Where did I go wrong

[Chicagoareanew]

I finally had good enough weather to start polishing with my PC for the first time. I think I screwed just about everything up though. First of all, one of my orange pads exploded. It started to look like it was inflating or something when it was on the car (speed 6) and I freaked out and immediately took it off and boom! Part of it seperated from the rest of the pad and flew across my garage. Polish splattered everywhere, of course. Maybe I was pressing down too hard, but I've never heard of pads exploding before.

I'm pretty much done with the car, and I still haven't got the hang of it even after all of the videos I've seen and articles I've read. The car looks better overall, but now there are swirl marks all over. I didn't see any swirl marks before polishing, but the paint has much more clarity. So, I'm wondering if they were there all along and you just couldn't see it, or if I improved the car and made it worse all at the same time. Keep in mind, it's a 6 year old car that is used daily, which has never been taken care of, and for about one year, it was only parked outside. It would be strange if it didn't have swirl marks to begin with, right?

The paint on it is horrible. It's supposed to be dark green (it's a Toyota if it makes any difference) and there is a lot of purple when you look at it with a light. That will not improve, but I don't know if that's a defect, or irreversable damage from the sun.

I'm also really concerned with how the pad is supposed to be on the car. You can't press down too much, I understand that. But it's hard to know what is just right. Because when I first started, the pad was constantly vibrating, and I couldn't tell if it was leaving the car's surface and was jumping around, or if it was just how it was supposed to be. At first I was trying to allow the pad to spin as free as possible. If it turns out that it was jumping around, could that be the cause of swirl marks? And sometimes, it would seem like it would reverse direction, and I couldn't control it, and I would have to experiment with how hard to push down, and there seemed to be a million little problems.

And that's just with the polisher, I had some issues with the polish itself, too. I wasn't out in the sun, and it wasn't hot out, but both my Intensive Polish and Super Finishing Polish II were drying immediatly, and when I say immediatly I mean before I can even finish spreading it. I couldn't figure it out. But eventually, it stopped doing that.

So, since I'm left with only one orange pad, I need to get more stuff. I started with two orange, two white, a green and a black. I'm wondering if I should get something stronger, like some yellow or wool to get rid of the swirl marks (when I feel like it since I need a break from that car). Or, if I should get a stronger polish. Maybe a compound, I don't know. I'm in desperate need of advice and enlightenment here.



Oh, and I forgot to add that I also ended up with some pitting in various places. I didn't do anything that seems like it would cause that. I wish I could post some pictures, but I lost my camera and the one I am borrowing now is so bad it's almost useless.

 

[swan]

Wow I got a headache from reading all that. Next time try shortening it up and focus on each of your problem without all the rambling. I think its easier to help people that way.

What products were you using on that pad and what were you trying to accomplish? What kind of pads and what sizes?

Did you clay first? How bad is the paint surface?

There are so many other questions I have.

This is why it helps to be very precise so we can help.



Where you located? I may be able to give you some pointers if you are anywhere close to me.

 

[craigdt]

Where you located? I may be able to give you some pointers if you are anywhere close to me.

:har:



I shall henceforth reserve all advice for those who live within my zip code!



Anyways, that was a bit difficult and not very fun to read.



Howabout asking a few very specific questions.





Such as:

Am I using too much polish?

Am I using too little polish?



Did I break the polish down correctly?

Am I using pads that are in decent shape?



Do I have the pad properly centered?

Do I understand how a PC works?



Pardon my being a smart alec. Those are some issues that I think you may have run into.



But get back to us and let us know.

 

[Vintage]

What suburb are you in?



Couple reasons I ask: 1.) I have a bunch of orange, yellow, and white pads if needed. I'm running low on blue and red. All 6 inch. 2.) I just polished one of my cars yesterday and the weather was just fine . . . how hot was it by you? I used OP (long work time), PO106FF, and DWG. Will top it with Vintage today.



Isn't the orange a light cutting pad? Why are you using that and saying the car is almost done? Are you finishing with that pad? Atleast finish with the white.



Did you prime your pad with a quick detailer? I find that it helps a lot.



Don't fret too much. It's your first time, but in reality, a PC is very easy to learn to use.

 

[Accumulator]

Eh...I'll take a stab at this. Yeah, posting this in a more readable format woulda made things a bit easier but I gather Chicagoareanew is a bit stressed out at present.



[Insert lecture on mindset here]



Ok..pardon any typos as I'm trying to just get this done.

... one of my orange pads exploded. It started to look like it was inflating or something when it was on the car (speed 6) and I freaked out and immediately took it off and boom!

The "inflating" bit isn't any big deal. As you found out, lifting the fast-spinning pad off the paint *is* a big deal.

Part of it seperated from the rest of the pad and flew across my garage. Polish splattered everywhere, of course. Maybe I was pressing down too hard, but I've never heard of pads exploding before.

