This is why you measure paint!

M

Mike lambert

New member
This is a 2018 Mazda. I’ll have more later but this is why a responsible detail shop will measure paint thickness! Some people will go after this with a rotary and wool pad!
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If that is in Mils, then its 70.8406 Microns... Total Thickness... Not Clear Coat Total Thickness...
This is just terrible news on a new 2018 Mazda !!!
If a shop tells you they are going to use a rotary and wool on your new car, you need to run away from those drunk clowns fast...
Glad you are always on top of it, Mike !
Dan F
 
That is crazy thin! Curious Mike why you chose Mills instead of microns? I know their have been many threads on the topic but I`m still curious.

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Are they cutting back on clear coat, paint, or both on the new cars to save a few bucks? When I got my car painted I picked out the type of clear and had them put 3 coats on. Looked great, but wow a ton of orange peel that had to be sanded.
 
I see Mazda hasn`t changed this for the better; that`s even a tiny bit thinner than our last one was.

Mike lambert- Thanks for posting this! Very timely too, as we`ve been discussing wetsanding/orange peel on a few threads lately.

Eh, forget wetsanding, that`s not thick enough for much correction period so I hope it doesn`t get marred up. You planning to coat it with Modesta?
 
I wouldn’t attempt to remove any texture on a newer car! Despite what others are doing. That greatly diminishes the life of the paint. Yes it will get Modesta, that is all we offer now. Thank you!
 
Mike lambert said:
For those not familiar, that’s thinner than a post it note! Thank you!
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Thanks for sharing. It`s nuts that this new car paint is so thin!

PearTree said:
Curious Mike why you chose Mills instead of microns? I know their have been many threads on the topic but I`m still curious.
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You asked Mike, but I`ll chime in with why I choose what I do. For me, it reminds of a tachometer with a dual range readout. Two pics below do essentially the same thing: read engine RPMs. One does it at a constant range, while the other has a dual range. The dual range one, if you notice, has a certain range that is more pronounced. It`s for an application where that range is more important than the lower RPMS

Single.jpg Dual.jpg

When I started using a PTG, and when I first learned about it, the measurements were in Mils. After playing with it a bit, and trying out the different settings, I switched and continue to use microns. Why?

For me, it`s like that dual range tachometer. I want to "zoom in" to an area that is easier to read. Example:

Here are some readings I just took from my hood: 118, 115, 112. Say this was a 2 step correction, I would have started with 118 microns, then 115 after the 1st step, and finally ended up at 112 microns.

Okay. I easily see that I went from 118, to 115, to 112. Easy peasy

Those same readings (using the conversion) in mils are: 4.6456, 4.5276, and 4.4094. Now I`m looking at decimal points, or tenths/hundredths of a number!

I don`t want to be trying to calculate numbers in my head while working on a panel.

Conclusion: For ME, it`s just easier to read whole numbers versus decimals
 
I will ask the inevitable question for those of us uneducated on today`s automotive paint production methods; What IS an "acceptable" paint thickness for a new car??

Just Jesus
I like your thought process about whole numbers using microns. I makes sense as long as you are familiar with the unit of measurement and can relate to how much it is for what you are measuring.

I only say that because we in the United States still use Imperial/English standard units of measurements for length (miles/yards/feet/inches/mils) where the rest of the world used the metric system (Kilometers/meters/centimeters/millimeters/microns?). Why America has not gone to the Metric System is because we have no experience in relating to how much a millimeter is; IE because we have not been taught or use tools to measure those values, we have no concept or mental relationship to relate to it. I think Accumulator brought out the fact that is 1974 (1974!!!) that an act of Congress mandated that the USA would convert to the Metric System by the year 1985. Why didn`t this happen? Simple. Our manufacturing and tooling (drills, cutting tools, measuring, and dies used to make fasteners and metal shapes) would have to change over make parts and raw materials to conform to this "new" measuring system and that would be cost-prohibitive to the entire US economy, SOOOOO the law was never enforced. Oh, there was some "concessions" made, like having highway signage on US Interstates denote distances in Kilometers and Miles (something you may see today) and industries COULD use it if they desired, which some do because it is "required" (IE, mandated) IF you want to export your products to foreign countries/entities, like the European Union. As a mechanical designer and draftsmen, my schooling was very much inches and fractions and to this day I am "old school" and can only relate to this system. (Yes, I still do conversions from millimeters to inches with a calculator or chart). That said, education and familiarity by daily usage with the Metric System is the only way we Americans will convert to its usage. Those of you in the medical and chemical fields know the Metric System very well because that is the defacto measuring system taught AND used by individuals in those fields of study and careers. OK, so this is SOOOOOOOOO off-topic to measuring today`s automotive production paint thickness, so I digress......
 
