Whats a better wax Zymol Carbon or HD Poxy
- Thread starter ppastos
- Start date
imported_WCD
New member
Opti-Seal goes on every car- this started last summer. Opti-Coat does for a much higher price.
Rob
Rob
imported_Bence
New member
ppastos, the recommendations are generally very good here - the problem is that you can compose 1000s of combos and they will be excellent.
However...
When you look at Scott's pics, be mindful that this kind of depth, wetness, gloss, definition is not something you can achieve with a simple wash/clay/wax routine. This look comes from a painstaking preparation, from a multi step process, which includes multiple compounding/polishing/finishing/finessing hits, because these will give 90-95% of the overall look. The last step products will amplify the appearance, yes, but they are unable to perform their best on an unprepped 10 year old finish. (Don't worry, Ferrari paints generally suck...)
Additionally, when you have a surface with little tension (even unprotected), water will bead up, no matter what. The Collinites are beautiful waxes which produce a very bright, shiny finish AND great durability (4-6 months). BUT! They bead like mad, forming wonderful water pearls on the surface. This means water spotting in the rain when the car parks AND insane water drying ability. Water drops from the rain are hugely different from a steady stream from a hose.
And finally, synthetic paint protectants (aka sealants) need bare paint or synthetic base, because they bond/crosslink to the substrate. Wax however, just "sitting over" the paint. Therefore, when you put a sealant on the top of a wax, it can't bond properly, and the durability will be poor. Good sealants can last 4-6 months, but when the conditions are favorable (covered storage, AC, no rain, etc.) they can stretch to a year mark. Covalent silane coatings are the longest lasting things though.
When a wax has synthetic ingredients, and natural waxes, it's a blend; usually combining the best of both worlds. They can contain gloss enhancers, bonding enhancers, etc. These ingredients go hand in hand with the natural waxes and coexist in harmony.
My recommendation would be OOS as well, because it produces a glassy, but deep look, its application is unrivaled and it sheets water well. It doesn't have a pronounced beading such as the Colly's.
However...
When you look at Scott's pics, be mindful that this kind of depth, wetness, gloss, definition is not something you can achieve with a simple wash/clay/wax routine. This look comes from a painstaking preparation, from a multi step process, which includes multiple compounding/polishing/finishing/finessing hits, because these will give 90-95% of the overall look. The last step products will amplify the appearance, yes, but they are unable to perform their best on an unprepped 10 year old finish. (Don't worry, Ferrari paints generally suck...)
Additionally, when you have a surface with little tension (even unprotected), water will bead up, no matter what. The Collinites are beautiful waxes which produce a very bright, shiny finish AND great durability (4-6 months). BUT! They bead like mad, forming wonderful water pearls on the surface. This means water spotting in the rain when the car parks AND insane water drying ability. Water drops from the rain are hugely different from a steady stream from a hose.
And finally, synthetic paint protectants (aka sealants) need bare paint or synthetic base, because they bond/crosslink to the substrate. Wax however, just "sitting over" the paint. Therefore, when you put a sealant on the top of a wax, it can't bond properly, and the durability will be poor. Good sealants can last 4-6 months, but when the conditions are favorable (covered storage, AC, no rain, etc.) they can stretch to a year mark. Covalent silane coatings are the longest lasting things though.
When a wax has synthetic ingredients, and natural waxes, it's a blend; usually combining the best of both worlds. They can contain gloss enhancers, bonding enhancers, etc. These ingredients go hand in hand with the natural waxes and coexist in harmony.
My recommendation would be OOS as well, because it produces a glassy, but deep look, its application is unrivaled and it sheets water well. It doesn't have a pronounced beading such as the Colly's.
imported_fishbonezken
New member
ppastos said:
Chances are, your paint won't look any better with either Carbon or Poxy. If you prepped your paint well enough, any other paint protectants you use will have marginal differences in looks.
So.. spend more time on the prep! i.e., polishing, to remove ingrained dirt and defects such as swirls, scratches, watermark/bird bomb etchings, holograms, buffer marks, etc.
edit: oops! Bence beat me to it
ppastos said:
Trust me on this, they lied. There isn't a sealant or clear coat even today that can last 10 years without any degradation.
Like Bence said, you have to properly polish the paint. 90% of your depth and shine come from that step. You can spend $1000 on a wax and apply it, and I can go right behind you with $20 worth of polish and $20 wax and blow away how the $1000 wax looks.
Also, don't worry about using one product as a base and one as a topper. Keep it simple. Find a wax or sealant you like and use it regularly. There are no short cuts to having a great finish.
Got it plus it makes sense that the prep work (ie: swirl removal...) will make the vehicle look better. Same applies to applying paint so it makes plenty sense.
My new plan is to use Klasse AIO and Collinite 472S on top of the wash, clay, polish. But the last 3 are the most important ones.
Thanks you for this great site and everyone for the help.
My new plan is to use Klasse AIO and Collinite 472S on top of the wash, clay, polish. But the last 3 are the most important ones.
Thanks you for this great site and everyone for the help.
Barry Theal
New member
Bence said:
Yea what this guy said! :xyxthumbs
Could you be more specific on how to:
"his look comes from a painstaking preparation, from a multi step process, which includes multiple compounding/polishing/finishing/finessing hits"
Like:
1. Wash.
2. Clay.
3. Vanilla moose (polish like).
4. Sealant (Meguiar?).
5. PS21 Wax
btw. That pic is amazing.
"his look comes from a painstaking preparation, from a multi step process, which includes multiple compounding/polishing/finishing/finessing hits"
Like:
1. Wash.
2. Clay.
3. Vanilla moose (polish like).
4. Sealant (Meguiar?).
5. PS21 Wax
btw. That pic is amazing.
imported_Bence
New member
Hi Boaz, welcome to the forum!
