zaino user open to other suggestions (need depth)
- Thread starter havabooz
- Start date
imported_memnuts
New member
havabooz said:
Most of the "fine" imperfects in our paint finishes are induced by ourselves. :scared.
No matter how careful one is or usage of careful washing and drying techniques with the best towels and shampoos we are at risk of inducing surface marring. This surface manipulation includes waxing/sealant applications. You are rubbing the surface. I try to minimize this necessary surface assaults. It is difficult because many products are sooooo much fun to work with. "Automastibation" :nixweiss
Secondly, if you follow Zaino's direction one should Z1 every 8-10 coats because even a Zaino'd finish requires chemical cleaning periodically. I am not sure how Sal's addresses this fact with clients that only use ZFX.
A couple of years ago I too was caught up in the Zaino layering chase and actually thought I had as many as 70-80 coats. Car did not look that great because I was chasing my tail with each additional coat trying to hide self-induce surface marring. Spoke to Sal and he mentioned the most important word in detailing -"PREP".
At no point did he state that more than 4-5 coats was beneficial or would augment appearance. He did emphasize that my Prep was lacking (which it was) and even sent me a sample of his prototype SMR that is going to be compatible with his polishes. :xyxthumbs
With the knowledge I have gained here and the conversation with Sal I was able to achieve great results from Z2/5 with only 3-4 coats the last time I used this product because of better finish preparation. :wavey
jasonatv22
New member
If you want to leave Zaino but still have a product line that is good enough that it has zealots too, try the Klasse system.
All In One is a non-abrasive cleaner sealant. AIO.
Sealant Glaze is a sealant like zaino that can be topped. SG.
Note: Another similarity to Zaino is that the Klasse system does not remove scratches or any other surface imperfections. Which is not a good thing, but some people fear fixing things.
I think Zaino should be bought out by Amway, to keep all the loonies in one pile. That said, I have Zaino on my wife's car, and it has been lasting since October with three layers only.
Anything past 7 layers is wasteful and you can't see it. And, NXT is probably a better product.
Disclaimer: This post contains mild flame bait. This poster thinks Zaino is a good product, but that most of it's users are ready to drink the koolaid for Sal.
All In One is a non-abrasive cleaner sealant. AIO.
Sealant Glaze is a sealant like zaino that can be topped. SG.
Note: Another similarity to Zaino is that the Klasse system does not remove scratches or any other surface imperfections. Which is not a good thing, but some people fear fixing things.
I think Zaino should be bought out by Amway, to keep all the loonies in one pile. That said, I have Zaino on my wife's car, and it has been lasting since October with three layers only.
Anything past 7 layers is wasteful and you can't see it. And, NXT is probably a better product.
Disclaimer: This post contains mild flame bait. This poster thinks Zaino is a good product, but that most of it's users are ready to drink the koolaid for Sal.
blkz28---so what exactly did you do to better the preparation of your finish?
postwood--you makea good point...and i already said that i will consider new products when my current zaino supply runs out
so am i understanding correctly that the only cure to my sickness would to be a wash and a QD instead of applying wax
although my car might not need waxes every 2 weeks it could definately use a wash
postwood--you makea good point...and i already said that i will consider new products when my current zaino supply runs out
so am i understanding correctly that the only cure to my sickness would to be a wash and a QD instead of applying wax
although my car might not need waxes every 2 weeks it could definately use a wash
havabooz said:
BINGO!
Yes, that's what I would do. Focus on the finer points, like wheel wells, wheels, and glass. Those things will make a huge difference in finished appearance.The less you have to touch your car, the less chance there is of swirling and scratching. Keep it washed to keep contaminants and dirt off the surface.
either my car has no scratch marks or they are impossible to see...im guessing its the former at this point
but my concern is this....the QD requires ALMOST as much towel rubbing on the car than when applying wax....well half as much because i dont have to take off wax but i use the same type of towels to remove wax as i use to QD so whats the diff?
but my concern is this....the QD requires ALMOST as much towel rubbing on the car than when applying wax....well half as much because i dont have to take off wax but i use the same type of towels to remove wax as i use to QD so whats the diff?
Nick T.
New member
blkZ28Conv hit the nail on the head in his post (7 or 8 posts earlier in this thread) !
IMO there are a couple of problem areas with using Zaino, and they require extra care.
Because of its clarity and reflectivity Zaino does not hide any surface defects, it actually makes them more visible! As a result surface preparation is more important than with any other product that I’ve used.
Also, Zaino is more susceptible to micro-marring than any other product that I’ve used, so great care must be exercised during washing to avoid creating very visible marring.
Mr. Zaino is usually available by telephone, and has always been very friendly and helpful when I’ve spoken with him. If you have any problems or questions don’t hesitate to give him a call.
IMO there are a couple of problem areas with using Zaino, and they require extra care.
Because of its clarity and reflectivity Zaino does not hide any surface defects, it actually makes them more visible! As a result surface preparation is more important than with any other product that I’ve used.
Also, Zaino is more susceptible to micro-marring than any other product that I’ve used, so great care must be exercised during washing to avoid creating very visible marring.
