Zymöl Vintage... what do you charge?

[Barry Theal]

I think personally if I ever get the money to afford one of those cars your working with Jesse. Here is the thing, we are all men. Maybe in general most of us want something that we can't have. If you can't get it you want it. Now I think about this, I got enough to afford a 250,000 dollar car, sure I'm gonna want to put the best on it. If someone can provide me a wax that is x amount of dollars do i really care what the wax is. Its kinda like how i feel. YOu see me you may not know i got a 19 inch penis, but i feel good about it lol Its bragging rights. thats all. Same concept you see a guy with a ferrari he has no clue its the craftsmen ship. He thinks he got a 2000 wax. It makes him feel like me great! lmao I'd tell ya to market that **** like its a 18 year old virgin saying come take!

 

[Apollo_Auto]

I think personally if I ever get the money to afford one of those cars your working with Jesse. Here is the thing, we are all men. Maybe in general most of us want something that we can't have. If you can't get it you want it. Now I think about this, I got enough to afford a 250,000 dollar car, sure I'm gonna want to put the best on it. If someone can provide me a wax that is x amount of dollars do i really care what the wax is. Its kinda like how i feel. YOu see me you may not know i got a 19 inch penis, but i feel good about it lol Its bragging rights. thats all. Same concept you see a guy with a ferrari he has no clue its the craftsmen ship. He thinks he got a 2000 wax. It makes him feel like me great! lmao I'd tell ya to market that **** like its a 18 year old virgin saying come take!

Cheers buddy! After all these cars are just "extensions" anyway so why not extend it a little more with a $2000 wax?!

 

[Barry Theal]

LMFAO and people wonder why i drive a pinto.

 

[MarcHarris]

i totally understand having a product like ZV when you not only have clients like jesse does, but also the skills to provide the best of services to those clients like jesse does.



I think 99% of the pro-style detailers here will agree ZV isn't going to give a better look then the other nice waxes out there. Surely it has a unique and nice look, but better?

I think 99% of the world's population will agree a Ferrari isn't going to get you from point A to point B "better" than all the other cars out there. Surely it will help you arrive quickly, in style, and make you feel good, but better?



Jesse's idea is to market a high-class item to a high-class crowd. A crowd which already wants "best of the best" type of products. Based off of cost you pretty much posted yourself, if you AT LEAST charge $50/coat then you're at least even. At $100 you make double of what you spent, at $150 you make triple off your investment, etc, etc. If I had a client list like Jesse, I'd buy ZV in a second.

How do you justify the additional cost to the owner? "You're looking to pay me $xxxx to work on your vehicle that's already worth $xxx,xxx. If you want the rarest, most expensive, and most sought after wax I have to be used, it'll only be another $xxx."

Will ZV last longer / provide a better durability / fight nature (acid rain, bird poo, etc) better than other high class waxes? I doubt it. But in the same breath, I didn't buy Dodo Juice SN because I thought it would either.

 

[Legacy]

If you want the best of the best, you got to pay for it. The rest is mute.

 

[RIDDLE]

You can charge whatever you see fit,but unless you are a Zymol licenced detailer i would not fancy your chances of getting your container refilled when it empties.

i dont even have this wax but does anyone know for sure what the deal would be with this? would zymol hold out on refills if they find out youve been charging without a license? just curious.

 

[GoudyL]

Not sure about the durability of it, but I'm sure it's got to be longer than the average wax on the market.

Why? At the very least Zymol doesn't claim in its marketing that it contains ingredients known to promote durable wax films (with the possible exception of montan wax, which is not that special)

I mean other than putting an absurd price tag on it they must have something other than a swanky box to justify the price, no?

Why? If they can get the high price without doing anything special, why do anything different.

See above comment to Bob about "free" refills . Also, don't forget that there's millions of people out there that still think a Breitling tells time better than a Casio... these are the people I intend to market with this.

Looks like Zymol sucessfully marketed you.

Duly noted, cheers for the head's up (heard that elsewhere too). BUT, for the money that one could possibly make even at a modest upgrade charge with one 22 oz. pot of the "Z"... Let's look at it this way: I can wax (rough estimate) 40 cars with one 200ml tub of wax. 1 tub of this stuff=130 cars... I think one could afford to live without refills .

IMHO you ought to investigate becoming an official Zymol detailer if you intend to advertise your offerings.



BTW: I would charge $120 or so, and I'm somewhat dubious that you could use just 5ml per car.

 

[GoudyL]

You bring up a very valid argument. How many people with high end vehicles even know what Zymol is or can even distinguish this product from anything else? I'd love to hear the sales pitch trying to up sell a wealthy client an expensive wax.

