever should take any sort of real time is paint correction. Everything else should be pretty automated and repetitive. Of course this really applies mostly for brick and motar locations. Mobile guys always seem to have to adjust for their conditions for the day. Which may or may not add time to the process. We all seem to have very different processes we all use. But in the end as long as we got the quality we are going after and the customer is nothing but overjoyed at the end result is really all that should matter. If my customer is happy paying me $200-$300 and your customer feels his $1000 he just plunked down is well worth it then in the end we've all accomplished our goals.
Click to expand...



Re-read his post. He is saying his techs wash, clay, clean engine, and polish with an AIO in an hour.
 
Brad



Yes we accomplish this in less than an hour, and we do so day in and say out. Unlike you we are not mobile so we have the luxury of having everything at hand and ready to work for every car. The cars we are doing range from cream puffs to lease returns, that did not maintain the car.



I took a look at your site and in particular your detailing packages(please check the spelling in the gold packages). The prices/times you quote would be for me suicidal, the prices you charge would barely cover my employees wages. If you are able to keep your business afloat for $50 per hour, than thats great for you, but in my case that is not possible.



In our pricuing structure we include such items as future growth, the goal is not just to cover our costs, but also to create profit in order to be able to continue serving our customers in the future.
 
reparebrise said:
For a professional detailer(no reflection on the quality of work, as many enthusiasts do superb work, but one that is properly insured, has the needed licences and permits, follows applicable laws concerning water usage, and waste collection/discharge, pays employees a fair wage and benifits) $75 should be considered minimum wage. For the person that does not conform to running there business as a professional they should not expect professional wages.



Do a quick survey in your area of plumbers, and electricains if you are mobile, and mechanics and body shops if you are fixed, that should give you a general idea of what a customer is willing to pay for a professional trades person.
Click to expand...





I’m going to play devils advocate and see things from another direction for people to digest…..



I’m sorry, but I have a hard time believing that $75 per hour should be considered a minimum wage for shop charges? I really don’t see how detailers (mobile or fixed location) can justify charging anywhere close to $75 per hour for their services unless they are offering something outside the normal realm of detailing/reconditioning (high end/high risk/specialty). I really like to compare our line of business to that of the Body Shop industry. In comparison, I feel body shop techs actually need to be trained a lot more to be proficient at their craft where Detailing requires much less time to be self sufficient. I’m sorry, but sectioning in a front clip on a collision repair is way more complicated than doing a full reconditioning on a trashed vehicle, yet the detail shop feels they can justify charging a higher hourly rate? Based on what? Body shops have much more overhead too and their techs usually earn a higher hourly rate than employee detailers. I don’t know of 1 body shop that charges anywhere close to this rate (retail) unless they are doing specialty repairs (exotics/restoration). And, I’m not talking about insurance prevailing rate either. I’m referring to retail, off the street posted rate. If a detail operation needs to charge $75 per hour (or more) to operate a professional, profitable business, I think they need to concentrate on minimizing their overhead and/or creating more efficient processes to be realistic.
 
jdoria said:
true...or be a mid-level project manager in an investment bank.





That's $1000 per day, on the average day, or $250,000 per year.



Respectable for cleaning cars by yourself!





The trick is booking 8-10 $100 hours per day, 5 days per week, each week for the entire year.
Click to expand...



not going to happen alone, you will get burned out rather quickly.

One thing people need to understand is personal time is a NECESSITY. If you work, work, and work, then you will end up shreading years off your life! You need to give yourself a break and enjoy life, go on trips, take vacations, etc. You are not here to work all the time and make money just for when you retire. Remember, you cant take the money to the grave with you, someone else gets it - are you working for them or for you?



I try to make at least 300 a day, that keeps me satisfied - falling way short of it constantly, but then again, I have a pretty easy going lifestyle that allows me to surf all day if I wanted to...
 
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