Why are DA's so popular?

When I see someone say they took ten hours on paint correction using a DA :wall

I'm old fat and lazy, so 10 hours for me would be on the short end.

When I had my old JB BMW, if it was in bad need of correction, it could take a lot longer than that

I will say that I am somewhat put off by your comment or sense somewhat of a superior feeling or more of a volume detailer.

Just got a new car, and the way I figure it will take 2-3 of us a good 5-8 hours to get to the point that it's done. And that's just the outside.

Again, I'm old fat and lazy, and I CARE ABOUT THE FINISHED PRODUCT
 
Its still all about knowledge of the tool, knowledge of what the finished product has to be like, and then applying that knowledge perfectly, day in, and day out...

And the KEY WORD - INNOVATION....

I too, am amazed all the time, when I see, yes, totally respectable, high class shops, with very smart and talented people, still turning out swirled and hologrammed paintwork...

The Auto Auctions on TV are just sad to watch sometimes, as long lines of beautiful cars come by and when the light hits them just right, yeah - they are all marked up..:(

The one thing that probably hurts Rotary Power more than anything else is that because it IS fast and powerful, and can do things in a short amount of time, people use them ONLY for this and totally Forget, Ignore, or just dont look at the car outside afterwards, to see the mess their guy/s left simply because they didnt keep the pad flat with the same even pressure across the panels... It's really that simple, but sometimes, simple things are really complicated.. :)

The trashed paintwork is now really shiny, you can see your reflection in it, its smooth, and totally looks great ! The production shop Painter or his Helper banged it out along with the other 20+ vehicles that week, and all is well..

Lucky for me, all my mentors, over all the years I worked in those shops, were Detailing Fanatics too - so they insisted that every vehicle's paintwork had to be perfectly CLEAR when viewed from any angle outside in bright sunlight, or under a lot of different bright lights inside... So , no swirls, holograms, etc...

They all knew, really knew, how to use the tool to make this happen..

DA's were not even thought of even if they were already invented as the Sanders that they also were..

I am glad that so many new technologies have emerged from all this, especially in the Random Orbital side and that people are actually working at designing tools that will do much more than the old trusty Random Orbital Sander/Polisher that started being used on car paint..

It will always be a great alternative to those that are not ever going to be wanting to carry around a 10lb tool with one hand all day and thats great !

I have always thought it kind of ironic that after all the different tools that have come out over the past 10 years, that none of the Rotary Power people have ever come out and re-invented or changed the design that goes back to the days of nitro-cellulose lacquer.. Its pretty much the same direct drive design..

Even the big Flex company who makes machines that polish Stone, decided to get into the fray for a bit with their Flex 3401-VRG, and notice that while it does random orbit, it is still a forced rotation - ah - perhaps that is the key - forced rotation??? :) :) :)

When I lived in the Seattle area for about 12 years, I ran into thousands of very nice Boats and some of the best Boat Detailers ever...

They all used nothing but Rotary Power and could kill even the best Rotaries because of the sheer number of hours they ran them under the heavy loads of dirty, neglected gelcoat..

They all laughed out loud when I mentioned any brand of Random Orbital, and routinely asked me if I wanted any of the numbers of these machines they were given by people to try out... I never took them up on their offers.. :)

And all of them turned out beautiful, swirl and hologram free work !!! I have seen probably thousands of swirled up cars going down the road all my life, and I cannot ever remember seeing 1 nice beautiful Cobalt, etc., black or any color boat ever looking badly..

So, one must really have a reason, justification, etc., to want to take the industry standard tool - all 10lbs of it, and work at learning how to understand the physics of it for starters, and then the rest of the learning curve to get how to apply this and all the new, way better products to their project... Its as simple as that...

There will always be plenty of room for Rotary Power and Random Orbital, etc. machines to share the workload !
Dan F
 
Just curious... and this is me asking cause I don't really know. Would you buff off sealant with a rotary? One of the biggest things I love using my PC for is to buff off sealant after it has dried with a microfiber bonnet. Makes the process so much faster and a lot easier than doing it by hand.
 
