POLL: How long is your average prep time?

[Dellinger]

David,

Thank you for your thoughts. It really takes some stones to post your prep steps and reasoning for them. I appreciate it and many thanks for your insights.

-Gabe

 

[Accumulator]

David Fermani- Yeah, when I did the white Crown Vic (utterly trashed when I got it back from that shop in Florida..) I dried it with cotton towels to keep my good MF ones from getting contaminated. And I did the ABCing with cotton wash mitts too. That vehicle was as close as I hope to get these days to the kind of "full detail on a nasty vehicle" that you guys have to deal with, and when the first corrective step will be either a wetsand or "harsh compound on wool" then even *I* don't worry (too much) about a little wash-induced marring.

Thanks for explaining how you're viewing the "water spotting", yeah..if the correction takes care of it then I agree about not worrying.

 

[RaskyR1]

1 person does all my prepping.

**Drying of your vehicle after washing
Now this could either save you or cost you a lot of time. We water blade our windows and let our cars drip dry. And sometimes we even water blade the entire car depending. Many people I'm sure spend way too long making sure the vehicle is totally dry before starting anything. To me, this is a major waste of time on a complete detail (inside & out). The key is to get the *bulk* of the water off the car to avoid possible water spots and then go right to detailing the interior. Once you're finished with the interior, the exterior will be dry. It makes no sense to dry parts of a vehicle (rocker/lower doors/lower bumpers) when there's no chance that the sun will cause spotting to these parts due to angle.



To drill into how we do things I prepared a quick step by step of our process:
1- Pre-rinse heavy dirt/grease from exterior, engine, wheels & wheel wells
2- Pre-soak engine, jambs, wheel wells, rockers & front bumper w/APC
3-Acid wash wheels & hand scrub wheel wells & tires
4-Power wash engine
5-Power wash door jambs
6-Hand wash exterior with MF towel as well as jambs & underside of hood
7-Rinse complete vehicle
8-Clay towel with Waterless Wash solution
9-Leaf blow critical engine components
10-Dress engine
11-Water blade as needed

Hopefully these processes can save detailers some time in the prep bay. Another thing that could help is the implementation of a low water wash depending on the vehicle and how dirty it is. you really need to analyze the time you spend and how unnecessary some of the things you do can effect your time. Yes, some of these processes are directed towards a high volume environment, but if you can achieve the end overall result with less time, less water & chemical use then you are ahead of the curve.

The only thing I have issue with is the water blade on the paint. As you know I'm just a part time guy (1-4 cars a month), yet in the last 12-18 months I've had 2 very nice cars come in with SEVERE damage from water blades. One was a classic car, damage was done by the owner, and it required wet sanding to remove. As soon as I saw the damage I questioned him right away on the blade on it he admitted to using it occasionally. The second car was a newer Tesla and another local shop washed it regularly and dried with the blade. The damage on this car was too deep to fully remove.

Fine on the glass, no place on the paint.

Acid is fine for some, but not all wheels.

Just my $.02

 

[Stokdgs]

David Fermani - Mi Amigo from years ago !

Thank you for putting together a very well thought out process for Detailers that do this for a living.

I have been practicing about everything you have been doing as well for years, and I have no issues with anything you listed..

Also have to say that a good pressure washer before and after washing the car, getting in all the tiny areas, side trim, door trim, behind BMW tail lights, into the door, hood, trunk and cowl, jamb openings, into the inner wheels, entire wheel well, EVERYWHERE - really cuts down on the amount of Detail work done later..

Totally agree that after spraying a good APC or in some cases a good safe Degreaser, and coming back again with the Pressure Washer, will do wonders when it comes to the actual car wash itself..

And yes, wheels that have been previously pressure washed with plain water, then sprayed with appropriate strength cleaner/acid, etc., brushed, then pressure rinsed - 1 at a time - totally makes this so much faster...

As your vehicles, mine also leave with absolutely no dirt, etc., anywhere on the outside or inside..

Jambs - I like to use my steamer, after rinsing them with doors, etc., closed with pressure washing, and some might have a lot of leaves crammed deep in there, but what is still left my VX5000 removes quickly and easily..

I dont need a water blade because I have my Master Blaster on the top tray of a Detailing Cart, all ready and plugged in with 100' of 12awg cord that is velcro secured between the 2 plugs so nothing comes loose and its easy to get around the vehicle very quickly..

And the bonus of the Master Blaster is it gets all water out of all those tiny places under moldings, wheel wells, wheels, entire engine compartment, almost all out of the under hood insulation, etc...

By the time the vehicle is prepared, its dry and no dripping on the garage floor from the body, just a little off the top of the tires from rolling on the driveway..