Ralph Lauren uses Zymol over all other brands . You should too. (and 1000x other variations)

How anyone can justify something exorbitant like this without any real tangible benefit is beyond my perception. Maybe customers(or forum peers) perceive detailers that utilize these expensive products as more knowledgeable than the mortals in the industry that only use basic LSPs?

Pretty much it's Veblen's theory of conspicious consumption combined with male/female penis envy.

 

[Apollo_Auto]

Why? At the very least Zymol doesn't claim in its marketing that it contains ingredients known to promote durable wax films (with the possible exception of montan wax, which is not that special)

I won't be able to comment personally on the durability for some time, but I have heard other claims of excellent durability. Could have something to do with it being an enzyme? Guess I'll just have to wait and see!

Why? If they can get the high price without doing anything special, why do anything different.

True...

Looks like Zymol sucessfully marketed you.

Well if being convinced that I can make a substantial profit with it means being "marketed", then yes I suppose they have . Though my other high-end waxes have already convinced me of that...

IMHO you ought to investigate becoming an official Zymol detailer if you intend to advertise your offerings.



BTW: I would charge $120 or so, and I'm somewhat dubious that you could use just 5ml per car.

I'll have to look into that and see what being an official detailer entails (fees of course, but...). Actually, I can probably wax a car with less than 5ml... I spread it very thinly, which is all you need. Here's a couple of pictures (my server is down right now so I'll attach). $120-$150 sounds about like what I've planned.



Here's a tub of Hard Candy that I've already scooped out a 10ml sample from for a friend... I've also waxed at least 12 cars with it aside from that, including my own that provided durability for more than 4 months during the winter. The 2nd is a pot of Supernatural that I've waxed more than 15 cars with... It can be done. I've also got a tub of Concorso that's a little more than 1/2 empty that's going on about 18 cars.

 

[BobD]

You bring up a very valid argument. How many people with high end vehicles even know what Zymol is or can even distinguish this product from anything else? I'd love to hear the sales pitch trying to up sell a wealthy client an expensive wax. How anyone can justify something exorbitant like this without any real tangible benefit is beyond my perception. Maybe customers(or forum peers) perceive detailers that utilize these expensive products as more knowledgeable than the mortals in the industry that only use basic LSPs?

Not only that but Zymol can be bought at your local parts store. How many people are going to say, "Zymol? WTF? I can buy that for $2.00 at AutoZone."

 

[BobD]

OK but would you buy a pot of it and put it on a Fiesta and a Ferrari and charge them the same price? Don't forget the refills aren't actually "free". I think it costs about $400 for shipping, admin, etc. so basically the big "Z" is getting your money again...

I'd never pay $2100 for a wax unless it would somehow safe my life. LOL

 

[CocheseUGA]

I think it's been brought up that the Zymol (yeah, I don't remember the ASCII shortcut) you find in retail stores is just a rebrand of something generic. I can't speak to that, but it makes sense.



What doesn't make sense is buying something just because it costs more. Most people who have money didn't get it by spending extra money for a wax that, so far at least to me, has only been shown to excel in marketing. I'd like to see a 50-50 on a high end car between this and say, a $200 wax. Would there even be a discernable difference? At some point, you're spending money just to spend money.

 

[BobD]

I think it's been brought up that the Zymol (yeah, I don't remember the ASCII shortcut) you find in retail stores is just a rebrand of something generic. I can't speak to that, but it makes sense.



What doesn't make sense is buying something just because it costs more. Most people who have money didn't get it by spending extra money for a wax that, so far at least to me, has only been shown to excel in marketing. I'd like to see a 50-50 on a high end car between this and say, a $200 wax. Would there even be a discernable difference? At some point, you're spending money just to spend money.

That is a huge part of marketing though. Look at Cadillac. A lot of people pay for a Cadillac SUV when they could of had an almost identical Chevy for a lot less. Why? Because they want that Cadillac shield on the grill. While I usually agree with, "You get what you pay for." I also believe their is a limit. I can see paying $2000 for a wax with a life time of free refills, if they are FREE and if I used the wax as much as I use water. But I can promise that the majority of the people buying these waxes are buying them because..."it cost so much it must be the best..." BUT, if I had had a ton of money I'd be buying all of the expensive stuff just to say I have it. LOL Like I ride a Kawasaki Drifter and love it. But if I had some big bucks I'd rather be in a $200,000 custom one off bike. They both would get me from point A to B but one would cost $170,000 more. LOL If you got the cash I say go for it.

