Wholesale Detailing?

Sorry for jumping late into this thread and sorta skimming so far, but I have to comment on this:



"To start out he wanted the absolute basic on all vehicles and then will progress after the first month getting more things done on certain vehicles.



Basic: *$30 per. Car / $40 per. SUV/Large Vehicle *"



My gut reaction is to run away from this guy fast and let him find another sucker detailer. That is ridiculously low for the amount of work he's expecting. He's going to get you to do $30 per car and slowly start picking out things he wants done and expect the same price. "That looks good, but can you clean up this little spot on the paint?"
 
JPostal said:
$30 a car??? Even at a fast pace your looking at 2 hours per vehicle...hopefully you will be able to do some serious upselling with add-ons. I hope it all works out for you, but at $30 a car you are going to need to do ALOT of volume. Keep us updated on how it goes.
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at 30-50 cars that yields:



$1,050 - $1,750 gross income



not all that bad . . . .



todd@bsaw said:
Sorry for jumping late into this thread and sorta skimming so far, but I have to comment on this:



"To start out he wanted the absolute basic on all vehicles and then will progress after the first month getting more things done on certain vehicles.



Basic: *$30 per. Car / $40 per. SUV/Large Vehicle *"



My gut reaction is to run away from this guy fast and let him find another sucker detailer. That is ridiculously low for the amount of work he's expecting. He's going to get you to do $30 per car and slowly start picking out things he wants done and expect the same price. "That looks good, but can you clean up this little spot on the paint?"
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I think yes it might be a little low but we all have to start some place and securing some form of work is great especially to know that you will for sure have between $1,050 - $1,750 worth of work per month.



After things get figured out i'm sure pricing will get adjusted accordingly. To make things a little more worth it buy products in bulk and just use the bulk products on these vehicles and use your good products for personal client vehicles.



i would cut some stuff out if possible. Doing a shampoo of the interior might be a little over board as far as the price goes. It almost sounds like a full detail.



Once you get a system down for yourself you should be able to hammer those cars out in a hour or less. G'luck and keep us posted. I'm looking to try and figure some stuff out to get some steady work such as what you have going on.
 
ORRRRRR



he can line up all that work and then eventually sub-contract it out to someone else (employee, 1099) and just collect money from there on out!
 
I agree the same way. But $30-$40 is actually not bad. It only takes me about an hour to and hour and 15 minutes per vehicle. Over head cost is pretty low. Only cost gas to the place, car wash, APC and Hyper Dressing. But also like you said this guy understands detailing and does not try to get more out of me for free. So far already he has had me do 3 sets of headlights and needs a vehicle to have 3 panels wet sanded.



But like someone already stated I would prefer to be making more, but hey this can be a guarenteed $1k-2k worth of business per month. On top of my regular customers at the Performance Shop I contract for and other customers I may have.
 
toyotaguy said:
ORRRRRR



he can line up all that work and then eventually sub-contract it out to someone else (employee, 1099) and just collect money from there on out!
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If you do the math it does not work to hire it out at $30 a car...an employee is going to cost more than he is bringing in...at least in my area. Even at minimum wage of $9 an hour (2 hours a car), plus supplies/materials/equipment maintenance, liability insurance, workers compensation insurance (if this applicable in your area), taxes and all the other little expenses, you might break even. Hopefully your area is different and it can work for you because that is the best way to make more money...other peoples time.



For the record I'm not trying to say that it is not going to work, and I will be the first person to say that it is great to have a consistent cash flow each and every month. All I want to point out is that in volume work you must watch each and every expense to make sure you are not working for nothing.



Best of luck to you. I would love to know how it goes for you as he starts sending you more work. Wholesale work can be great money if you do it right.
 