Well, multiple steps are (not all necessary):
- Wash
- Decontamination (removal of industrial fallout, ferrous contamination, making the paint squeaky clean)
- Clay
- Compounding with a coarser, high performance abrasive to remove major paint defects (fine tuning according to the exact needs; choose compounding and/or polishing pads accordingly - from aggressive twisted wool to fine polishing pad)
- Polishing with a middle strength, high performance polish to further refine the surface (from coarser, more aggressive foam pads to finishing pads)
- Finishing/finessing with the finest available abrasives to achieve the highest possible gloss (finishing and finessing pads; preferably functionally nonabrasive)
- IPA wipedowns between compounding/polishind steps to remove polishing oils and to reveal the true condition of the paint
- Paint cleaner as necessary; as a base for carnaubas - sealants just need bare paint to bond to
- LSP of your choice; from hard pastes to sprayable liquids or WOWA sealants, covalent silane coatings
- QD
The entire arsenal can be necessary even for a 1 yr old vehicle if it's neglected. Even brand new cars can spend considerable time on the lots, requiring full decon/correction, because of fallout, hack washes, and dealer prep. In these cases, the clear is already damaged and needs correction. Clearcoat is just transparent paint, not a wonderthingy.
OOS = Optimum Opti-Seal
Well, multiple steps are (not all necessary):
- Wash
- Decontamination (removal of industrial fallout, ferrous contamination, making the paint squeaky clean)
- Clay
- Compounding with a coarser, high performance abrasive to remove major paint defects (fine tuning according to the exact needs; choose compounding and/or polishing pads accordingly - from aggressive twisted wool to fine polishing pad)
- Polishing with a middle strength, high performance polish to further refine the surface (from coarser, more aggressive foam pads to finishing pads)
- Finishing/finessing with the finest available abrasives to achieve the highest possible gloss (finishing and finessing pads; preferably functionally nonabrasive)
- IPA wipedowns between compounding/polishind steps to remove polishing oils and to reveal the true condition of the paint
- Paint cleaner as necessary; as a base for carnaubas - sealants just need bare paint to bond to
- LSP of your choice; from hard pastes to sprayable liquids or WOWA sealants, covalent silane coatings
- QD
The entire arsenal can be necessary even for a 1 yr old vehicle if it's neglected. Even brand new cars can spend considerable time on the lots, requiring full decon/correction, because of fallout, hack washes, and dealer prep. In these cases, the clear is already damaged and needs correction. Clearcoat is just transparent paint, not a wonderthingy.
OOS = Optimum Opti-Seal
DetailnByDustn
New member
tdekany said:
Thats what she said :lol
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
I've have and use both Carbon & Poxy and think each one has their own unique characteristics. Poxy blows away Carbon from a durability standpoint, but I just love the look and buttery feel of Carbon on interior trim and door jambs. Sweats like crazy when there's any sign of humidty too.
Thomas Dekany
New member
To the OP - I haven't used ANY LSP that makes as big of a difference as POXY (including the high $$$ swiss wax).
No matter what color I put it on it improves the look big time.
No matter what color I put it on it improves the look big time.
imported_Bence
New member
SilverJag said:
Because it did, and still does.
SilverJag said:
I absolutely understand this.
Bence said:
Thank you.
My car is almost 2 years old red mini cooper.
It is well preserved including WAX once in few months (now once per month),
except I have those swirl scratches all over that were done probably by car wash (although it was hand wash!), probably in the clear coat(?) - I tried to avoid such as much as I could but I guess I didn't know enough to avoid these!
I will post a new thread asking for you guys help, is this the right forum for this or the detailing forum?
imported_Bence
New member
Boaz, what you can learn here is the proper upkeep withut instilling swirls marks. The ones in the clearcoat are (mostly) repairable with polishing but if they go deeper... well.. that's another story. 
Read through posts like Accumulator's extreme wash technique which gives a good imaginative base what's happening on the surface. Unfortunately dust & dirt is generally underestimated, but grit particles can go through and destroy the entire paint film matrix (90-130 microns). An approx. 20-25 nanometer thick wax layer can't do much against these, so we have to do preventive measures to avoid damage.
The clinical cleanliness of all washing media is one of the most important things. A gentle approach is essential, and it will ensure that you don't have to worry about surface damage. As these methods become more habitual, everything is gonna be easy and self-explainatory.
Read through posts like Accumulator's extreme wash technique which gives a good imaginative base what's happening on the surface. Unfortunately dust & dirt is generally underestimated, but grit particles can go through and destroy the entire paint film matrix (90-130 microns). An approx. 20-25 nanometer thick wax layer can't do much against these, so we have to do preventive measures to avoid damage.
The clinical cleanliness of all washing media is one of the most important things. A gentle approach is essential, and it will ensure that you don't have to worry about surface damage. As these methods become more habitual, everything is gonna be easy and self-explainatory.
Currently I have my car washed just by hand with water in high pressure and then is wiped out with a synthetic CHAMOIS (and Zymol micro-wipe).
I read Accumulator's extreme wash, but he states that he doesn't use them on all cars as it takes a long time (are there other faster techniques, ones that the car was hand washing can use?).
After each wash I do Zymol Carbon Wax by myself. I was wondering whether the Zymol Wax applicator can make swirl marks? I currently don't exactly know how the swirl marks were made.
I will try to get picture of the swirl marks to have your advice how to remove them.
I read Accumulator's extreme wash, but he states that he doesn't use them on all cars as it takes a long time (are there other faster techniques, ones that the car was hand washing can use?).
After each wash I do Zymol Carbon Wax by myself. I was wondering whether the Zymol Wax applicator can make swirl marks? I currently don't exactly know how the swirl marks were made.
I will try to get picture of the swirl marks to have your advice how to remove them.