#20 provided better protection than Zaino....

stanger99 said:
Look guys, Smoker's post was not intended to comment on Zaino's performance - at least not in the beginning. He was referring to stubborn people who cannot leave someone to be happy with a product when they make a negative comment about some aspect of zaino. Everyone looks for factors that may have impacted his results, but rarely accept any findings that are generally zaino negative. That has nothing to do with whether or not he has tried a product. No violations of logic. Feel free to disagree as i'm sure you will.



Note: Any thread which includes "better than zaino" will always turn negative. Must be a coincidence.
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At least someone read my post .....



I didnt start the product bashing!!!!



I just turned it around a little.



Since when did me USING Zaino (as in laying out $80-odd just so I can prove what everyone else has said.) mean I cant comment on how much of a mess around it is to use it ?



I didnt comment on the 'end result' .. just the amount of fooling around to get it.
 
Smoker said:
At least someone read my post .....



I didnt start the product bashing!!!!



I just turned it around a little.



Since when did me USING Zaino (as in laying out $80-odd just so I can prove what everyone else has said.) mean I cant comment on how much of a mess around it is to use it ?



I didnt comment on the 'end result' .. just the amount of fooling around to get it.
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I know how you feel...whenever one posts an observation or a theory outside the accepted norm or against a product, you are painting a target on yourself and be prepared to be flamed...

that so far has been my observation in this forum...





..ooops did I just paint a target on myself.....:eek:
 
Smoker said:
I didnt start the product bashing!!!!
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Smoker, if this was the only negative thing you've ever had to say about Zaino, no one would think twice. But that's not the case is it? If I go back and look through your posts, it's fairly obvious that you enjoy taking shots at Zaino, and take the opportunity to do so pretty much whenever it arises . . . it's rather an obvious pattern, as another poster mentioned.



Since when did me USING Zaino (as in laying out $80-odd just so I can prove what everyone else has said.) mean I cant comment on how much of a mess around it is to use it ?
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Let's just say your criticisms would be more likely to be construed as "constructive" if they were based on any sort personal experience with the product.



Tort
 
Umm ... did I miss something ?



I'm not going to lay out $80-odd on a product that has NO commercial use in my detailing business and would instantly make my current stock redundant.





'It wont work with anything else!'



Is the regular battle cry of the Hardened Zaino Addict.



You dont use it by any chance?



Do you ........



;)
 
Personally, I've used #20 many years ago. This was when Megs had their line of detail products. I just had to have it tested as one problem kept cropping up. So I had it analyzed and found it contained a boatload of solvents more so than any other products. I also contacted Megs back then on it. Never really got one good answer, so I just stopped using it. The product has not changed at all I'll bet as I ran across some and checked it out. Same product, same smell. I may have it tested again just to be sure. Not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just not really been updated for todays finishes. It was used for mostly lead based paints, which were hard as nails and need the solvents to help penetrate and bond to the paint finish. Todays paint is waterborne and lead-free and soft. This is why some have problems of streaking, it's the solvents. Once they evaporate too quickly and to bonding did not happen, you get the streaks. No big deal, you re-apply and lo and behold, they are gone. It does protect well, seems to last pretty well too. I'm just saying that there are other products more made for todays finishes, that's all. It's a trial and error time that gets people nuts! Some use Blackfire with great results, some don't. I know the Klasse stuff works very well for the most part and lasts. It's all what you want to do, not what I want you to do or others. Everything is subjective, so go easy on anyone who has good or bad issues with a product. I would rather want to know what went wrong, or how it was done than say... That stuff blows" It may be all in what a person did to aquire the problem or great result.



I still use Megs stuff, just the polishes and pads for quick turnaround. I also like to use 3M as they have been and always have updated products to match current trends in paint. They still carry the old line of stuff for the older paints, but as newer paints come into the market, they change very quickly. After all, it's the big 3M.



Just a note: I WILL work wiith something else just to see if I can improve on something. If not, oh well...



Go and have fun, try something new and see the results.



Have a nice day!