JPostal said:
If you do the math it does not work to hire it out at $30 a car...an employee is going to cost more than he is bringing in...at least in my area. Even at minimum wage of $9 an hour (2 hours a car), plus supplies/materials/equipment maintenance, liability insurance, workers compensation insurance (if this applicable in your area), taxes and all the other little expenses, you might break even. Hopefully your area is different and it can work for you because that is the best way to make more money...other peoples time.



For the record I'm not trying to say that it is not going to work, and I will be the first person to say that it is great to have a consistent cash flow each and every month. All I want to point out is that in volume work you must watch each and every expense to make sure you are not working for nothing.



Best of luck to you. I would love to know how it goes for you as he starts sending you more work. Wholesale work can be great money if you do it right.
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^^ Gets it. Wholesale work is only worth doing if you are making money. Too many detailers use fuzzy math and think they can make a buck doing this stuff cheap then scratch their heads later wondering why they never make a buck. If you can use the upsell to charge for a lot of add ons it could work but dealers are famous for making a lot of promises then completely doing a 180 once you get going. I used to get a lot of - "you can't charge me extra for the dirty ones because you'll make it up on the clean ones" when I first got started. Then the same guy would take all the clean ones and just have his lot guy wash and vacuum them and put them on the lot. Either way, good luck with it. If he can make money then good for him.
 
ShineShop said:
^^ Gets it. Wholesale work is only worth doing if you are making money. Too many detailers use fuzzy math and think they can make a buck doing this stuff cheap then scratch their heads later wondering why they never make a buck. If you can use the upsell to charge for a lot of add ons it could work but dealers are famous for making a lot of promises then completely doing a 180 once you get going. I used to get a lot of - "you can't charge me extra for the dirty ones because you'll make it up on the clean ones" when I first got started. Then the same guy would take all the clean ones and just have his lot guy wash and vacuum them and put them on the lot. Either way, good luck with it. If he can make money then good for him.
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One thing maybe I should have expressed first was that before I started my detailing business full time, i was a Inventory Supervisor at a dealership, so I know both sides to wholesale detailing. I know that work like this does have the potential to lose money if you do it to keep, but I know what to watch for to keep myself from losing money.



But its good to know you guys are looking out and giving me yalls two cents from the way yall type, as being past experiences.
 
vtec92civic said:
I think yes it might be a little low but we all have to start some place and securing some form of work is great especially to know that you will for sure have between $1,050 - $1,750 worth of work per month.
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I'll normally agree with the "we all have to start somewhere", but $30 per car for what is basically a regular recon job at a dealership is not "a little low" -- it is incredibly low.



I have seen this situation before in person where a dealer will find someone that will do the work they are asking for that price with the promise to "adjust pricing" when the higher-end cars start coming in. They will continue to work that sub-contractor for peanuts, slowly asking for a little more to be done on each vehicle (and sending the easy ones to their lot guy), and when it is far beyond the point of no return for gaining a profit and changes need to be made, they drop you and find someone else that will do it.



Again, best of luck to you and your mileage may vary, but I'd hate to see a fellow detailer get burned the same way I've seen happen to others. Losing money on an account is never acceptable, even with a promise of "more work" in the future. If it isn't even cost effective to hire someone at $9/hr to do the work, then you are losing money.
 
todd@bsaw said:
I'll normally agree with the "we all have to start somewhere", but $30 per car for what is basically a regular recon job at a dealership is not "a little low" -- it is incredibly low.



I have seen this situation before in person where a dealer will find someone that will do the work they are asking for that price with the promise to "adjust pricing" when the higher-end cars start coming in. They will continue to work that sub-contractor for peanuts, slowly asking for a little more to be done on each vehicle (and sending the easy ones to their lot guy), and when it is far beyond the point of no return for gaining a profit and changes need to be made, they drop you and find someone else that will do it.



