What should my next car be?

Oh good another car discussion. My favorite. Ironically this is a very similar debate I have been tossing around in my head for a replacement of my 993. My thoughts on your list:



Lotus: I love the concept of the Lotus (obviously haven’t driven one yet) and am really excited to drive one. But I don’t think it is going to be a good daily driver as it should be more raw and less refined than your Boxster (will be an awesome track car with the power to weight ratio and handling characteristics). Also very likely it will be priced out of your range initially (1st year or so) because of really high demand low supply and the dealer mark up that is going to take place. If you don’t buy one of the marked up early cars I think this car will hold it value better than any car on your list.



C6: I am not a big vette fan (no offense to anyone as I think they are overall very good cars and a really good performance value just not my taste). I thought the C5 was finally a step in the right direction with regard to build quality and the quality of the materials used (although it is still too “GM� looking for me in the interior). I have not driven or seen the C6 in person so the jury is still out on this. I do think the styling is once again a continued step in the right direction (I think it is the best looking vette since the 60’s) and from the pictures I like the interior lay out and design. Now the question will be build quality and the tactile feel of the interior and switches. I also think it will initially suffer dealer mark up because of high demand and will not be as good a value as it could be until the production has been going for a while. It won’t take near as long as the Lotus but demand will out pace supply for a while.



STI/EVO: Very fun cars to drive and also a very good value. Although, I don’t think I would use the term “refined� to describe anything about them though. I think the interiors show their economy cousin roots and are nothing to get excited about with some really cheap feeling plastic bits. This is not a complaint as I know this was intentional. I think they would be a great to own and drive but given your desires and criteria I don’t think they fit what you are looking for.



996: I don’t drive my 993 daily and I have a beater car that I can’t stand anymore. I want to get a daily driver that I enjoy more. So I am looking to consolidate and am currently I am leaning towards a 996 also. I think they are a very refine 911 and I won’t give a purist bashing of the car as the refinement is obviously something you are looking for. The styling of the interior and is very subjective and obviously you like if because of its similarities to the Boxster. Personally I wish Porsche would have blended the analog airplane style gauges with the better ergonomics of the 996/986 and with the softer dash materials they used in the 00 and later cars. The small gauges and overlapped looks is my biggest complaint on the interior. Much more of a GT type car than the Boxster. The steering and handling aren’t quite as crisp or as quick as the Boxster (but then their aren’t many cars that are) but more forgiving at the limit. Prices very likely will start dropping more quickly than they are now when the 997 comes out. The 996 seems destined to be sinking rock when it comes to depreciation if that is a concern. Overall a very refined 911. Even with the steep depreciation these cars have suffered they are still pricey. Also if they aren’t silver they are black.



What about a BoxsterS?



Here are some ideas I have tossed around with a similar budget to you in mind: (1) Boxster as daily driver and then getting a 951 and modifying it for an incredibly fast and fun weekend/track car; or (2) an early Boxster with a 3.4 996 engine swap (basically a Boxster with 300hp); (3)Boxster or Boxster S with a supercharger. I have also considered the power sedan route like an Audi S4 (would love a RS6 but I don’t have $80+ sitting around and if I did then it would be a 996 Turbo or stretch to a GT3) but I don’t think I would be happy in the long run with the sedan.
 
bet993 said:
Oh good another car discussion. My favorite. Ironically this is a very similar debate I have been tossing around in my head for a replacement of my 993. My thoughts on your list:



Lotus: I love the concept of the Lotus (obviously haven’t driven one yet) and am really excited to drive one. But I don’t think it is going to be a good daily driver as it should be more raw and less refined than your Boxster (will be an awesome track car with the power to weight ratio and handling characteristics). Also very likely it will be priced out of your range initially (1st year or so) because of really high demand low supply and the dealer mark up that is going to take place. If you don’t buy one of the marked up early cars I think this car will hold it value better than any car on your list.



C6: I am not a big vette fan (no offense to anyone as I think they are overall very good cars and a really good performance value just not my taste). I thought the C5 was finally a step in the right direction with regard to build quality and the quality of the materials used (although it is still too “GM� looking for me in the interior). I have not driven or seen the C6 in person so the jury is still out on this. I do think the styling is once again a continued step in the right direction (I think it is the best looking vette since the 60’s) and from the pictures I like the interior lay out and design. Now the question will be build quality and the tactile feel of the interior and switches. I also think it will initially suffer dealer mark up because of high demand and will not be as good a value as it could be until the production has been going for a while. It won’t take near as long as the Lotus but demand will out pace supply for a while.



STI/EVO: Very fun cars to drive and also a very good value. Although, I don’t think I would use the term “refined� to describe anything about them though. I think the interiors show their economy cousin roots and are nothing to get excited about with some really cheap feeling plastic bits. This is not a complaint as I know this was intentional. I think they would be a great to own and drive but given your desires and criteria I don’t think they fit what you are looking for.