I don’t think you can answer that question? I think the question needs to be nowadays is what is now the acceptable amount of paint you can remove over the life of the car, and still keep the integrity?
 
Mike lambert said:
I don’t think you can answer that question? I think the question needs to be nowadays is what is now the acceptable amount of paint you can remove over the life of the car, and still keep the integrity?
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Agree. It`s not like most people care how much paint there is or how much correction it can stand.

And with it being *SO* easy to cut off a lot of clear in moments these days, it could be a recipe for disaster long-term. But few people really think of vehicles as long-term investments any more, so I doubt many will really care about that either.

For those of us who *do* care, IMO the #1 priority oughta be not marring it in the first place.

Regarding the Metric System- as a kid back in the `60s I was taught both English and Metric side-by-side and expected to know both. In first grade.
 
Mike:
I think mass vehicle manufacturer`s in general are SO cost-conscious that this is affecting vehicle quality and vehicle safety. I say safety with the GM ignition switch fiasco as a prime example. Let`s face it, vehicles a finite life subject to vehicle warranties. Car batteries are a good example: they last the life of warranty, not the life of the car. Is vehicle paint/clear coat becoming the next "limited warranty" item???
Maybe it is time for the consumer demand better. That will not happen unless vehicle sales by any manufacturer drops precipitously. It might if a buyer went in to a car dealer with a paint thickness gauge (PTG) and started measuring it on new vehicles, then post the results on social media for all to see and know about. Maybe this thread/post is just the start of such information and, hopefully, a response by manufacturers.
 
I`m with Jesus on this one - I want to see the closest number measurement of the Total Thickness (since that is what my meter measures), and once I know that number on that spot on the panel, when I re-measure it as I work, I can see exactly how much of 1 micron, etc., I removed...
I want to remove (as we all do), as - little - as possible, and get acceptable clarity and gloss for the Client at whatever price point he/she is paying for..
Looking at it in Microns works best for me..
Dan F
 
Lonnie- Agree with that too :D

But I suppose that if a maker decided to up the build/buy cost to cover doing things (our version of) "right", most customers would buy something else because hey..they don`t worry about that [stuff] :rolleyes:

Most people simply wouldn`t believe the explicitly insulting things that dealership employees said to both my wife and me when we mentioned stuff like Paint Condition when New Car Shopping. Like we were screwy for caring about such stuff on cars costing big $ (and needed to be told so). Why care about us, when some [other individuals] will buy...I mean lease... it without being a PIA?
 
Accumulator said:
Lonnie- Agree with that too :D

But I suppose that if a maker decided to up the build/buy cost to cover doing things (our version of) "right", most customers would buy something else because hey..they don`t worry about that [stuff] :rolleyes:

Most people simply wouldn`t believe the explicitly insulting things that dealership employees said to both my wife and me when we mentioned stuff like Paint Condition when New Car Shopping. Like we were screwy for caring about such stuff on cars costing big $ (and needed to be told so). Why care about us, when some [other individuals] will buy...I mean lease... it without being a PIA?
Click to expand...

Mi Hermano, El Accumulator` --
Totally agree with your experiences with some dealership people... They are still, and have been using the 60`s on model of total disregard for good people wanting to know answers to simple questions... The model is move the units, so they quit paying rent on them, at whatever cost - to the buyer - that they can get away with... It is so sad.. The things they do say and try to pull over on people is just appalling...

Once these Honda guys brought 4 different financial "wizards" over to my little cubicle inside the dealership to try to get me to give away my nicer than any vehicle on the lot, Jeep, and I very easily reasoned with them and in the end they had not ground left to stand on.. It was almost funny..

They are so predictable, rude, and insulting, I wonder why they have never, ever, listened to focus groups, etc., and decided, they desperately need a 21st century game plan now..
Dan F
 
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