What would you do if you damaged........

David Fermani

David Fermani

Forza Auto Salon
What would you do?


 


Somewhat good friend has been asking you to detail his car. He and you both know that your typical charges are more than he is willing to pay, yet because he's your friend you decide to give him a great deal and charge him your bare minimum buddy price. You don't even want to really detail his cars, but you feel compelled to help him because he sends you lots of referrals and has been a good friend for many years. You detail his car and everything turns out excellent with the detail. There's several issues such as overspray, decades of oxidation and marring that make you go above and beyond to make things look their best so he'll be extra happy. 


 


The car happens to be a convertible (from the 60's) and when you go to put the top up part of it bangs the deck lid of the car and puts 2 large chips on both sides. Turns out the same thing happened to the owner (unknown to you) and he just got the car out of the body shop where they repaired/painted the deck lid in the same areas. It turns out that this is a flaw with the car's top and you had never been told about it. You end up touching up the chips and let your friend know about it when he comes to pic up his car from you and apologize for the damage. Your friend is still pretty upset.  


 


Do you:


**Offer to pay for all or some of the repair knowing it will cost more then what you charged him to detail it?


**Claim that because you charged him so little and didn't know this could of happened that the damage is on him?


**Other - (explain)


 


 


 


 
 
Hmm...if it was purely a mechanical defect with the car that the person neglected to tell you about and there was nothing you couldve done to avoid it happening I'm not sure I'd offer up anything more than a sincere apology
 
I'd really question how good a "friend" he was. If he knew about the issue, then he should have told you to start with. I just did a Roush Mustang for a guy and he spent 10 minutes showing me areas that were just decals (and satin finish ones at that) so I wouldn't touch them, bet your sweet asre I stayed clear of them!
 
Gee, if the "friend" (scare-quotes sorta intentional..) is all ticked off and wanting compensation this would be a tough situation.


 


Any remote chance that a *very* aware person could have foreseen/avoided the issue without having been told about it?  Is it something that *could* have been avoided without any heads-up drom him?  To me, that's the deciding factor, though I *could* understand the argument that not matter what, you should've asked about any "weird stuff" that bears mentioning (just as reasonable as the "he should've warned me!" IMO).


 


How I'd play it: "Man, I feel awful about this, and there's no question that I caused the damage.  But OTOH, you're talling me that it's the same thing that happened to you, and even though you knew about it, you never mentioned it; I just don't see how I could've been prepared to take the required precautions.  Ya know, this is a big part of why I've been putting you off all these years; when a detailer does a detail for a friend as a favor, it gets very close to doing business with friends, and that's usually a bad idea all-around.  Now how are we gonna settle this so you're OK with it?  What do you want me to do?"


 


Then just go with what he says.  Even if it's paintwork that costs you money ("no good deed goes unpunished" and all that...).  Chalk it up to a learning experience.  And give some thought to the status of this "friendship".
 
David Fermani said:
 


 You don't even want to really detail his cars, but you feel compelled to help him because he sends you lots of referrals and has been a good friend for many years.


 


 


 


 
Click to expand...


 


 


While I agree with what the others have shared, I think you've got to keep ^^^^ this front of mind. 


 


Has this person been an outstanding source of new biz for you?  If so, I think you've to offer to do whatever it takes to make it right in his eyes, David.  Yeah, he should have told you it could be an issue, but he didn't or he forgot.  It would be a shame for you to end up on the losing end of this.  Are we talking about a repair that could reach into the $x,000's ?
 
I think you suck it up and take care of the problem because:


   1.  "...he sends you lots of referrals" and


   2.  "...has been a good friend for many years," and


   3.  It's the right thing to do and you'll feel good about yourself, trite as that sounds, knowing you didn't come up with a bunch of (probably valid) excuses not to deal with it.


   


   Put it behind you.  Otherwise the anger/bad feelings will drag on forever.
 
[quote name="Accumulator" post="1437637" timestamp="1401465933"]Gee, if the "friend" (scare-quotes sorta intentional..) is all ticked off and wanting compensation this would be a tough situation.

Any remote chance that a *very* aware person could have foreseen/avoided the issue without having been told about it? Is it something that *could* have been avoided without any heads-up drom him? To me, that's the deciding factor, though I *could* understand the argument that not matter what, you should've asked about any "weird stuff" that bears mentioning (just as reasonable as the "he should've warned me!" IMO).

How I'd play it: "Man, I feel awful about this, and there's no question that I caused the damage. But OTOH, you're talling me that it's the same thing that happened to you, and even though you knew about it, you never mentioned it; I just don't see how I could've been prepared to take the required precautions. Ya know, this is a big part of why I've been putting you off all these years; when a detailer does a detail for a friend as a favor, it gets very close to doing business with friends, and that's usually a bad idea all-around. Now how are we gonna settle this so you're OK with it? What do you want me to do?"

Then just go with what he says. Even if it's paintwork that costs you money ("no good deed goes unpunished" and all that...). Chalk it up to a learning experience. And give some thought to the status of this "friendship".[/quote]



I agree with a lot of this. Best bet might be to put the ball in his court and find out what he expects. I find it ridiculous for him to be mad when he failed to mention it, especially when it just got out of the body shop from him doing the exact same thing. How could you forget to mention that? Ultimately its his vehicle that caused the issue. If it was me and he expected me to pay for any repair work, I can guarantee it'd be the last time I touched any of his cars.
 
