what the hell is causing this

Reading product descriptions and what they claim is one thing. What the product will actually do and or how long it will last in the real world is something entirely different. Thats why its very important to have experience with a given product before the advice comes.
 
TH0001 said:
No on the particular scale I used, I topped it with the white pad so that I could give a more accurate level. If we made the yellow pad a ten, then the blue/red would be a 1, the white would be a four, and the gray would be about a 1.75, if that is better?



We are talking about one of those pads you highlighted. Unfortunately you are reading product descriptions and advertisments and accepting them as truth which is no different then if I where to respond in any thread saying that Nu-Finish lasts a year.



I suggest doing more research before speaking factually or adding a question mark to your statement so you don't accidently mis lead people with your incorrect information.



When you state that the gray pad is for (waxes,sealants,glazes) I can only assume you don't have a lot of experience with a rotary?
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Who said anything about a rotary? The OP definitely said he's using a PC. I've never even heard of someone using the black pad for an application that requires any level of cut.



I'm sure the polish itself has cut, so even with a black pad, it might do something. But, in my experience, the black pad isn't firm enough to generate enough heat to do much of anything on a dual action polisher. Perhaps on a rotary, you could generate more heat and get better results. I'm not saying it's impossible



The black pad is for sealants, glazes, and waxes. That's just my opinion based on my own experience and experimentation. Since it doesn't agree with yours I must not have done enough research.



Clearly you know more about the product than the manufacturer and the distributor. So everyone should just listen to you
 
Less said:
Who said anything about a rotary? The OP definitely said he's using a PC. I've never even heard of someone using the black pad for an application that requires any level of cut.



I'm sure the polish itself has cut, so even with a black pad, it might do something. But, in my experience, the black pad isn't firm enough to generate enough heat to do much of anything on a dual action polisher. Perhaps on a rotary, you could generate more heat and get better results. I'm not saying it's impossible



The black pad is for sealants, glazes, and waxes. That's just my opinion based on my own experience and experimentation. Since it doesn't agree with yours I must not have done enough research.



Clearly you know more about the product than the manufacturer and the distributor. So everyone should just listen to you
Click to expand...



Well to help you learn lets understand that HEAT (as in tempature) has NOTHING to do with polishing abililty and is an unwanted side effect that has no measurable effect on polishing modern catalized paint.



I do not know more then the manufacturer, in fact the gents at Lake Country are among the most knowledgeable I have ever spoken to. In fact the information I have presented on this thread is from them.



I do feel that many on this forum know more then the vendors whose purpose is to sell the products.
 
this may be totally off topic, but what type of microfibers are you using to wipe up the polish. Do they pass the cd test? Its probably not a relevant question, but it never hurts to ask, but it seems as if most of you have figured out it was his process.
 
Good point on the MF towels, but the pic I'm looking at has swirls in a circular pattern.



It may be even (since he's using a PC) leftover bad rotary polishing from the dealer after all the filler glaze was removed. I have seen this before with very heavy glazed car finishes. Strip it off and you'll be staring a a whole lot of swirls!



PC's do take more time to break down polishes correctly, this is why it's best to try to match up polishes and pads to the mechanical device used (PC or rotary). Some combos will work in such a way that you fight the effects of a good removal of some swirls only to get spider webbing effects later.



Odd though we've found polishes that are directly for use on Ceramiclear finishes that work on regular clearcoats. It sometimes takes trial and error.



I'd have him work on using finer pads and working the polish till it breaks down fully depending on the type of clearcoat. Looks like just finish polishing is needed to bring out the gloss and remove the minor swirls, spiderwebbing.



My advise is to always use a test fender or hood from a junk yard until you learn the products and pads well enough to use it on your own car.



Regards,

Deanski
 
I think it is the polishes. Optimum polishes do the same thing for me. I posted a week ago that I will never touch that stuff again. OH, OC, OP, are jsut about worthless in my opinion. I thought I would finish down with OP on a Bentley and had to go back over it with SIP just to correct the crap it left. I am sorry if there are Optimum fans out there, but that stuff sucks!!! Stick with M105, and Menz products and you can't go wrong. I know they are expensive but atleast you don't have this problem to deal with.
 
fergnation said:
I think it is the polishes. Optimum polishes do the same thing for me. I posted a week ago that I will never touch that stuff again. OH, OC, OP, are jsut about worthless in my opinion. I thought I would finish down with OP on a Bentley and had to go back over it with SIP just to correct the crap it left. I am sorry if there are Optimum fans out there, but that stuff sucks!!! Stick with M105, and Menz products and you can't go wrong. I know they are expensive but atleast you don't have this problem to deal with.
Click to expand...