Again, best of luck to you and your mileage may vary, but I'd hate to see a fellow detailer get burned the same way I've seen happen to others. Losing money on an account is never acceptable, even with a promise of "more work" in the future. If it isn't even cost effective to hire someone at $9/hr to do the work, then you are losing money.
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I agree. We have 2 shops in my city blowing out "details" for dealers at $100 & $110 a piece. Assuming pick up and delivery time of 40-60 minutes, plus 3-4 hours to do a decent job you are looking at 4-5 hours minimum. Assuming pay of $10.25 (minimum wage here) which equates to close to $14 an hour factoring in all associated wage costs you would have AT LEAST $56-$70 paid out before even considering rent/heat/hydro/taxes/insurance/product/advertising and hopefully a PROFIT on each car. They are making NOTHING on the cars they do and do a ****** job to boot. Funny part is the same dealer that pays them $100 a car pays me $150-$250 and sends me all the good work and the salespeople are demanding we specifically do their cars because of the quality. The service manager just abuses these guys and gets them to work for nothing because they will do it. I have said it before - big difference between being busy and being profitable.
 
Well I don't have experience as a professional detailer but common sense is screaming in my ear; $30 for what you want to deliver is way too low.



You know what you deliver is worth far more, furthermore you deserve fair value for doing a good job and working hard. Clearly he is looking to take advantage of your desire to work. 'The Rims of Wrath.'
 
Naturally said:
Well I don't have experience as a professional detailer but common sense is screaming in my ear; $30 for what you want to deliver is way too low.



You know what you deliver is worth far more, furthermore you deserve fair value for doing a good job and working hard. Clearly he is looking to take advantage of your desire to work. 'The Rims of Wrath.'
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I remember talking to a UCM back in the 90's and him laughing about all the detailers he would beat up on price and they would almost always take the work just to stay busy. As soon as the detailer figured out they weren't making any money he would have another guy lined up and switch. I wanted to punch the guy in the mouth
 
Around here, last I heard, auction details are $85. Which if you haven't seen that type of work, is usually barely acceptable.



$30 is a wash/vac price, not a recondition price.
 
you guys all made some excellent points. Hopefully it helps him out. I certainly wouldn't be doing stain removal/interior extraction for that price.



As stated $30 is like a wash, vacuum & tire shine type deal. Maybe a spray wax but nothing more then that.
 
We don't really know anything about the OP. Maybe he is 18 and lives at home with no bills and can get by on netting the equivalent of $12 an hour. Maybe he makes up for the low initial cost with add-ons on each car. Maybe he details for the love of detailing and not to make $60 an hour. Who knows what his story is...I know I could not survive on $30 details, but maybe he can. This could be a great opportunity for him if he can turn $30 details into $100+ with add-ons.



It sounds like he is a full time detailer so if he has the time and energy to do this sort of work I think he should at least give it a try. If it is not working out for him he can re-negotiate the prices or stop doing work for this dealer. Either way, he will learn a valuable lesson that can help him down the road.
 
JPostal said:
We don't really no anything about the OP. Maybe he is 18 and lives at home with no bills and can get by on netting the equivalent of $12 an hour. Maybe he makes up for the low initial cost with add-ons on each car. Maybe he details for the love of detailing and not to make $60 an hour. Who knows what his story is...I know I could not survive on $30 details, but maybe he can. This could be a great opportunity for him if he can turn $30 details into $100+ with add-ons.



It sounds like he is a full time detailer so if he has the time and energy to do this sort of work I think he should at least give it a try. If it is not working out for him he can re-negotiate the prices or stop doing work for this dealer. Either way, he will learn a valuable lesson that can help him down the road.
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I don't really see how the OP living situation is relevant. Ultimately your passion for detailing has nothing to do with the fact that detailing, like plumbing, framing, auto mechanics, masonry etc... are all businesses. A business is run on the expectation of making a profit - something I feel is lost on many that attempt to enter this business. An excellent book on the subject is The E-myth Revisted by Michael Gerber (Amazon.com: The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What…). It speaks directly to the issue of business owners needing to transition from the "technician" that actually just performs the work to the businessperson that actually runs the business. It's a good read.
 
