Why is removing polish so hard?

R

RatedG

New member
HELP! PICTURES BELOW!!!



I just started a full detail and am now stuck. On my white 1993 240sx, I washed, IPA wipedown, Clayed, Rinsed, and applied 1Z (Extra) Ultra Paint Polish. I applied a whole layer of UPP with a Milwaukee electric polisher. After I completed the whole car (...some time passed) I was ready to follow that up with a polish of 1Z Paint Polish. BUT ALAS, the damn UPP haze IS SO DAMN TOUGH TO REMOVE! I was using a standard blue MF, and only a ton of elbow grease and some squirts of QD was I able to remove the polish on only HALF of my hood, in about an hour. Why is this so hard? What do I do now that the polish is dry?



Yes, this is my first time fully polishing my car. Once I remove this UPP, I need to follow it up with PP and then AIO and SG. It's 9:30 PM and dark here and I'm going back outside. No lit garage for me to work in here.



Any tips on how to remove UPP residue? Will post pics in 30 minutes.
 
don't worry about getting it all completely off if you are following it up.....1z PP would take it off and remove easier....
 
Take your time....it is a "labor of love." It isn't really hard, it is just time consuming to do it right.
 
HERE'S A PIC OF A REFLECTION OF A STREETLAMP SEEN THROUGH THE GOOD HALF OF THE HOOD:
 

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AND HERE'S ONE OF THE RELFECTION SEEN THROUGH THE POLISHED HALF. Notice in the first pic that there's still micro-marring. Tomorrow morning i'm gonna hit that with 1Z PP to clear that up. I hope removal wont be that hard again.



Should I use water to help the polish removal? Or QD? Or nothing at all besides a clean MF?
 

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In the future, do one panel at a time: polish, then wipe off.



I use 1Z and it's easy to remove this way. You don't need to let a polish dry, only waxes.
 
Aite. I've had it. 11 PM and I just got bit at least 3 times by freakin' mosquitos. 1 hour down the drain, I'm sweating and exhausted. With all this polish removal, why bother with a machine polisher. I 've created enough heat and friction and maybe a thousand passes with about 75% of my 165 lbs onto the area of a quarter inch of micro-fiber, and STILL have not completed removing the polish off of my hood. I'm attacking this tomorrow morning. Join hands and pray with me to ward off bird bombs and rain.



edit: 11:26PM -> The morning dew has already started to accumulate.
 

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aiiee said:
In the future, do one panel at a time: polish, then wipe off.



I use 1Z and it's easy to remove this way. You don't need to let a polish dry, only waxes.
Click to expand...



Don't need to let it dry? Or should it be Do Not Let It Dry (AT ALL COSTS) :)



The rest of the car has the same amount of residue seen in my second picture. Since it's going to dry rock-hard overnight, should I just go over the rest of the car with PP and remove it a panel at a time as you suggested?
 
Thanks for your help. I truly appreciate it.



Also, after UPP, I've noticed a LOT of swirls. On my friend's white civic, there were none after just UPP. It looked perfect and ready for the Klasse treatment, but I did instruct my friend to follow up with PP, which resulted in a bare minimum of improvements. Mine look VERY swirled, as you can see in my pics. Is this normal?



I know UPP and PP (as well as all good polishes) contain some amount of water. Would a hose misting of my car help soften up the dried UPP before I attack it with PP? This dry UPP feels like sandpaper under my MF. Right when I get to the point that I can't rub anymore due to the heat, the polish is mostly removed.



I do believe that when polishing my friends car, we did about 2 or 3 panels at a time and removed the polish before doing the rest of the car. We did that only because I was so eager to see the results of the 1Z, which I just took out of the wrapper.
 
I agree for the future do one panel at at time. With problems removing products try reapplying on the troubled areas and wiping it off wet. That way there is less of a chance to scratch the surface.
 
RatedG,



With a polish, there's no benefit to letting it sit on the car. All the benefit comes from the physical polishing motion. Once you've stopped polishing, wipe it off immediately so you don't have this problem again. When I'm polishing, I do a portion of a panel at a time, and when I feel that I've worked the polish long enough, I stop polishing and immediately wipe it off. Using this method, I've found that the 1Z polishes come off super easily (unless you accidentally let part of the car get in the sun and heat up).



John
 
~ One man’s opinion / observations ~



That’s good advice-one panel at a time (or a 24� x 24� section) once the polish has done it’s work wipe it off, evaluate the surface. If you are happy with the result move on to the next.