 

[CocheseUGA]

That is a huge part of marketing though. Look at Cadillac. A lot of people pay for a Cadillac SUV when they could of had an almost identical Chevy for a lot less. Why? Because they want that Cadillac shield on the grill. While I usually agree with, "You get what you pay for." I also believe their is a limit. I can see paying $2000 for a wax with a life time of free refills, if they are FREE and if I used the wax as much as I use water. But I can promise that the majority of the people buying these waxes are buying them because..."it cost so much it must be the best..." BUT, if I had had a ton of money I'd be buying all of the expensive stuff just to say I have it. LOL Like I ride a Kawasaki Drifter and love it. But if I had some big bucks I'd rather be in a $200,000 custom one off bike. They both would get me from point A to B but one would cost $170,000 more. LOL If you got the cash I say go for it.

I could at least justify paying more for a Caddy than a Chevy. Even if you're simply massaging ego, you get the Caddy crest on the grill. Something people can see. And for a more practical approach, the Caddy may come with more standard features or options and better styling that aren't available on the Chevy.



How can the average person, or even an expert, tell the difference between this and say, Swissvax? THat's why I'm interested in seeing a 50-50 or something similar. Because if you did a decent volume of cars a year, the Zymol may actually be a good value. You could not charge a dime extra, and end up making money due to the free refills.



But outside of decent volume detailers, I'd like to see some comparison shots.

 

[DM101]

As a owner of Vintage (about 3 years did not pay as much as it is now) I can tell you there is a difference in waxes. Photo shots won't show it but it is there. Now do I think it is a $2,000 difference in it and Souveran ... No. But detailing is a hobby or sport which I choose to pay for Vintage. You can also tell it has a high nuba content.

 

[imported_Jakerooni]

There are waxes out there claiming 100% nuba (the new PS comes to mind) does that somehow now make it better than vintage at microfraction of the cost? I will give you the hobbist stance of wanting that name on your shelf and paint... But calling it better is just a fools foly. It was excellent marketing but no one has ever came on here (or anywhere else) with any sort of concrete proof that any of these high dollar waxes are any better than anything else on the shelves. (because they're not). I've had hobby's that I've fallen into the marketing for as well. I used to Race BMX on a national level. My kids did too. We had to have the best of the best to compete in our minds. In reality the titanium headsets and carbon forks didn't really add anything to the performance. Definatly didn't make us better racers. But boy did those little gidgets suck the dollars right out of my wallet... Why? Good marketing to the right person. Most of Zymol's line up is the exact same. It's not better. No one can prove it to be better in any way shape or form. But it has that "Prestigious" name and people will flock to it no matter how much it just dosen't make any sense. As a hobbiest buy all the Zymol you can afford and talk about how great it looks over a couple of beers and a BBQ with the neighbors. But as a pro level detailer... Unless you're sponsored by Zymol and paid to be their pitchman... It just dosen't make any sense at all.

 

[Less]

I'm noticing a common thread in all of these arguments. They all seem to be founded upon the assumption that rich people are willing to pay for a name, status, or flashy packaging without any real tangible benefits. I think the assumption that rich people are that stupid, and so willing to throw their money away is ridiculous.



There actually IS a big difference between a Cadillac and a Chevy. And there IS a big difference between a Rolex and a Seiko. And I'm willing to bet that there IS a difference between Zymol and other waxes.



Do you really think that Zymol just opened up one day and decided "We're going to market this wax to rich people who don't know any better so we can make more money". It's absurd.



Apollo, we had this discussion before. You charge $X to detail a ferrari. While some guy down the street charges something less to detail a BMW. While yet another guy charges even less to detail a Ford. (This isn't always the case, but generally speaking, I think we can all agree that the cost of a detail goes up as the value of the car goes up). Why does that happen?



Because the Ferrari owner HAS more money to spend, and is willing to spend it when he thinks his detailing dollar will get him more value. However, in return, he has the right to be more discriminating with the products and services that he chooses. He has the right to expect a higher quality of goods and services since he is paying more. Therefore, as a detailer, your quality of work, service, and reputation EARNED you the job. Therefore, you've EARNED a higher rate than the other guy. The client, through research and referrals, knows this and therefore is comfortable paying more because he KNOWS that he's getting a higher quality service.



The same goes for Zymol. They didn't just decide one day that their wax was better than the others and to charge more. Personally, I don't know what makes their wax better, but it must be something to do with their quality standards, levels of service, and proprietary formulas that EARNED them the right to charge $2100 for a tub of wax.



This is why I made my point previously about being able to answer the question when your client asks you "Why does this wax cost more".



I doubt very much that there are people out there, with the money to buy a Ferrari, who are simply dumb enough to say "I just want the most expensive, and therefore BEST, product money can buy". It's simply naive to think that just because someone has the money, means that they will spend it.

