Winter Wheels

[mobiledynamics]

Nokians hands down.

At least this thread in in the right direction for auto owners with the right mindset...winters for winters, summers for summers....skip the ~no seasons~

 

[Accumulator]

.. the right mindset...winters for winters, summers for summers....skip the ~no seasons~

One wildcard- On some of mine I have to run All-Seasons because even though they don`t get driven in snow, they*do* get driven in cold temps upon occasion, cold enough that Summer tires aren`t appropriate. Fortunately, there are AS tires that handle OK these days (Michelin Pilot A/S even did OK in AutoX, though they sure did wear fast).

When soliciting advice from reps, I ask for "the best tires for running a SCCA Autocross in the rain on a 40° day", which probably makes `em wonder since I`m outfitting big sedans or even the Tahoe.

 

[Surly]

Yep - I enjoy having real summer tires for summer driving, but you do need to watch the weather forecast to make sure you aren`t caught out. Probably getting Pilot Sport 4S for this car in the spring. Maybe A/S3+, but probably 4S.

I`m generally sold on Michelin`s Pilot line for summer tires. Not that I haven`t run other brands, but recent experiences have me won over. Winters, on the other hand, I`m not so sold on. I`ve seen more than a handful of cars with nice expensive Pilot Alpins or X-Ice tires and a huge double-row of weights to get them to balance. Sure, it could be idiots at the tire shop or a bent wheel, but I see it on Michelin winter tires more often than could be co-incidence....

So - Nokians hands down even though I might be driving in 27F brine most of the time?

 

[Accumulator]

Surly- Be sure the Pilot A/S version you get is suitable for *YOUR* car. The A/S 3 proved to be the wrong choice for my wife`s A8. I`m probably gonna go with something else, from somebody else, on the Crown Vic, sure never thought I`d say that!

How *do* people with Summer Tires deal with cold weather...do they just park `em? I ran Summer Max Performance Tires on the S8 and it was a genuine handful on cold-but-clear days, and not just until they "warmed up" or anything, they were the wrong tire for those conditions.

 

[The Driver]

I have WS70`s on my R an they are amazing. Zero complaints.

 

[Surly]

@Accumulator: On cold/clear days down to about -5C anyways, any summer max tires I`ve had were still better than all season and winter tires in those same conditions. (hence I don`t agree with all the marketing saying 7C is the crossover for winter tires - but anyways) I have experience with Bridgestone S-02PP, Toyo T1S, Toyo T1R, and Michelin PS2 on a couple of different cars. The Toyo T1S were hairy in the wet below +5C - very sharp drop off in grip. Haven`t observed the same with Michelin. I think I had the S-02PPs out in closer to -10C one time (since that was a summer-only car with no winter tires) but I was just transporting it and didn`t "try anything".

 

[Accumulator]

Surly- Thanks for that additional info! This is something I`ll need to get right when I finally pull the trigger on new tires for the Crown Vic, don`t want to have an unpleasant surprise when really pushing the envelope, especially in the wet.

Gotta say that the first generation of the Michelin Pilot A/S was an incredibly good tire (at least on that model of car) and not just for an A/S, not just great grip and braking performance, but nice gradual break-away behavior..just so easy to drive right at the edge. Absolutely *faultless* in the wet. One of the few vehicle/tire combos that I was 100% satisfied with.

 

[Surly]

I`ve heard a lot of good buzz for the AS3+ on my vehicle. I think I`ll still go summer max performance though.

On my winter tire situation - WS80 is out of the running since they don`t make it in my size. So it`s between the Michelin PA4 and Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2. Hmmm.

 

[Surly]

Ordered Hakka R2s (sorry, I know this was a wheel thread)

 

[atgonzales]

Surly...when you get them please give them a review and we can wait for the Winter review and again please you have my curiosity pique

 

[Surly]

@atgonzales: I`m expecting -- 1/ they`ll be really soft 2/ on the dry they`ll turn most control input into an "rrrrrrip" type sound instead of a change in speed or direction 3/ whether they`ll be worth it will depend on how severe a winter mother nature throws at me 4/ excellent fuel economy 5/ lots of traction control lights.

I have, however, determined through personal experience with various tires (including older Hakka RSi) and reading online that really sensitive traction control systems trigger just from the tread squirm and you aren`t actually spinning up the tires. This is consistent with my past observations, anyways. Think of taking a simple plastic comb and running a finger tip across it, making a "rrrrip" sound. That`s (good) winter tires in the dry.