I would say from experience when I was young using a rotary that I prefer using a DA now. I think the reason they are so popular is that is is mostly amateurs that are using them. When I was in high school 30+ years ago we had an auto body class and I signed up for the semester. In order to pass the class we have to take a square panel of sheet metal, do weld repair, heat shrinking, priming, painting and finishing it. Well I learned real fast what not to do with a rotary. I believe I ended up with a C in the class because I burnt the paint with the rotary. I did learn how to use it correctly. I used one on my last car but it brought back bad memories even though I finished out the car decent. When I got my current ride DA and random orbitals were available and popular and yes you still have to be careful correcting but they are a lot more user friendly for an amateur than a rotary is. I wouldn't mind owning a rotary buy I don't want to spend the money and I didn't think I need two different machines laying around when one will suffice.


If you feel the need to try a DA than do it. But if you are more than content using a rotary I would not bother spending the money just to try a DA.
 
IMO I find a rotary necessary:
- for small areas (iwth the right attachments) that a traditional DA couldn't get access to.
- wool for rapid paint reduction
- special final polish stage (sometimes for problematic paints)

Your skill and background make a huge factor in grabbing a rotary. Rupes + 5K Wetsanded panel with the right setup will give you ridiculous efficiency as well as less "work" on the body.

Either machine you absolutely have to understand what's occuring on the paint. Yup I'm a DA guy, thank you KBM & 105 method.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to have to try a DA. But, I would still recommend some of you guys who have a fear of rotarys to try one.

I'm telling you guys, I've been in the car business all my life and I didn't have the right information about anything other than wool and 3M/cheap Ardex compound and polish until I found these forums some years ago. (I was registered here in 2008, just don't remember my old account info nor do I use the same email). When you see a poorly done rotary job, I will bet you dollars to dimes, that the guys technique may not have been that bad, he's just probably using a poor excuse for a compound on a wool pad and buffing at 2k rpm.

Using a rotary, m101 and a foam cut pad at about 1000-1200rpm, you're not going to burn things unless you are careless and you will finish near swirl free. Follow with a good polish and polish pad and it's cake.
 
For 10+yrs I used a pneumatic rotory w/ 3m products in a body shop. Sand using a da palm sander to get some of the debris out of the paint sometimes & then buff out the panel & adjasent panels & then glaze it. Yea, thats the typical shop production way. Since Ford pulled the franshise, where I used to work & closed down the shop, I'd like to get a da buffer, like a Rupes duetto or a 15. I'd say that someone that has never picked up any machine, can get pretty good w/ it & not mess up their vechicle.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to have to try a DA. But, I would still recommend some of you guys who have a fear of rotarys to try one.

I'm telling you guys, I've been in the car business all my life and I didn't have the right information about anything other than wool and 3M/cheap Ardex compound and polish until I found these forums some years ago. (I was registered here in 2008, just don't remember my old account info nor do I use the same email). When you see a poorly done rotary job, I will bet you dollars to dimes, that the guys technique may not have been that bad, he's just probably using a poor excuse for a compound on a wool pad and buffing at 2k rpm.

Using a rotary, m101 and a foam cut pad at about 1000-1200rpm, you're not going to burn things unless you are careless and you will finish near swirl free. Follow with a good polish and polish pad and it's cake.
If you are used to a high speed buffer and comfortable with it and happy with the results I see no need for you to buy a DA. You will probably hate how it slows down your work and be frustrated with it .IMO .
Maybe you can borrow one and see if you like it first at least before you spend your money .
 
If you are used to a high speed buffer and comfortable with it and happy with the results I see no need for you to buy a DA. You will probably hate how it slows down your work and be frustrated with it .IMO .
Maybe you can borrow one and see if you like it first at least before you spend your money .

:exactly:

Save your $ for some exotic wax instead
 
Rotary typically = more steps, though less time per step, to get the same hologram free finish as a DA. Put a twisted wool pad on a rotary and some "rocks in a bottle compound" and sure you'll cut defects very quickly...but you'll also leave a nasty looking finish to boot.

With today's pads, polishes, and large throw tools like the Rupes 21, people are getting very fast initial correction. This initial correction finishes downs so well that one often only needs a quick follow up with a mild finishing polish to produce a perfect finish. All this with the piece of mind, ease of use, and less risk of damaging this finish, it should be obvious why DA's have become so popular. Now I do still have 3 rotaries, and they will ALWAYS have their place, but they simply don't get used much now days.

Finishing properly with a rotary still takes a good amount of time and those who say otherwise (skipping the intermediate/refining steps) will have cars coming back to haunt them, and can assure you of that. :inspector:


For the record I learned on a rotary and have been using them for over 24yrs now.


Just my $.02

Rasky
 
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