Great write up and comments, everyone !!!
Dan F

 

[David Fermani]

The only thing I have issue with is the water blade on the paint. As you know I'm just a part time guy (1-4 cars a month), yet in the last 12-18 months I've had 2 very nice cars come in with SEVERE damage from water blades. One was a classic car, damage was done by the owner, and it required wet sanding to remove. As soon as I saw the damage I questioned him right away on the blade on it he admitted to using it occasionally. The second car was a newer Tesla and another local shop washed it regularly and dried with the blade. The damage on this car was too deep to fully remove.

Fine on the glass, no place on the paint.

Acid is fine for some, but not all wheels.

Just my $.02

I think it boils down to how well the vehicle is rinsed, how soft the paint is and user ability.

After really getting well acquainted with our water blade for the last several months, I can honestly say that it in itself will not cause deep marring that isn't on par with what clay/clay towels induce. What causes deeper marring is when you don't clean your water blade and/or you pick up a piece of sand/dirt while swiping. If you're rinsing your vehicles correctly (top to bottom) and washing out cracks you really shouldn't pick up anything. People drying their cars by towel have a somewhat similar opportunity of picking up a loose debris/sand and dragging it across their paint causing damage. Use these tools on the top surfaces and you really shouldn't have any serious issues. Start using them on bumpers, lower doors and other areas that sand naturally finds itself in and you open yourself up to problems. The chances of picking up a piece of dirt on a hood, roof, trunk or the tops of doors is extremely low if you're doing a good job of rinsing. And obviously a power washer does a much better job.

 

[RaskyR1]

I think it boils down to how well the vehicle is rinsed, how soft the paint is and user ability.

After really getting well acquainted with our water blade for the last several months, I can honestly say that it in itself will not cause deep marring that isn't on par with what clay/clay towels induce. What causes deeper marring is when you don't clean your water blade and/or you pick up a piece of sand/dirt while swiping. If you're rinsing your vehicles correctly (top to bottom) and washing out cracks you really shouldn't pick up anything. People drying their cars by towel have a somewhat similar opportunity of picking up a loose debris/sand and dragging it across their paint causing damage. Use these tools on the top surfaces and you really shouldn't have any serious issues. Start using them on bumpers, lower doors and other areas that sand naturally finds itself in and you open yourself up to problems. The chances of picking up a piece of dirt on a hood, roof, trunk or the tops of doors is extremely low if you're doing a good job of rinsing. And obviously a power washer does a much better job.

Towels have nap to lift away and/or cushion the amount of pressure being applied to the dirt particle, the water blade just drags it across the paint. I've used it enough to know it's safe 99% of the time and that it's not a matter of if that 1% will come up, but when. When it happens it can and will likely cause far more damage then any clay towel. With my current business model there is no place for it other then on glass.

 

[wdmaccord]

I chose 70-90 but that is before claying. Including claying it can be 2.5-3 hours especially since sometimes I'll do a RW after claying.

 

[Accumulator]

I've used [the CWB] enough to know it's safe 99% of the time and that it's not a matter of if that 1% will come up, but when..

I bet that David won't really argue that one...one of those "how lucky do you feel" things. Eh, every now and then I somehow catch an abrasive speck of ?something? in my nice plush drying towel and do almost as much damage as I would've with my CWB. Well, not that serious I guess because with the CWB you're almost certainly gonna be using long, sweeping motions resulting in a long, sweeping scratch. And if I don't [screw] up, uh-oh...big "if" there...I won't be doing those kind of motions with a towel.

 

[David Fermani]

Towels have nap to lift away and/or cushion the amount of pressure being applied to the dirt particle, the water blade just drags it across the paint. I've used it enough to know it's safe 99% of the time and that it's not a matter of if that 1% will come up, but when. When it happens it can and will likely cause far more damage then any clay towel. With my current business model there is no place for it other then on glass.

I think it's a mute point that towels are gentler when wiping a surface that could (or could not) have left over debris. My point is that the likelihood of debris being on the surface after doing a proper pressure washer rinse is far less than the 1% that you stated. And then adding the likelihood that this isolated dirt particle is going to get lodged into the blade of the tool causing it to rub against the paint is even less likely seeing that water is being pushed in the 1st place anyways. And then add more unlikeliness because you are avoiding areas (moldings and upper 1/2 of vehicle) where any potential debris might not have been totally flushed from. I'd have to say that this is pretty improbable if proper care, caution and understanding is being utilized.


If you follow this same rationale I quoted you could also have potential chaos when claying your car too. (clay or clay towel for that matter) There's a chance that as you spray clay lube onto the surface that it could dislodge a dirt particle from a crevice and get lodged into your clay bar/towel and get rubbed with relateively hard over the surface. How many people has this really happened to? Are we going to start suggesting to people that before claying that you dry the vehicle 100%, blow out any potential water holing debris from areas that will get clayed to avoid this potential debris from coming in contact with the clay bar/towel causing scratching ? There's a limit to the hurdles I'm willing to jump over to detail a car. I'm going to reduce potential threats by relying on experience, caution and common sense and get from point A to Z as quickly as possible.