UHm., well...what else would happen when you suddenly removed all resistance? I woulda been more surprised if it *didn't* suffer a catastrophic failure.

I'm pretty much done with the car, and I still haven't got the hang of it even after all of the videos I've seen and articles I've read..

It takes a while for most people to develop their skills at this stuff. The ad-copy makes it sound like the machine will magically do all the work but it doesn't really work that way.



It sounds like things didn't go all that well, so I'm a bit about why you did the whole car. But anyhow...

The car looks better overall, but now there are swirl marks all over. I didn't see any swirl marks before polishing, but the paint has much more clarity. So, I'm wondering if they were there all along and you just couldn't see it, or if I improved the car and made it worse all at the same time.

It's not unusual for some marring to be more obvious once you shine things up a bit. You almost certainly needed to be *much* more aggressive during the major correction part of the job.



I hope you really *do* think it looks better overall. Note that nobody cares about the residual swirls except for you and I bet the average person would think it looks swell.

Keep in mind, it's a 6 year old car that is used daily, which has never been taken care of, and for about one year, it was only parked outside. It would be strange if it didn't have swirl marks to begin with, right?

Right. And you should have realistic expectations about how good it can get. Don't let the Click & Brag pics here mess with your head, there's only so much you're gonna be able to do.

The paint on it is horrible. It's supposed to be dark green (it's a Toyota if it makes any difference) and there is a lot of purple when you look at it with a light. That will not improve, but I don't know if that's a defect, or irreversible damage from the sun.

No way to say for sure. Don't worry about it. If you want to make things better marring-wise OK, but at some point you have to realize there's only so much you can do towards improving a car in this condition.

I'm also really concerned with how the pad is supposed to be on the car. You can't press down too much, I understand that. But it's hard to know what is just right. Because when I first started, the pad was constantly vibrating, and I couldn't tell if it was leaving the car's surface and was jumping around, or if it was just how it was supposed to be.

You want to pad to spin a bit. The vibration of the PC often surprises people.



IMO you oughta use 4" pads for correction, you can press harder with those and they do more work even without excessive pressure.

At first I was trying to allow the pad to spin as free as possible. If it turns out that it was jumping around, could that be the cause of swirl marks

?



Not likely unless you failed to break your product down sufficiently. Thee PC shouldn't jump around much though, you gotta hold it firmly in place.

And sometimes, it would seem like it would reverse direction, and I couldn't control it, and I would have to experiment with how hard to push down, and there seemed to be a million little problems.

You just need to get better acquainted with the PC. Most of the "problems" aren't really worth thinking about. Controlling it should just be a matter of getting used to it...I dunno...it's sure a lot easier to control than a Flex IMO and even the Flex isn't any big deal. But I can say that because I've done this stuff a while and wrestling with a polisher isn't anything new for me now. I bet you'll get the hang of this part of it, but I gotta say that this is one reason why I like the Cyclo so much, it's just not the same wrestling match that the PC/etc. is.

And that's just with the polisher, I had some issues with the polish itself, too. I wasn't out in the sun, and it wasn't hot out, but both my Intensive Polish and Super Finishing Polish II were drying immediatly, and when I say immediatly I mean before I can even finish spreading it. I couldn't figure it out. But eventually, it stopped doing that.

Sounds like you failed to prime the pads properly (I do it ala Kevin Brown even with diminishing-abrasive products), and that you tried to do too large an area. Stick with 1' x 1' areas and don't overdo the spreading, do it just enough to distribute product over that small area. Or use a non-diminishing product instead.

So, since I'm left with only one orange pad, I need to get more stuff. I started with two orange, two white, a green and a black. I'm wondering if I should get something stronger, like some yellow or wool to get rid of the swirl marks (when I feel like it since I need a break from that car). Or, if I should get a stronger polish. Maybe a compound, I don't know. I'm in desperate need of advice and enlightenment here.

IMO SIP/orange isn't all that potent, at least on a large pad.



My advice: switch to 4" pads for correction. Switch to M105/M205 and *learn how to use those products* before you start; there's info here from Kevin Brown that gives you the info you need to get started.



If you need really serious correction (on a Toyota :think: I dunno..) use LC PFW pads instead of yellow foam.

Oh, and I forgot to add that I also ended up with some pitting in various places. I didn't do anything that seems like it would cause that..

Pitting is unrelated to your efforts, it's a problem with the beat-up paint that you'll just have to live with.



Hey, it's not like everybody figures this stuff out after just doing one (or one dozen) cars.



Pick *one* panel, maybe the trunk lid, and just work on that. Don't try to do the whole car until you know what's what. If you can/can't do one small area, well, that's the way it'll go on the whole car.

 

[Chicagoareanew]

Thanks for all of your help, guys. Sorry it wasn't very readable, but it also didn't seem practical to have several threads since many of the issues seemed related.