 

[Surly]

Managed to get the C5 on the wheels today and put them back in storage for now.

Used less C5 than I expected - hope I used enough. Couldn`t see where I had applied to judge whether there was enough. It was completely invisible on the surface (metallic paint + clearcoat) though it resulted in a "squeaky feel" while I was applying.

I bought a 30mL bottle hoping to do both my winter and summer wheels. I ended up using 10mL at most, and I did full barrels and all. They`re 18x8.5J wheels.

 

[arthur]

Above and beyond there, lol. We just run steelies with no hubcaps. It does look a little goofy going from 18" low pro to base model 16" steels. Not even going to mention the nagging TPMS light with the absence of the sensors.

Are TPMS the biggest rip off of the motoring public, or what? a Doz morons deflated their explorer tires and then failed the tires and rolled the truck. so, now the rest of us are stuck with these friggin things that cost 75$ ea, complicate having winter wheels as you say, and don`t last forever. When they fail, you get code on the dash and you wont get inspected with the code showing.

Write your representatives.

 

[Accumulator]

arthur- Welcome to Autopia!

I`d never drive any vehicle without a start-of-day preflight inspection, and yeah...like you, I have no use for TPMS (which only one of our vehicles has). But I gotta say that my not-into-vehicles friends actually find TPMS useful.

Note that the Ford Explorer thing was significantly exacerbated by Ford`s too-low recommended inflation pressures. Not the only time they`ve done that either...nonsense (well, it`s nonsense to *me*) like even tire wear and an artificially softened ride apparently helps sell vehicles. At least it helps sales to people who don`t *really* want what certain vehicles inherently are! E.g., their recommended pressures for Crown Vics is *WAY* below what provides optimum handling, and just a few psi under that recommended pressure is enough to cause rim-to-pavement contact during emergency maneuvers. But people like long tire life and even tire wear, and a softer ride than a body-on-frame vehicle is naturally gonna provide.

 

[Surly]

Managed to get the C5 on the wheels today and put them back in storage for now.

The Hakkas are now on. ^_^

 

[Lonnie]

The Hakkas are now on. ^_^

Surly:
Doesn`t your Canadian providence of Ontario mandate by provincial law that ALL vehicles driven in winter have snow-and-ice rated/designated tires on them??
I am just wondering how much of an effect that has on the reduction of the number of winter-related accidents in your providence.
I only ask because I think I saw a statistic that the Ontario government analyzed winter accident reports before this law and found that 90% of those accidents involved vehicles WITHOUT snow-and-ice designated tires on them (IE, they were running summer-only or an all-season tire compound/tread designation), which was the impetus to pass this winter tire requirement legislation.

Would that type of legislation pass as a law in my northern USA state of Wisconsin? While a great idea, the cost factor to force winter drivers to have snow-and-ice designated tires would probably kill such a law. We have a mandatory car insurance law in Wisconsin and a small minority of drivers drive without insurance because they cannot afford it, for any number of reasons. How could they afford a set of winter tires?

Long ago in the late `60`s-early `70`s, snow tires could be studded to improve traction on ice and snow-packed roads in Wisconsin. They did, indeed, do just that. BUT, people ran them into late May and on bare roads those hardened-steel studs chewed up the roads so bad, they cause grooves to be formed in concrete highways and eventually Wisconsin outlawed the use of studded tires because of the road degradation they caused. I ended up pulling the studs out of my fathers snow tires with a plyers so they could be used as legal "conventional" snow tires on his car. Studs made such a whining sound on a bare road, much like your fore-mentioned finger nail raking across the teeth of a plastic comb, and it was easy to tell who still had studded tires on a vehicle! I tell this bit of winter tire history because I am old enough to remember it and it is a parallel (but definitely not the same) story to current winter tires and driving.

 

[Surly]

Surly:
Doesn`t your Canadian providence of Ontario mandate by provincial law that ALL vehicles driven in winter have snow-and-ice rated/designated tires on them??

No it doesn`t, but I wish it did. It`s not even to the point where all insurance providers give incentive discounts (which I wish they did).

I am just wondering how much of an effect that has on the reduction of the number of winter-related accidents in your providence.

This would be nice. As it is I`ve made it a tradition for more than a decade that for the first 2-3 snows I don`t go ANYWHERE and just hide with my car garaged. When I`ve had to go out, even a light snow combined with no anti-icing, driver inexperience and the number texting, latte-sipping, inattentive drivers with bald summer tires sliding all over trying to get their kids to sports on time makes it extremely treacherous.