I would go with your 1st offer. Pay whatever it costs. If he never comes back to you so be it. If he keeps coming back charge him a little more each time to recoup your loss. That's what I would do.


 


If you are in the detailing business, this loss is a tax write-off.
 
I always :huh: a little about "tax write-offs" as you don't really recoup all that much of your money.  No, No...I am NOT picking on you jmsc, you just got me thinking out loud.  Pals of mine always talk about "it's just a business expense/tax write-off.." and I always think, OK...so the actual % you "save" is what?!?
 
I've always thought the same thing.... they make the same argument for car leasing vs. buying..... I've always estimated the "recoup" money to be what-ever the business is being taxed... so I am guessing anywhere between 15-35 percent? Of course, if your business is in the high-tax bracket and it gets you into a lower tax bracket, then you are saving a lot more money.


 


I am just speculating as I have 0 clue into business financials.
 
Rx79394- Yeah, that "car lease business expense" was one of the things I was thinking of.  I can see some genuine benefits to leasing, but I question whether saving money is ever really one of 'em.
 
Tough one since he should have told you that's an issue he knew about personally. I guess it depends on how good a friend he is and how much business he's been throwing your way. 
 
Thanks everyone for the great feedback. You really gave me quite a bit of excellent opinions. 


 


The biggest lesson I learned is to not give your friends discounts. They should be coming to you because you will do great work, not because you'll drop your pants to take care of them. I'm still not 100% certain what I'm going to do about this yet? I might either offer to pay part of the repair or work something else out that will allow both of us to come out pleased. We shall see.....
 
David Fermani said:
Thanks everyone for the great feedback. You really gave me quite a bit of excellent opinions. 


 


The biggest lesson I learned is to not give your friends discounts. They should be coming to you because you will do great work, not because you'll drop your pants to take care of them. I'm still not 100% certain what I'm going to do about this yet? I might either offer to pay part of the repair or work something else out that will allow both of us to come out pleased. We shall see.....
Click to expand...


 


Regardless of what you come up with to compensate for the situation, one thing I'd seriously consider/recommend is having him sign a settlement agreement to acknowledge that you've resolved the issue to both parties' satisfaction.


 


I do have to ask though, when he had the deck lid repaired, was the body shop also supposed to repair the underlying mechanical issue that caused the initial damage? If so, I would ultimately hold them liable for the repeat damage since it could have just as easily happened to the owner of the car (who, in the case that the repair was supposed to have been completed, would have a reasonable expectation that the problem would not recur -- hence his neglecting to warn you about it). You just happened to be the one unlucky enough to have it happen while the vehicle was in your care, custody, and control.
 
I'm curious,  What has to be done to prevent the problem from happening again when you know it is possible?  Does this happen every time or just randomly?  


 


My thought on this:  He had the deck lid repaired but failed to have the mechanical issue repaired to prevent it again.  Sounds like it was inevitable that it was going to occur to someone, possibly him, in the future.  


 


I often ask my customers if there are any quirks about the car before they leave it with me, particularly older cars.  Things like key position (an issue when key or ignition is worn), loose handles or switches, automatic windows that will go down but not back up, etc.  They often aren't thinking about it but once you ask the question they realize you are careful to not cause damage.  You can't find everything on an initial inspection.
 
If he was truly a friend he shouldn't expect you to pay for the damage. It was his fault for not telling you about it and the top should have been fixed before he even fixed the deck lid.


 


This is somewhat different, but I had a car where 3M fineline tape peeled up the paint on a respray. I explained to my client that this should NOT happen and to take it back to the body shop. I did not offer to help pay for it even though it was a good client of mine. In the end the paint manufacture flipped the bill to have it repaired because the paint failed to adhere properly even though it was shown to have been prepped properly.


 


I guess what I'm trying to say is that the top was faulty and there was no negligence on your part that caused the damage, so why should you feel inclined to help pay for it?


 


IMO an apology is all that should be required and maybe an offer to help dial the paint in after it gets back from the body shop, if he chooses to have it fixed again. (FWIW, I did re-polish the rest of the car when it came back from the body shop at no additional charge).


 


Rasky
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">


 



If he was truly a friend....
</blockquote>


That's kinda the elephant in the living room IMO ;)
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
Regardless of what you come up with to compensate for the situation, one thing I'd seriously consider/recommend is having him sign a settlement agreement to acknowledge that you've resolved the issue to both parties' satisfaction.


 


I do have to ask though, when he had the deck lid repaired, was the body shop also supposed to repair the underlying mechanical issue that caused the initial damage? If so, I would ultimately hold them liable for the repeat damage since it could have just as easily happened to the owner of the car (who, in the case that the repair was supposed to have been completed, would have a reasonable expectation that the problem would not recur -- hence his neglecting to warn you about it). You just happened to be the one unlucky enough to have it happen while the vehicle was in your care, custody, and control.
Click to expand...


 


I think that if I had him sign a release that he would be insulted. I know I would. It basically illustrates to him that you don't trust him, which I still do. i don't think he meant anything by not informing me of this problem prior. I just think he thought it wouldn't get opened/closed. And if it did it wouldn't damage anything. 


 


You do have a point though......why didn't he correct the issue that caused all these problems in the 1st place? The top frame is as old as the car (60's) and the joints/swivels are worn out which is how this ended up causing the damage. The arms overextend and slap against the body. It really needs an overhaul, but again I think he was more interested in a cosmetic improvement rather than a mechanical one. 
 
On another note, he could be just expecting you to offer to pay or help pay and not take you up on the offer at all...
 
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