vettefan67
New member
Has anyone tried this before? I searched and got some opinions but not much actual experience. Can't wait until Zaino gets a precleaner! 
Zaino over AIO?
- Thread starter vettefan67
- Start date
William420
New member
I wonder the same. Would Z bond to Klasse?
Why don't you just use PPCL then DAWN wash it.
Why don't you just use PPCL then DAWN wash it.
vettefan67
New member
PPCL is too harsh and Dawn doesn't strip enough for me.
imported_Intermezzo
New member
I've done it with good results....though it would be hard to say if AIO compromised Zaino's crosslinking process because I've never gone more than a few months without adding a fresh Zaino layer.
G
Guest
Guest
I think it would work just fine. If you are using AIO just to clean I dont think much klasse will actually bond to the paint surface. AIO needs to setup like SG to actually provide a protective layer, or else the system wouldn't make sense. AIO would be like ZFX SG if it actually provided a lot of protection. So I think zaino should bond just dandy over AIO.
vettefan67
New member
AIO is a substitute for a dawn wash and PPCL! I don't want to wash the car 3 times in one day, ESP since it takes me so damn long!
DETAILKING
New member
I would dawn wash and clay and then zaino. Zaino bonds best on paint and to itself. Don't shortcut the prepping, you will kick youself later down the road when Zaino is not as durable as it could be. The first coat is the most important because it provides a base and foundation for the polish bed and subsequent layers. If you don't like PPCL, try out P21S prep, it is supposed to be milder. I don't find PPCL that harsh anyhow, what are your concerns? I would call sal. He will tell you what precleaners you can use that are compatible with zaino with no washing in between............
vettefan67
New member
I'm not short cutting prep IMO. Here's the planned process:
Detail interior (done yesterday)
Wash truck well with Dawn
Clay (Clay Magic)
Wash with Meguiar's GC, dry
Polish - PC yellow pad, Meguiar's Dual Action Cleaner / Polish
Polish - To be determined (SMR + Dawn, Zissimer if I have enough, AIO)
ZFX Z5 * 3. Next day, Z2 if I have the patience.
I thought AIO would be a good follow up for the DAC/P.
Detail interior (done yesterday)
Wash truck well with Dawn
Clay (Clay Magic)
Wash with Meguiar's GC, dry
Polish - PC yellow pad, Meguiar's Dual Action Cleaner / Polish
Polish - To be determined (SMR + Dawn, Zissimer if I have enough
, AIO)ZFX Z5 * 3. Next day, Z2 if I have the patience.
I thought AIO would be a good follow up for the DAC/P.
DETAILKING
New member
After polishing you might not need another step before zainoing besides a wash. Wash the car and evaluate. If you do need another step though, my vote goes to Zissimer......
vettefan67
New member
Arterion said:
Wash 1 is to remove dirt -- the truck's filthy. I'm using Dawn for extra cut precleaning because I know there are a lot of contaminants. No need to dry after this wash.
Wash #2 after claying to remove clay and lubricant residue from the paint. I like using carwash soap and water as a clay lube and I don't want the wash to attack the polish I use nor do I want to be rubbing clay on my paint with a PC. This wash isn't really required but I do it.
Dawn wash after polishing - It's recommended that you remove the oils and fillers from the polish when using sealants with no cleaners because they could possibly interfere with bonding of the sealant to the paint.
Hope that explained it! If not, I'd be more than happy to answer any other questions. :wavey
imported_Intermezzo
New member
Arterion,
When they say polish, what they really mean is both polish & clean. Most of those 3M and meguiar's swirl-removers are actually combination polish/cleaners. In other words, they contain polishing agents (oils and fillers) as well as cleaning agents (abrasives and high solvents).
In order to properly remove surface imperfections when prepping your car, you need the cleaning action that these swirl-removers provide. The oils that are also in these products are pretty useless and incompatible when it comes to using polymer sealants. In fact, it is necessary to remove them before applying your sealant in order to allow for proper bonding to your paint.
Polymer sealants rely on the polymer itself to provide the shine and protection.........whereas the shine provided by carnauba waxes will highly benefit from the oils provided by a pre-wax polish/cleaner.
When they say polish, what they really mean is both polish & clean. Most of those 3M and meguiar's swirl-removers are actually combination polish/cleaners. In other words, they contain polishing agents (oils and fillers) as well as cleaning agents (abrasives and high solvents).
In order to properly remove surface imperfections when prepping your car, you need the cleaning action that these swirl-removers provide. The oils that are also in these products are pretty useless and incompatible when it comes to using polymer sealants. In fact, it is necessary to remove them before applying your sealant in order to allow for proper bonding to your paint.
Polymer sealants rely on the polymer itself to provide the shine and protection.........whereas the shine provided by carnauba waxes will highly benefit from the oils provided by a pre-wax polish/cleaner.
My thoughts:
1) If you're going to wash off the polish, why not use a pure cleaner instead?
2) Fillers in swirl-removal products will be washed away if you wash after you polish, thus making it useless to use them.
3) Isn't Zanio an acrylic?
4) Other polymer-based, or let's just say "non-carnuba" waxes (such as meguiar's gold class, Medallion preium paint protection, autoglym, blackfire, perfect-it show car wax, etc.) all are reccomended to be used AFTER a polish/cleaner product, with no washing between.
5) Klasse seems to have bonded just fine on top of my pure polish, without destroying the polish's "wet-look" shine.