To answer some questions:



The pads were all 4 inches



I would start with orange with SIP and then do the finishing polish with white.

I would prime with water, but not QD or any other specific pad product



The car was clayed first - I used the Ultima Elastofoam last week so I wouldn't have to do a million things at once because I knew polishing for the first time would be very time consuming.



I was trying to restore clarity mainly, and get rid of some scratches. I was able to succeed with both, but I was just alarmed about how all sorts of swirl marks appeared when I was done.



I'll have to look up the Kevin Brown method. But I think I'll save buying the megs polish for later since the next car I will be doing will be my own, and I don't want to try and get used to a new polish on my own car.



And I am located in DuPage county, IL (hence the name chicagoareanew).



Thanks again for all of the advice everybody.

 

[swan]

Accum broke it down real well. I didn't have time to do what he did. I figured if you responded back with some specific problems and what was happening I could help you better. But he came in and covered quite a bit.



Why you have swirls after is what baffles me. Either something was in your pad, car wasn't thoroughly clean or maybe your towels are doing it. Or what you are using is not actually taking them out.



Like Accum said, start in a small area and find out what is gonna work and what won't. Then proceed with the whole car. No need to waste all that time polishing and get no or worse results.

 

[Chicagoareanew]

I know you're supposed to test out a small area first, and that's what I did. I didn't even notice the swirl marks until I was done, because by then it was dark out and I checked with hallogen lights. When I looked at the car under halogen lights before, there were no marks. But the paint was very oxidized before polishing it, so I'm wondering if the oxidation could have been masking pre-existing swirls.

In terms of what pads and products I used, I only have two abrasive polishes, and the orange, white, black, and green pads so even with testing, there weren't many choices.

 

[Accumulator]

..

The pads were all 4 inches



I would start with orange with SIP and then do the finishing polish with white.

I would prime with water, but not QD or any other specific pad product..

I wouldn't prime with water.

I didn't even notice the swirl marks until I was done, because by then it was dark out and I checked with hallogen lights. When I looked at the car under halogen lights before, there were no marks. But the paint was very oxidized before polishing it, so I'm wondering if the oxidation could have been masking pre-existing swirls.

I bet that *is* what happened; you just see different issues now that you've cleared up the oxidation.

 

[swan]

I know you're supposed to test out a small area first, and that's what I did. I didn't even notice the swirl marks until I was done, because by then it was dark out and I checked with hallogen lights. When I looked at the car under halogen lights before, there were no marks. But the paint was very oxidized before polishing it, so I'm wondering if the oxidation could have been masking pre-existing swirls.

In terms of what pads and products I used, I only have two abrasive polishes, and the orange, white, black, and green pads so even with testing, there weren't many choices.

This is why you need to be precise with your descriptions and questions.

You never said you had oxidation or were priming with water in your OP.

Thats why I asked the questions I did. Sorry if I sounded like an ***. Just trying to help you post your question better and get your car where you want it.

I find with heavily oxidized cars, I tend to use 3 steps at least. I will go with 3M oxidation remover, or M105, followed with M205. Then a lsp. Sometimes you have to use a step twice to get rid of the oxidation if its bad enough.



What were your processes from beginning to end?

Example

Paint had oxidation, swirls, rids...

Process was...

wash

clay

which menzerna on what pad

another menzerna on different pad?

last step product was ??



This will help you in the future.

 

[Chicagoareanew]

I'll use that format next time. I figured that IP on orange would be pretty strong, but I guess I should have used a compound or something. Following it with finishing polish II with white probably wasn't a terrible choice, though.

 

[Accumulator]

.. I figured that IP on orange would be pretty strong, but I guess I should have used a compound or something. Following it with finishing polish II with white probably wasn't a terrible choice, though.

Two things come to mind:



-IP/orange is in that "maybe it's aggressive, maybe it's not" category; it's not *really* aggressive but it isn't the mildest combo either. But I sure wouldn't expect it to get things perfect after just one or two passes unless the paint is *very* soft. Even aggressive stuff sometimes needs to be used over and over and over before you make any headway.



-FPII is *so* mild that no matter what pad you use it on, it might be a bit too mild for use after *anything* on an orange pad; you might benefit from an intermediate step. But note all those "might"s that I included

 

[Chicagoareanew]

Two things come to mind:







-FPII is *so* mild that no matter what pad you use it on, it might be a bit too mild for use after *anything* on an orange pad; you might benefit from an intermediate step. But note all those "might"s that I included

I did see more gloss and a mirror like finish after following the IP with FPII so it did make a noticeable difference, even though it's mild. I'm guessing that I should just get a foam/wool combo pad (forgot the exact name) by LC so I don't need a whole different compound to get more aggressive.

 

[craigdt]

PFW? You should have good luck with that.