I have also had the same results with the Optimum products you mentioned. BUT, you need to work for in order to see results, especially using an orbital. I tried my Makita tonight using a white pad and OP, and was able to attain the results I've been looking for. The Optimum products, at least I can speak for the OP work better via rotary.



I had resorted to using the OP with smaller, 5/5.5" pads, i.e. white polishing pads on the UDM, some patience and have had MUCH better results. Don't completely tank the OP line. With an orbital the work time is virtually infinite. NO DUST... much easier to clean up. And you don't have to wash the vehicle after polishing to remove the dust created from polishing.
 
fergnation said:
I think it is the polishes. Optimum polishes do the same thing for me. I posted a week ago that I will never touch that stuff again. OH, OC, OP, are jsut about worthless in my opinion. I thought I would finish down with OP on a Bentley and had to go back over it with SIP just to correct the crap it left. I am sorry if there are Optimum fans out there, but that stuff sucks!!! Stick with M105, and Menz products and you can't go wrong. I know they are expensive but atleast you don't have this problem to deal with.
Click to expand...

I also have the same problems with Optimum. They just don't work that well for me on the PC. I only use them with my rotary. I do like them for the non-dust factor so I keep putting up with them.
 
Less said:
Who said anything about a rotary? The OP definitely said he's using a PC. I've never even heard of someone using the black pad for an application that requires any level of cut.



I'm sure the polish itself has cut, so even with a black pad, it might do something. But, in my experience, the black pad isn't firm enough to generate enough heat to do much of anything on a dual action polisher. Perhaps on a rotary, you could generate more heat and get better results. I'm not saying it's impossible



The black pad is for sealants, glazes, and waxes. That's just my opinion based on my own experience and experimentation. Since it doesn't agree with yours I must not have done enough research.



Clearly you know more about the product than the manufacturer and the distributor. So everyone should just listen to you
Click to expand...



You must be a truckload of fun around the holidays! :nixweiss
 
For all you guys that don't like Optimum products, I will gladly take them off your hands.



Great products when used with a rotary and you figure out the learning curve.
 
Less, you have a lot to learn and research. There are no pad categories set in stone. There is no such thing as *black pads are for sealants, glazes and waxes*. Big BS. In order to utilize the finest abrasives in a good finishing polish like PO85RD/RE5 etc, you have to use a pad with zero mechanical cut and a very fine pore structure to ensure homogeneous application. The polish must break down evenly, in a tightly controlled way and that's why we need the fine pore structure (90-100 ppi). The fact that the pads have practically no cut is just an added plus - you can apply LSPs with them, yes. Besides, if you adjust the speed, you can increase the physical action of any pad.



And remember, we are talking about real finishing/burnishing/jeweling, not about Baconhand Joe's hack jobs.



Guys, Optimum has a very stable lube. If you apply too much product, the lube film will be too thick, and the abrasives can not strike it through. In this case the polish won't produce results, since it's just skating on its own lubes. And while slippin' & slidin' is not an option when polishing, you have to use the correct amounts, otherwise the Optimum will not be effective, and leave the surface marred.



I haven't ever used a PC, but with a short throw/high speed DA the OP cooperates very well. Use a stiffer polishing/light cutting pad on speed 6 and it should produce good results.



Correct amounts on a primed 16 cm (6.3 inch) pad:

DSC00320c.jpg
 
Bence said:
Guys (who have issues with OP), can you please specify how much product are you using?



OP is sensitive to overdose...
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What you just posted above. In fact, I remembered seeing your post even before buying optimum polishes and used it as a benchmark. I think they work well, but they can be finicky.
 
I don't know if you're using 3M polishing compounds, but I find they don't work very well with a random orbital. I would switch to Menzerna.







John
 
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