 

[Accumulator]

David Fermani- Noting that I don't really have a dog in this fight, and that you and I *KNOW* we can discuss stuff (and even agree-to-disagree...e.g., "waxing fresh paint!")...

The long, sweeping motions used with a CWB (yeah, a pet peeve of mine) make it a very different proposition than claying, where it's easy enough to work very small areas with very short/limited motions. OK, maybe my nutty-extreme claying isn't the norm, but it does keep coming to mind whenever I think of the blades (which I used on the A8's glass yesterday) and makes me question the CWB-clay analogy.

With my vehicles, there's a *VERY* definite risk of something migrating from under trim/molding/etc. and then marring the paint. Just the way they're built; no matter how careful/meticulous I am, it can happen and it *has* happened.

So eh, who cares huh?!? We've brought all the potential issues to light, everybody oughta know the potential risks involved, and people are gonna do what they're gonna do.

 

[jtford95]

About an hour and a half

 

[David Fermani]

With my vehicles, there's a *VERY* definite risk of something migrating from under trim/molding/etc. and then marring the paint. Just the way they're built; no matter how careful/meticulous I am, it can happen and it *has* happened.

.

So what if you avoid blading these areas that have moldings and stick to large molding free parts of panels? If you rinse properly (top down), the dirt particles will drop down to areas that won't get bladed.

 

[Accumulator]

David Fermani- Heh heh, yeah...you got me there. And if I weren't such a marring-paranoid SOB I'd use the CWB more often and I bet things would be OK.

BUT...as if it knew we were discussing this...the other day I washed the A8 (thoroughly ), blew the water off with the Air Wand and started misting on my drying aid and MFing it dry. YIKES, a speck of something black and very abrasive on the roof of the car! Clean car, clean shop...what the..?!?...Good thing it was black and thus easy to see on the silver paint. [Stuff] happens, huh? In this case, what undoubtedly happend was that my blowing-dry step dislodged the speck-o'-whatever and deposited it there. And NO I'm not gonna ditch my AirWand ^_^

I do think I'm gonna start using it on the hood of the Tahoe, which needs reshot anyhow. We'll see if that results in something new and awful. ASSuming I can really bring myself to do it.

 

[David Fermani]

David Fermani-
I do think Im gonna start using it on the hood of the Tahoe, which needs reshot anyhow. Well see if that results in something new and awful. ASSuming I can really bring myself to do it.

Any updates on this??

 

[Detailology Oz]

I went with the longest, but two things have me scratching my head:

1) the implication that one only does those areas for a "full detail" as opposed to doing a regular maintenance wash.

2) most any one of those areas atakes me a lot of time whenever I do even just a regular wash.

If doing a full/corrective detail I do everything pretty much the same way except Im doing the wash with ABC instead of my regular shampoo and I do more disassembly.

I must be missing something here, and I suspect Im an outlier, but how can somebody do this stuff in 90 minutes? I work *FAST*, but doing all this stuff simply takes time. What...maybe a dozen surfaces on a trunk/hood/door hinge (some requiring swabs); dozens of slots in a grille; backsides of wheel spokes; removing license plates if correcting/LSPing...and then theres the undercarriage and engine compartment! Theres just a lot to do!

If you were doing high end work Id say do all that
however if its lower end work, I wouldnt be going anywhere near that far

I can have a car washed and prepped (just wheels/tyres and body) in 15 mins including prep towel and iron remover
thats with two guys or 30 mins for myself

however as to what David said it had to include, between 60 and 90 mins really
I can do a basic engine bay clean with foam gun, high pressure and a little steam if needed in five minutes
but I do offer a service thats bottom then top of engine on the hoist

spend the amount of time according to the level of service you offer

And the fastest way to wet wash is with the zero bucket method. buckets waste time and are inferior in terms of preventing marring even with grit guards

 

[Accumulator]

If you were doing high end work Id say do all that
however if its lower end work, I wouldnt be going anywhere near that far..spend the amount of time according to the level of service you offer..

Note that I only my own vehicles and theyre all basically kept in concours condition; if I see anything thatd be worth a tenth-of-a-point I usually address it. Yeah...every wash. As often say, the first and last hours of even the quickest wash are spent on the undercarriage and engine compartment. Every time.

Any updates on..[using the CWB on certain parts of the Tahoe]..??

Actually, *yes* Ive been using it on the Tahoes hood with no issues. BUT...theres virtually ("virtually" as opposed to "literally" ) no chance of any contamination being on that particular panel after the three/more wash steps. But use it on one of the good cars? Not on your life.