1) If you're going to wash off the polish, why not use a pure cleaner instead?
2) Fillers in swirl-removal products will be washed away if you wash after you polish, thus making it useless to use them.
3) Isn't Zanio an acrylic?
4) Other polymer-based, or let's just say "non-carnuba" waxes (such as meguiar's gold class, Medallion preium paint protection, autoglym, blackfire, perfect-it show car wax, etc.) all are reccomended to be used AFTER a polish/cleaner product, with no washing between.
5) Klasse seems to have bonded just fine on top of my pure polish, without destroying the polish's "wet-look" shine.
vettefan67
New member
What is a "Pure Polish" as you use the term, Arterion?
On this board a "polish" is used to mean an abrasive product which is used to remove swirl marks or other paint imperfections, not an oily filling glaze, which is what it sounds like you are saying.
Can you explain to me why polishes (ABRASIVE) are useless if the fillers go away? My preference is to remove swirlmarks completely or nearly completely so that I don't need to fill them in with these non-durable glazes. I don't want any fillers from polishes (abrasive) to remain!
What is it you mean by asking if Zaino is acrylic? Zaino is different from those other products you listed. A good percentage of those that you listed contain cleaning elements and none last as long as a properly applied coat(s) of Zaino.
Thanks for your thoughts! I value everybody's input here :xyxthumbs
On this board a "polish" is used to mean an abrasive product which is used to remove swirl marks or other paint imperfections, not an oily filling glaze, which is what it sounds like you are saying.
Can you explain to me why polishes (ABRASIVE) are useless if the fillers go away? My preference is to remove swirlmarks completely or nearly completely so that I don't need to fill them in with these non-durable glazes. I don't want any fillers from polishes (abrasive) to remain!
What is it you mean by asking if Zaino is acrylic? Zaino is different from those other products you listed. A good percentage of those that you listed contain cleaning elements and none last as long as a properly applied coat(s) of Zaino.
Thanks for your thoughts! I value everybody's input here :xyxthumbs
imported_Intermezzo
New member
Arterion said:
Ok, now this is becoming a confusion in semantics, because you certainly do make some excellent points. Let's just assume that the products most people use are combination polish/cleaners. Because to be honest, that's what most products used here are..... eg. PPCL, P21S GEPC, 3M SMR, Meguiar's #9, etc.
To answer your questions:
1. Can you name me a product that is a PURE cleaner that isn't too strong? Finesse-It 2 comes to mind, but as you may know already, that is a relatively strong product and only a few people here (like BradB!) are able to use it and leave a nice marr-free surface. Meguiar's clear-coat scrub? Pretty strong too...and not that great of a product.
2. I agree, but most swirl-removers also contain cleaners (or abrasives) that help physically remove swirls as well.
3. Actually, Klasse is marketed as an acrylic. But what does that mean? An acrylic is just another type of polmer. Both Klasse and Zaino rely on bonding (or cross-linking) to your car on a molecular level and any oils left over from prepping your surface could compromise the durability of both Klasse SG and Zaino.
4. Actually, those products, with the exception of Autoglym, are not really polymer-based. They market themselves as polymer based, but you don't really get any true crosslinking of polymers when you throw in a bunch of polymers to a mixture of oils and waxes. Polymers in this situation do not add to the durability of the product. I've used a few of those products you listed and there is no way they will last 6 months on your car.
5. That's terrific! But in the early days of this forum, many members did the same thing before they had a better understanding of the way a true polymer sealant bonded to their paint. Subsequently, their shine would only last 2 months using Klasse SG on top of 3M IHG. Not saying that's bad or anything...it's just that on a properly prepped substrate, Klasse will last 6 months or more.
puterbum said:
And I quote:
Meguiar's No. 7 Show Car Glaze is a pure polish.
http://www.properautocare.com/megsno7showc.html
Machine Glaze is a pure polish.
http://www.properautocare.com/megno3macpol.html
And also this:
No. 2 Fine Cut Cleaner will remove most stains, blemishes, scratches, swirls, water spots and oxidation with ease. Buffered abrasives break down...
http://www.properautocare.com/megsno2fincu.html
Polishes shouldn't be abrasive. If you have an abrasive labeled as a polish, it is being mismarketed. A polish adds oils and nutrients to the paint, nothing more. Cleaners are sometimes abrasive. A "pure polish" is simply a polish without cleaners (or abrasives) in it. A pure cleaner would, conversely, be a cleaner without polishing properties.
Now, if you want to abrade all your swirls away everytime you wax, by my guest, though I doubt your clearcoat will last long. I also doubt you will be able to find many polish/cleaner combos that are abrasive.
So, now that we have established that polishes aren't abrasive, as you seem to think they are, it should be obvious why they are useless if you wash them away. It's like wiping on oils, nurtients, and filling swirls, then stripping it all away. The only time it would be useful is if you're using a polish/cleaner to clean the paint, and don't really care about the polish.
The other products I listed are different from Zanio. Very astute of you to notice that. However, they are all synthetic polymer forumlas, and the manafacturers of each suggest you use a polish before applying them for a wet-look shine. The reason say is that because someone said:
"The oils that are also in these products are pretty useless and incompatible when it comes to using polymer sealants. In fact, it is necessary to remove them before applying your sealant in order to allow for proper bonding to your paint."
As for Klasse not lasting as long on top of polish, that's fine. I am willing to sacrifice some durability to have the "wet-look" that is offered by a pure polish.