ShineShop said:
I don't really see how the OP living situation is relevant. Ultimately your passion for detailing has nothing to do with the fact that detailing, like plumbing, framing, auto mechanics, masonry etc... are all businesses. A business is run on the expectation of making a profit - something I feel is lost on many that attempt to enter this business. An excellent book on the subject is The E-myth Revisted by Michael Gerber (Amazon.com: The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What…). It speaks directly to the issue of business owners needing to transition from the "technician" that actually just performs the work to the businessperson that actually runs the business. It's a good read.
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^Agreed. You and I both know that $30 is too low. All I am trying to say is he may be able to turn a profit and support himself on $30 a car. If he can in fact do all the work required in an hour he can in theory make aprox $20 an hour after expenses. Not great, but not horrible if his only other employment option is McDonalds at $9 an hour. I'm sure he would rather be making $60 an hour doing correction work, but right now he is taking what he can get to survive. It may end up being a bad business deal, but he needs to be able to make that decision himself after doing some work for the dealer.
 
I have made a decent business for some time doing only dealership recon jobs. There are ways to make money doing it and the money can be great. However, when I was doing it I had a permanent bay in the particular dealership and would have my key rack full of 10 cars per week I could work on at my leisure at $100 a pop.



All good points in this thread, but here is the end deal of it all:



It may end up being a bad business deal, but he needs to be able to make that decision himself after doing some work for the dealer.
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We are a community of detailers experienced in many different aspects of the industry with a wide knowledge of both the technique and the business. The reason I love Autopia and have stuck around for so long is the willingness of the community to help, warn, and educate others in the same field from using personal experience as a basis for opinions (often strong).



Sure, there are factors that we may not know, but nobody is trying to discourage anyone from making a buck. If the deal does end up being a bad business decision, I expect the OP will heed the advice from others in this thread and drop it before it burns a hole in his business.
 
todd@bsaw said:
I have made a decent business for some time doing only dealership recon jobs. There are ways to make money doing it and the money can be great. However, when I was doing it I had a permanent bay in the particular dealership and would have my key rack full of 10 cars per week I could work on at my leisure at $100 a pop.



All good points in this thread, but here is the end deal of it all:







We are a community of detailers experienced in many different aspects of the industry with a wide knowledge of both the technique and the business. The reason I love Autopia and have stuck around for so long is the willingness of the community to help, warn, and educate others in the same field from using personal experience as a basis for opinions (often strong).



Sure, there are factors that we may not know, but nobody is trying to discourage anyone from making a buck. If the deal does end up being a bad business decision, I expect the OP will heed the advice from others in this thread and drop it before it burns a hole in his business.
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You need to bring that mindset and all the great advice down to Chicago and we should get rich together. I don't mind doing all the work, just tell me where and how haha. Good advice and I completely agree.
 
Another question to be asked is, where is the detailing to be done? If it is inhouse, then it would probably be better to be an employee. At that price range you will make more money.



If you are expected to pick up and deliver and buy all equipment and products for a $30 detail, you will lose money.
 
The fact of all this to me is money. It all boils down to how you want to go about it. Many people on here discouraged high volume shop guys who just get them out. There the ones making a lot more money. DO you think the owner of your local tunnel wash is beating his head over a swirl or a scratch in a car? Let me tell you something he is not. He is laughing at true detailers because he is washing 100 to 200 cars a day at $20. do the math as opposed to slave laboring a buffer for X amount of dollars. Fact is you will make more money doing high volume work as opposed to Autopian Details. Its personal prefrence on what you want to do. Buisness is Buisness and not everyone is an Autopian. Since I recently opened my new shop I have found more business from quick details then anything. In the end does it matter if you do 6 headlamp repairs a day at $75 or a few interiors or a lot of washes. What matters is the end result. Is you pocket getting Fatter!
 
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