 

[Less]

But I can promise that the majority of the people buying these waxes are buying them because..."it cost so much it must be the best..."

Sorry, but that is ridiculous.



I'm not Ferrari-owner rich, but I have some disposable income and I like to spend it on detailing products. Over the years, I've used a myriad of different LSP's on my cars and there absolutely IS a difference between my $0.50/oz jar of Turtle Wax, and my $16/oz jar of Fuzion.



But I didn't just buy Fuzion because I said to myself "It costs more so it must be better". I did research on detailing forums. I looked at pictures from people who used it. I've done enough business with Autogeek and PBMA to know firsthand that they are a reputable company. Therefore, I feel comfortable believing their claims like:



The super polymers reinforce carnauba’s natural defense and promote maximum bonding to the paint.



Füzion repels water, dirt, dust, oil, and resists smudges and fingerprints.



Going further, I purchased a sample jar and tested it for myself. My results supported their claims.



So basically, I had enough money so that I could allocate more towards car wax than the average person might be able to. However, spending that money earned me the right to be more discriminating with my choice of product. Through research, referrals, testimonials, and my own testing, I decided that this particular product was worth the extra money.



That's why I made my original point in my first post in this thread. When the client asks you "Why does this wax cost more?" you had better have a good answer. The idea that someone is going to pay more just because they can and it makes them feel good is simply ridiculous.



Yes, there are people like that out there. But I doubt that there are enough of them for you to make your money back on a $2100 Zymol investment.

 

[BobD]

Ridiculous? Read post #15. There is one example right there.



"Not sure about the durability of it, but I'm sure it's got to be longer than the average wax on the market. I mean other than putting an absurd price tag on it they must have something other than a swanky box to justify the price, no? ....."

Sorry, but that is ridiculous.



I'm not Ferrari-owner rich, but I have some disposable income and I like to spend it on detailing products. Over the years, I've used a myriad of different LSP's on my cars and there absolutely IS a difference between my $0.50/oz jar of Turtle Wax, and my $16/oz jar of Fuzion.



But I didn't just buy Fuzion because I said to myself "It costs more so it must be better". I did research on detailing forums. I looked at pictures from people who used it. I've done enough business with Autogeek and PBMA to know firsthand that they are a reputable company. Therefore, I feel comfortable believing their claims like:



The super polymers reinforce carnauba’s natural defense and promote maximum bonding to the paint.



Füzion repels water, dirt, dust, oil, and resists smudges and fingerprints.



Going further, I purchased a sample jar and tested it for myself. My results supported their claims.



So basically, I had enough money so that I could allocate more towards car wax than the average person might be able to. However, spending that money earned me the right to be more discriminating with my choice of product. Through research, referrals, testimonials, and my own testing, I decided that this particular product was worth the extra money.



That's why I made my original point in my first post in this thread. When the client asks you "Why does this wax cost more?" you had better have a good answer. The idea that someone is going to pay more just because they can and it makes them feel good is simply ridiculous.



Yes, there are people like that out there. But I doubt that there are enough of them for you to make your money back on a $2100 Zymol investment.

 

[imported_Jakerooni]

The same goes for Zymol. They didn't just decide one day that their wax was better than the others and to charge more. Personally, I don't know what makes their wax better, but it must be something to do with their quality standards, levels of service, and proprietary formulas that EARNED them the right to charge $2100 for a tub of wax.



This is why I made my point previously about being able to answer the question when your client asks you "Why does this wax cost more".



I doubt very much that there are people out there, with the money to buy a Ferrari, who are simply dumb enough to say "I just want the most expensive, and therefore BEST, product money can buy". It's simply naive to think that just because someone has the money, means that they will spend it.

I beleive with every ounce of my detailing skills this is exactly what happened. Other wise in all the years of this stupid arguement going on you would think at least one person would have the answers to exactly WHY Zymol is better. The closest anyone has ever come is "Well it contains enzymes... blah blah blah" Which was quickly shown to be a "So what" arguement and proven it really didn't add to anything.. (Just like the whole "you have to use you hands to activate the enzymes... blah blah" garbage) They marketed it right. But that's all it is.. 100%. Is it a quality wax? Absolutly But I wouldn't put it above any other "Quality" wax out there. I wouldn't says it's any better than P21S, SN, Fuzion, etc etc.. I've never seen any C&B that used Vintage or any other zymol product that stood out to wher you can easily say "Wow you can really tell that's Zymol on that paint" Because it's just not any different or any better than any other decent quality wax out there... Marketing pure and simple and look at just how well it worked