Once the majority get the proper tires on, and there`s some salt etc... residue down, then things get back to "normal".

I only ask because I think I saw a statistic that the Ontario government analyzed winter accident reports before this law and found that 90% of those accidents involved vehicles WITHOUT snow-and-ice designated tires on them (IE, they were running summer-only or an all-season tire compound/tread designation), which was the impetus to pass this winter tire requirement legislation.

Except me having winter tires doesn`t stop the guy behind me from plowing into me, or someone blowing through a red light into the side of me because they can`t stop.

Long ago in the late `60`s-early `70`s, snow tires could be studded to improve traction on ice and snow-packed roads in Wisconsin. They did, indeed, do just that. BUT, people ran them into late May and on bare roads those hardened-steel studs chewed up the roads so bad, they cause grooves to be formed in concrete highways and eventually Wisconsin outlawed the use of studded tires because of the road degradation they caused.

Here in Ontario, the rules are something like: you can run studded snows (with time limits Nov-May) on public roads if you have a residence in Parry Sound or north. I`m not sure if it needs to be your primary residence, or if it could be a vacation home. I had a tire shop that would put them on for me, but I passed. I was thinking of studded Hakka 7s at one point in the past.

much like your fore-mentioned finger nail raking across the teeth of a plastic comb, and it was easy to tell who still had studded tires on a vehicle!

I was referring to my Hakka RSis turning most control inputs into a rrrrrip velcro noise of the sipes and tread squirming instead of actually responding. (Unless it was, like, -15C or so). So far the Hakka R2s are superior in that regard, not that I`ve driven very far.

 

[MattPersman]

Ws80s are nice. They say at 50% there is 10% multicell compound left. And I get it cause at 50% tread on a winter tire you are less than 6/32. Cause they start at 11/32. 6/32 starts to get a little less than optimal in severe weather. You want the most depth you can get obviously.

I had a couple sets of x ice michelins. They weren`t bad really either not as good as the ws80 though

Had the Dunlop 3D on a vw thought these were a good tire for a "performance" winter

Had Yokohama w drive on a wrx and they were pretty much all seasons.

Ws60s I had on a Camaro years ago were my first winter tires and they were fantastic.

R2s is what I wanted before the ws80 for last winter but I got a very good price on the ws80 so I couldn`t pass and being blizzaks I knew they would be good

Budget sometimes trumps overall pick if it`s close.


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On our 2017 Accord sport I️ just got my wheels and tires for the winter. Continental WinterContact SI on some basic wheels (MB discount tire specials)

This is one wheel I had just applied Dlux to.

Winter wheel set over the course of a few years seems to be a wise purchase.

One 19 tire on this accord is like 260 for the tire. Thin 19s like to bend wheels too when the streets are terrible in the winter so like 600 for a wheel and tire if I️ tear one factory one up. No thanks. Plus the stopping and turning power alone with winters




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[Accumulator]

..Winter wheel set over the course of a few years seems to be a wise purchase.

I only tried swapping tires onto the regular rims a few times before I realized that the winter wheels made more sense for me. If nothing else, redoing wheels after mounting/balancing is a huge undertaking compared to just refreshing their LSP.

.. Thin 19s like to bend wheels too when the streets are terrible in the winter..

We hardly ever drive low-profile setups (let alone in the winter) any more, only have 35-series (summer) tires on the S8 these days..our roads are just too awful. "Just avoid those potholes" sounds good, but it`s simply not possible when the whole road is like that and when the lane-wide pavement breaks alone are sufficient to bend a rim. I simply don`t know how folks manage...

 

[Dan]

I`m tempting fate this year and not running winter tires. The back set of Blizzaks are too crusty and I don`t feel like buying new ones. I live just west of DC so there isn`t much snow, and TBH, you really are better off not driving around here when the roads are bad. We have a lot of cultural diverisity here and a complete lack of understanding by some folks as to what happens to roads. Mix in the goons that think they are invincable in their brand new SUV, and its just a better idea to wait 2-3 days before venturing out after a big snow fall. Thankfully my job is flexible as far as work location.

As to the TPMS hate, I concur on some fronts, but I really do like the VW implementation on the lower end cars, it uses the ABS sensors to calculate wheels speed vs actual air pressure, it works quite well, however it doesn`t tell you which tire is low, for that you have to rely on your $5 Milton.