Regards,

Deanski
 
Fear not fellas... Jason is going to get me hooked up with some Z soon and I'll tie Smoker to a wall and make him watch as it is applied to a car. Then maybe he'll change his tone. For the right amount of bribe money I might be persuaded to take him down into my basement and hook him up to a machine that will replace all his blood with Zaino. ;) I wonder if that would convert him properly. lol :xyxthumbs
 
I wouldn't waste the almighty Z for that! That's why I've got Goo Gone for. :D Now... I must go back to my lab and perfect the fluid transfer process. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! >crack of lighning and erie music plays<
 
Jngrbrdman said:
Fear not fellas... Jason is going to get me hooked up with some Z soon and I'll tie Smoker to a wall and make him watch as it is applied to a car. Then maybe he'll change his tone. For the right amount of bribe money I might be persuaded to take him down into my basement and hook him up to a machine that will replace all his blood with Zaino. ;) I wonder if that would convert him properly. lol :xyxthumbs
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Cool beans. :D

I considered offering up samples of some old Z2 and Z5, but wasn't quite sure how that would be received.



Originally posted by Smoker

Umm ... did I miss something ?



I'm not going to lay out $80-odd on a product that has NO commercial use in my detailing business and would instantly make my current stock redundant.
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That's fine. If I were in your position, I probably wouldn't look to Zaino as a business solution either. My point is that you aren't simply indifferent to Zaino, you seem to actively seek out opportunities to take shots at the product. If you had used it, and had a bad experience, I could understand, but why all the negativity toward something you haven't tried, and by your own admission, don't care to? You know, I've tried DACP a couple of times, and had terrible results (and in general, I find 3M products to be better for me than Meg's) . . . but I don't make a habit of bashing DACP or Meg's.

'It wont work with anything else!'



Is the regular battle cry of the Hardened Zaino Addict.
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Guess I'm not hardened, then :D I've used just about every non-carnauba QD available to me on Zaino with no problems. I've used Meg's Gold Class wash with no ill effects. I've topped Zaino with S100 with excellent results. Since being introduced to microfiber, I've never used Zaino-phile prescribed 100% cotton towels, only MF. Since I got my PC, I rarely apply by hand, and always use foam rather than cotton. Not exactly a zealot about the "Zaino Way", am I?



You dont use it by any chance?



Do you ........
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Currently? Not so much. I've been playing with BFII, AIO, EX, , VM, SEC, and S100 (in various combinations) on my WRX since spring set in, and hope to try DavidB's new polymer and maybe Platinum before fall. I still occasionally reach for Z if I'm doing a friend's car that needs more durability than EX or S100, and I'll probably re-do my own car with Z for the winter, as I've found it to be the most durable sealant I've tried so far. I'm always looking to try something better, though . . .



Tort
 
2wheelsx2 said:
I agree with you there. Beading has nothing to do with anything. However, it's pretty easy to tell whether you are washing bare paint, or #20. When you have fresh #20, or any wax or sealant for that matter, does it not make bugs and grime wash off really easy? After 8 weeks with #20, I have to really scrub to get a bug splat out. With Klasse, my wash mitts just glides over the paint, even after 3 months. For sure the product is deteriorated, but there is still some protection left.



I wonder if it has to do with rain composition, Tim. Have you always lived in the interior? The salt usage here is insane in the winter time, and our rain is getting pretty acidic here (not really acid rain, but no longer neutral pH like when I was a kid). I wonder if getting 300 days of rain a year has anything to do with it. :)
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Hi Gary,



No, I lived in Victoria for 4 years while going to UVIC, and then moved 60 miles north of Burns Lake for 2 years in Granisle (On top of a Mountain!). We had wind chills of -65 degrees and standing temperatures of -36 degrees for weeks on end. The weather was brutal and my paint survived extremely well with the #20.



The rest of my life has been here in the Interior. I was born here, went away for 6 years and came back. I have no had trouble with the bugs sticking or anything else. Strange!:nixweiss Maybe the rain or acidic rain in Vancouver is causing the damage. I do not know. Victoria did not get any where near the rain you guys get!:scared



I have not tried Klasse but would like to one day when I can finally get a hold of some!