You will be able to see the results immediately and won’t have the frustration of PITA dried polish to remove from the whole car.



I hope you have a better experience next time, it really is more enjoyable (with much more pleasing results) if you take your time.



~Hope this helps ~





Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
 
Biggest mistake people make with polish! Use less, buff it out until it's almost gone, work in smaller areas. Spritz on some water if some residue still remains.



Better results, save money, avoid winging your buffer across to the neighbor's lawn.



Peggy Becker

Upscale Detail
 
RatedG- I'm assuming the Milwaukee you're using is their rotary and that you're using the appropriate foam pads. Try to only use a cutting pad as much as really necessary before switching to a polishing pad. I would *not* recommend wool for what you're doing.



Yeah as suggested, work small areas at a time and don't work the Ultra quite so long- just long enough to break down the abrasive, you'll just have to get a feel for this. Do an area, wipe it all off, inspect, repeat if needed, move to next area. Do areas about 2'x2', not entire panels.



Yeah, it's normal for Ultra to leave micromarring; maybe you just didn't see it on the white civic. It *always* leaves micromarring for me, no matter what kind of paint I use it on (or what method I use, hand, D/A, rotary). The PP will take care of that.



Judging by the pics, you're working too large an area at a time, using too much product, working it too long, and maybe working it at too high a speed. When using 1Z polishes by rotary, you need to do most of the work at *very low* speeds, well under 1,000rpms (this info is straight from 1Z) and then speed it up to maybe 1,200 rpms for the final passes. And I always remove 1Z polishes while they're still *just barely* wet, with the exception of MP and WPS.



To remove the residue, maybe try an alcohol spritzer or something similar. Then redo the areas, going slow and careful. Try to work it as uniformly as possible (so you don't see the polish lines like in your pics) and switch to the PP as soon as you've removed the worst of the marring. And FWIW, I always follow my rotary work with a pass with the PC/Cyclo just to ensure that I don't have holograms.



When you get it right, 1Z polishes wipe off as easily as any product on the market, with no real effort at all. You can use the ease/difficulty of removal as a guide to how you're doing.
 
Wait, wait, wait.



UPP = 4Star/Platinum Ultimate Paint Protection



That's the last step product; it's a "sealant." Why would you follow up with 1Z PP, an abrasive polish?



Anyway, from the pics, it looks like half swirling and half UPP smearing. Wipe it down with IPA/water and see if it gets better. Then remove the rest of your swirls with 1ZPP, and then you apply your sealant.



When/where did you buy your UPP?
 
UPP = 1Z ultra PP in this case....ahh so many acronyms...



Also, you said you put 75% of your 165lb weight into the PC, thats not good, let the machine do the work, only use like 10-15 lbs of pressure making slow passes on 6 w/ the UPP...if that dont do it then your in what I like to refer as "Ditch the PC, rookie, and get a rotary" I've reached that point on my black truck but fear the thought of using a rotary and screwing the paint up.



G'luk!
 
BW said:
Wait, wait, wait.



UPP = 4Star/Platinum Ultimate Paint Protection



That's the last step product; it's a "sealant." Why would you follow up with 1Z PP, an abrasive polish?
Click to expand...



No, it's 1Z Ultra Paint Polish, the one in the yellow can that's more aggressive than 1z Paint Polish. That's why he's following with the PP.:o
 
RatedG said:
Don't need to let it dry? Or should it be Do Not Let It Dry (AT ALL COSTS) :)



The rest of the car has the same amount of residue seen in my second picture. Since it's going to dry rock-hard overnight, should I just go over the rest of the car with PP and remove it a panel at a time as you suggested?
Click to expand...



Compounds, Paint Cleaners, Cleaner/polishes and pure polishes do not need to dry before removing. Depending upon the product, it might be easier to remove if you wipe it off immediately.



When products are hard to remove, you can three things to improve removal,



1) Spray on some quick detailer help liquefy and loosen the product. I do this with sometimes with ScratchX, #82 and #83



2) Switch to a terry cloth towel with a plush nap, the little cotton loops that make up the nap will help you to slice into and break up the film of product.



3) Worst case scenario, reapply the same product to the difficult, or dried product. Like products will often times remove themselves. While this is a last step solution, sometimes you are better off reapplying a small amount of the same product that you are having a difficult time removing as it will help to re-liquefy itself and make removal easier without, (hopefully), altering the work or results you have produced.



Mike
 
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