Mr. Zaino is usually available by telephone, and has always been very friendly and helpful when I’ve spoken with him. If you have any problems or questions don’t hesitate to give him a call.
imported_memnuts
New member
havabooz,
I basically shifted my emphasis. After spending quite a bit of time here at Autopia (an over-whelming amount of detailing knowledge is available on this site) I have learned to shift my appearance goal accomplishment routine more towards Prep and less towards a protectant's visual created clues to maximize my results (shine,gloss,wetness,etc).
Prep and frequency of such is dependent on the condition of your finish, exposure to elements, type of paint (CC, SS, manufacturer), skill and/or experience, tools available, patience, and no less important bravery (How aggressive should I be to eliminate this blemish?).
An excellent guide and reference e-book for finish preparation was written by DavidB (the founder/owner of Autopia). He addresses all needs (garage queen to daily driver prep), tools (PC, Rotary, clay, polishes, cleansers, etc), products (glazes, waxes, and sealants), procedures, and gives explainations on how to accomplish the "prefect finish". I highly suggest that you download this e-book.
As you spend more time here you will learn that final application products are pretty much equal on a perfect paint job. The depth, gloss, and wetness has already been max'd. Unfortunately, most of us do not have a perfect finish so we must find the product that brings us closer with a used finish to the appearance goal we have set for ourselves. Another method is tricking (altering) optics to mimic what we want for appearance. This seems to be your case because of the fact that you have a new paint job (assuming that this finish was polished to its highest optical appearance) and used a optically neutral protectant and still not meet your appearances wants. This is where experimenting with different products (initial protectants, toppers, QD's , etc) comes into play. Not cheap but not expensive either. But sooo much fun if this is the way you like to toy with your vehicle.
Check out the e-book. I still believe the first 7 or 8 chapters are free for viewing and the reminder is well worth the cash. :wavey
Frequency of washing. As often as you desire but keep in mind that paint maintenence to the highest level is more than just washing and slapping on a coat of protectant.
The more we manipulate the finish, the more frequently we must repair small blemishes. No big deal. With proper washing technique, shampoos, tools, and patience these blemishes are minor and normally eliminated or hidden temporarily by a mild polish or glaze.
I basically shifted my emphasis. After spending quite a bit of time here at Autopia (an over-whelming amount of detailing knowledge is available on this site) I have learned to shift my appearance goal accomplishment routine more towards Prep and less towards a protectant's visual created clues to maximize my results (shine,gloss,wetness,etc).
Prep and frequency of such is dependent on the condition of your finish, exposure to elements, type of paint (CC, SS, manufacturer), skill and/or experience, tools available, patience, and no less important bravery (How aggressive should I be to eliminate this blemish?).
An excellent guide and reference e-book for finish preparation was written by DavidB (the founder/owner of Autopia). He addresses all needs (garage queen to daily driver prep), tools (PC, Rotary, clay, polishes, cleansers, etc), products (glazes, waxes, and sealants), procedures, and gives explainations on how to accomplish the "prefect finish". I highly suggest that you download this e-book.
As you spend more time here you will learn that final application products are pretty much equal on a perfect paint job. The depth, gloss, and wetness has already been max'd. Unfortunately, most of us do not have a perfect finish so we must find the product that brings us closer with a used finish to the appearance goal we have set for ourselves. Another method is tricking (altering) optics to mimic what we want for appearance. This seems to be your case because of the fact that you have a new paint job (assuming that this finish was polished to its highest optical appearance) and used a optically neutral protectant and still not meet your appearances wants. This is where experimenting with different products (initial protectants, toppers, QD's , etc) comes into play. Not cheap but not expensive either. But sooo much fun if this is the way you like to toy with your vehicle.
Check out the e-book. I still believe the first 7 or 8 chapters are free for viewing and the reminder is well worth the cash. :wavey
Frequency of washing. As often as you desire but keep in mind that paint maintenence to the highest level is more than just washing and slapping on a coat of protectant.
The more we manipulate the finish, the more frequently we must repair small blemishes. No big deal. With proper washing technique, shampoos, tools, and patience these blemishes are minor and normally eliminated or hidden temporarily by a mild polish or glaze.
Nick T.
New member
"Automastibation" ????
I thought that it’s Auto-Erotica!
I thought that it’s Auto-Erotica!
maecrispy
Obsessed... who me?
Scottwax said:
I too, based on suggestions from others on this forum have made Wolfgang the system for my car. Very easy on/off and I'm very happy with the depth it shows on my Silver Acura TL. Pics are here:
http://homepage.mac.com/maecrispy/PhotoAlbum7.html
maecrispy
Obsessed... who me?
Oops, forgot to mention that 3 coats of Wolfgang is about the limit at which I see depth improvment.
The pics I posted above are after 2 coats of Wolfgang. Definitely an improvement between coats 1 and 2 but not as much between 2 and 3.
I'll probably try a 4th just to see what happens but I doubt it will do anything.
The pics I posted above are after 2 coats of Wolfgang. Definitely an improvement between coats 1 and 2 but not as much between 2 and 3.
I'll probably try a 4th just to see what happens but I doubt it will do anything.