using the rotary buffer outside--total swirl removal ?

C

chip douglas

New member
Hey all,

would you think it is impossible to get a swirl free finish buffing outside ? I'm ben trying to remove them swirls, and I did remove lots of them, but can,t remove them all. I've tried polishing, finishing pads, with different speed, pressure, polish, light cut compounds, and still no success.......it is quite frustrating really. The car I'm working on, is my girlfriend's car, which is a red repaint (urethane repaint). The paint appears to be soft, but I could be wrong on this.

I wipe the area with quick detailer very carefully, I constantly check the pad and paint finish for dust particles, and still swirls won't go away..............is it totally impossible to get rid of all swirls outside ? I do not mean to hide them, but to genuinely get rid of them :).

Take care and many thanks in advance

Marc
 
The most important question to ask is.... What products are you using? Maybe you need something more aggressive.

Ive been successful with removing swirls with a PC and the Poorboy's SSR line.
 
Maybe your causing more swirls as you remove some of them? You should try using a polishing pad and work up the abrasive before depending on other variables. :dunno
 
treestand,

I'm using Meg's 83 as well as 82, and I've tried both products with either a polishing or finishing pad, still from Meg's. Of course I did reduce the appearance of the swirls, as well as the severity, by a lot ! But I really thought I could actually take them *all* out, without resorting to hidding them with any given wax/filler.

Cheers
 
Further,

I have to mention I'm using a rotary (Makita), and I've hovered in the speed range of 1000-1800 rpm. I truly wonder whether *all* swirls can be taken out, as I,ve done everything that could possibly be done to correct the problem.

Some claim they do take em *all* out, but really, I question that....as they're ever so easy to introduce in the finish....the slightest dust particle, and there ya go :rolleyes:
 
Chip maybe you need to follow up with a less abrasive polish. If one dust particle can do so much damage, just take it easy and cover em up. I bet you took 90% out, which is pretty good. Remember you are heating up your paint alot and taking clear off.
 
Chip,

You will never remove all swirls with a rotary because the slightest tweak here or there will introduce swirls, even with the softest pad and purest polish. I have seen highly skilled rotary users perform their work but they still leave swirls, ever so slightly, but they are there.

So they then take an orbital and go over the paint one or two more times and if they can't be removed completley than they hide them.

Anthony
 
Anthony,

honestly I was beginning to think a rotary alone cannot take *all of them swirls, but I didn't really know it. Then It explains why I've been having such problems trying to remove them swirls only with the rotary ! I'll switch a an orbital with a swirl remover then :). I don't have that much experience, and you and other with lost of it, can *really* be of much help.

If you want to add something else, don't hesitate Anthony, your advice is welcome:)


Cheers
 
Anthony,

the fact that you say I'll never be able to take them all swirls with the buffer only, is this a known fact by everyone in the business ? I guess it is. Please don't take any offence, at my asking this last question, It's only something that crossed my mind and I'd never want to offend anyone here, honestly.


Best..
 
Anthony,

Are you suggesting that if a vehicle has only minor swirls and marring, you should not use a rotary in attempting to remove them?

So far there has been nothing that I haven't been able to get out of black Hemi or my wife's silver Tacoma with only a pc and a variety of pads and abbrasives. I've been considering the purchase of a Makita 9227 for over a year and every time I get ready to place the order I read a post that causes me to think --- "Now let's just wait a minute..."

Tom :cool
 
It gets very confusing at times, as Bud Abraham down at *secrets of the exerts* forum, says swirls caused by the rotary can only be taken out with a rotary......Bud says PC only hide and do not remove swirls. Personally, I'd say Bud is wrong, but all of those individuals all have wayyy more experience than I do, so that's why it gets very confusing.

That being said, from my own experience, I'm with Anthony, in that *all* swirls cannot be taken out with the rotary alone, as god knows I've tried and I'm so meticulous !

Cheers
 
Chip, I'm with you: I strongly disagree that a PC can't remove *some* swirls/micromarring. To prove it can , just spray the area with ispropyl alcohol and see if the defects reappear. If they do, then keep on using the PC until they are gone or until you run into the situation we have here.This is more or less my standard practice. I have positively removed minor swirls with a PC even though it may have taken quite some time especailly on hard clear coat.
 
It appears not all paints will react to the same treatment, and even with a rotary, it seems to take a while to correct some defect, of course caution is indicated, that accounts for the time It may take, at least in individuals still green with the later.
 
:yeah Yes, it will take some time I would say when using a PC because of the nature of the machine, results are slow to materialize, probably more so with some paints than others and it will take some time using the rotary if for no other reason than one must be cautious while using it, the paint is being heated and particles of paint are being moved around.

It can be rather frustrating when it takes so much time to remove defects so minor they can't be seen in all lighting but when they are visible, :mad:
 
It can truly be downright frustrating indeed, especially when you're as nutty as I'm :). I'm all about detail, and my girlfriend, mom, dad, and everyone I know, tell me I'm overboard, but hey I'm 32 and when it comes to giving my car and my girlfriends, parents the best finish they can get, nothing will stop me:lmfao

Let me say It was a relief to hear Anthony say I would never get all of them swirls out with the rotary, cause I've tried it all and what little was left wouldn't budge :rolleyes:
 
how true ..how true...in all my years I've only seen two perfect paint jobs , both on street rods that had better than 50k invested in paint and they were both trailer queens...
 
tguil said:
Anthony,

Are you suggesting that if a vehicle has only minor swirls and marring, you should not use a rotary in attempting to remove them?

So far there has been nothing that I haven't been able to get out of black Hemi or my wife's silver Tacoma with only a pc and a variety of pads and abbrasives. I've been considering the purchase of a Makita 9227 for over a year and every time I get ready to place the order I read a post that causes me to think --- "Now let's just wait a minute..."

Tom :cool
Click to expand...

Tom,

If they are minor then I would first try the PC with a SMR and a polishing pad. Review the car in the sun and see how it looks. I use a product from Hi-Temp called "KLEAN" and it removes any and all bufing residue, including oils and fillers. I use it after I buff an area and this helps me see the true paint. A 50/50 mixture of water/alcohol will also remove any fillers.

I have come close to a swirl free finish using only a rotary but there are still some here and there, ever so light, but they can be seen still. When I reach this point I stop trying to remove the rest with a rotary and then go to my Cyclo. Work small areas very slowly and it almost always removes the remaining, depending on how hard the clear is.

Anthony
 
chip douglas said:
It gets very confusing at times, as Bud Abraham down at *secrets of the exerts* forum, says swirls caused by the rotary can only be taken out with a rotary......Bud says PC only hide and do not remove swirls. Personally, I'd say Bud is wrong, but all of those individuals all have wayyy more experience than I do, so that's why it gets very confusing.

That being said, from my own experience, I'm with Anthony, in that *all* swirls cannot be taken out with the rotary alone, as god knows I've tried and I'm so meticulous !

Cheers
Click to expand...

Bud is a good guy.....he is a character for sure but also a good guy whom I have alot of respect for. He and I disagree on many things, one area are swirls, not so much on how they are introduced but rather what can remove them. Rotaries and swirls and like fighting fire with fire. To remove swirls properly and effectively you need to use the same machine (the rotary) that put them in there but use a better technique.

I am experimenting with some stuff and I am trying to get a swirl free finish with a rotary. If I succed I'll share it with you all.

Anthony
 
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