Cheers!

Tim
 
As to temps I checked 3 cars in our lot a few days ago

with a infrared heat gun...

#1 a silver Toyota truck 118°

#2 a dark green chevy truck 135°

#3 a black mercedes 165°



All temps on the hood all parked the same direction.



Kevin
 
O.K., I'll buy that. A 47 degree difference between a silver car and a black car.



Can this 47 degree difference cause the Zaino to lose its ability to protect the paint from contaminants / water spots?
 
I'm not trying to defend #20 or Zaino when I say this, but nothing you put on your car is going to make it bullet proof. Some products may prove to be a little more resistant to damage, but leave water spots on any car long enough and it will cause damage. I don't care what you have on the surface. The layer of protection you are getting from any sealant is very very thin. Durable, yet thin. The difference in abilty to protect may come down to degrees or it may come down to hours. Maybe if you would have gotten to the waterspots a few minutes sooner then the Zaino would have still been protecting. Who knows...? #20 is not kevlar and it will spot just like Zaino or Klasse or Platinum or Blackfire or Poorboys or ClearKote or you name it. They will all waterspot given the right conditions. I'm not talking about weeks of abuse. I'm just talking about waterspots on a car in the right conditions will cause damage no matter what you have on the surface. That is my educated opinion and certianly subject to debate. I thought I'd throw it out there though
 
2hotford said:
The weather was brutal and my paint survived extremely well with the #20.
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Hmmm...maybe grasping at straws here, but do you wash every week? I wash at least once a week, and sometimes twice a week. I didn't know people here didn't wash for weeks at a time (I guess I have never lived in a really dry climate, except Saskatchewan, but that's a long story).



Anyway, I wonder if excessive washing wears the #20 out faster?



Oh, BTW, I always thought Victoria got more rain than Vancouver. :nixweiss
 
I'll buy that.



I just still can't describe how disappointed in Zaino I am, especially with the seven layers.



I'd been happily using it for about a year, too...
 
Well, since you are in the buying mood... Have you tried other sealants like Klasse or Platinum? #20 is good stuff, but I've found that there are products that have edges over it. Quite a bit of an edge in some respects. I don't know how they handle the waterspots that come from your sprinklers, but I do know that I had a car brought to me today that I did 2 weeks ago and it had more waterspots on it. I had applied Platinum 2 weeks ago and these new waterspots were able to come right off after a light vinegar bath. I don't know if the protection from the Platinum is what kept them from etching the clear or not. I also don't know how old the waterspots were. I was pleased that I didn't have to break out the polisher to get them off though.
 
Your right! It's not Kevlar, no matter what's on it if the rain is acidic. Sometimes it will clean off with just a QD, but acid rain spots will eat just about anything. Add in the color of the cars finish and it evaporates more quickly. The best defense is an offense, cover the car, wash it as soon as possible etc.



Our area is prone to acid rain, and yes it really is a pain, but it can be overcome.



Some do a better job, and it all depends on how much is on the car, how soon you take action.



Have we learned anything today?



I agree that Zaino is not really suited for business detail work, unless your customer's understand the amount of labor it takes to accomplish the protection. It's just easier to apply one-step or polish/protect quickly as time is money. But again, get a customer who is anal like me, time/money is no object.



So, enough of Zaino/Megs bashing. A little more constructive criticism is now requested please.



Have a nice day/evening!!!



Regards,

Deanski
 
I'm with Jngr on that one. It seems that some products work better on some paints if they are applied in a certain way on ceratin colours/cars. That's why everyone has their own favourites. Maybe #20 just happens to work better than Z for your instance. And maybe Klasse, or EX, or Collinite, or something else will work better than #20. Who knows? :nixweiss



But I guess that's why we are all here talking about all the things we are trying. If I were you, I would give Klasse a shot. I did, and am extremel happy with the results. However, there is also with staying with #20. As Mike Phillips likes to quote (can't remember the owner of the quote's name), "Find something you like, and use it often."
 
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