996: I don’t drive my 993 daily and I have a beater car that I can’t stand anymore. I want to get a daily driver that I enjoy more. So I am looking to consolidate and am currently I am leaning towards a 996 also. I think they are a very refine 911 and I won’t give a purist bashing of the car as the refinement is obviously something you are looking for. The styling of the interior and is very subjective and obviously you like if because of its similarities to the Boxster. Personally I wish Porsche would have blended the analog airplane style gauges with the better ergonomics of the 996/986 and with the softer dash materials they used in the 00 and later cars. The small gauges and overlapped looks is my biggest complaint on the interior. Much more of a GT type car than the Boxster. The steering and handling aren’t quite as crisp or as quick as the Boxster (but then their aren’t many cars that are) but more forgiving at the limit. Prices very likely will start dropping more quickly than they are now when the 997 comes out. The 996 seems destined to be sinking rock when it comes to depreciation if that is a concern. Overall a very refined 911. Even with the steep depreciation these cars have suffered they are still pricey. Also if they aren’t silver they are black.



What about a BoxsterS?



Here are some ideas I have tossed around with a similar budget to you in mind: (1) Boxster as daily driver and then getting a 951 and modifying it for an incredibly fast and fun weekend/track car; or (2) an early Boxster with a 3.4 996 engine swap (basically a Boxster with 300hp); (3)Boxster or Boxster S with a supercharger. I have also considered the power sedan route like an Audi S4 (would love a RS6 but I don’t have $80+ sitting around and if I did then it would be a 996 Turbo or stretch to a GT3) but I don’t think I would be happy in the long run with the sedan.
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Great Post Brian !:xyxthumbs



Get a good, used 996 Charlie,



I'm sure You would be happy;)



Regards,



Serg
 
Thanks for your detailed reply, Brian.



Funny you want a 996 now...I don't why, but I always assume 993 drivers are crusty curmudgeons who think Porsche lost its way with the water-cooled engine. :)



I can highly recommend a Boxster to you since you haven’t been down that road yet. I would definitely get an S�if I’d gotten a S right off the bat I probably could have “lasted� another year before considering an upgrade. On paper it is about a 15% boost from the 2.7. On the road, it feels like, well, 15%. Not enough to justify trading up, but better to get from the start.



As for me I want something more different than the Boxster, and definitely a coupe. I’m hoping that the handing on the 911 isn’t too much of a step down from the Boxster. But is about time I learn some rear-engine driving skills at any rate. Some 996 people tell me not to worry; it is less agile than the Boxster but more “hunkered down� during hard acceleration out of corners. Speaking of which, you must get PSM with the Boxster (even base) because of its lack of a mechanical limited slip differential. Even just pulling away from a stop sign into a right-hand turn in the wet requires a surprisingly slow launch.



Nonetheless I’m going to try all the cars on my list, and maybe an M3 too. I'd really like to get a 3.6 996; we'll see what happens with 996-->997 depreciation and my money later this summer.
 
BoxsterCharlie said:
Thanks for your detailed reply, Brian.



Funny you want a 996 now...I don't why, but I always assume 993 drivers are crusty curmudgeons who think Porsche lost its way with the water-cooled engine. :)



I can highly recommend a Boxster to you since you haven’t been down that road yet. I would definitely get an S�if I’d gotten a S right off the bat I probably could have “lasted� another year before considering an upgrade. On paper it is about a 15% boost from the 2.7. On the road, it feels like, well, 15%. Not enough to justify trading up, but better to get from the start.
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It is funny you say that because I get a lot of flack from my 993 friends. Truthfully there are many things I like about the 996 and there are some things I really hate (which is why I am so torn with selling and/or replacing my 993). To a degree I think Porsche did lose its way. However I don’t blame it on the water cooled part. I love the sound of the air cooled engines, however I understand the limitations Porsche was facing and understand the decision to go to water cooled. What I didn’t (and still don’t) like was getting rid of the dry sump lubrication in the standard 996 and basically making the engine a little less robust than the 993 engine. I found it really disheartening that the more powerful and robust models like the Turbo, GT2 and GT3 all use engine blocks derived from the 993 instead of the standard 996. These cars also retain dry sump lubrication. I thought this was a real shame and was an example of Porsche losing its way. A little over engineering in the engine is not a bad thing. The same thing can be said bout the transmission. The Turbo, GT2 and GT3 all have a much more robust transmission than the 996. Once again I think a mistake.



My other complaints are nags such as the 996 is a little too refined or I don't like the over lapping gauges. However I understand many of these decisions a lot more than the engineering choices made with the engine and transmission. I would like to have seen more road feel and steering feed back along with more mechanical sensations from the engine. However, I understand the majority of the buyers want a more refined feel than rawness. Additionally the 996's competitors are much more refined in their road mannerisms therefore Porsche felt this was necessary. Plus some of what I want such as the road feel and sound can be obtained with some suspension and exhaust modifications. Appearance, well that is subjective. If I get a 996 it will have an aero kit. I like that much more agressive look, but that is my preference. I like to think I look at the car from an objective point of view vs. air cooled guy type of thing. Eventually I will have another air-cooled car for pure fun.



All this said, the reason I am getting rid of the 993 is because I don’t drive it on a daily basis and I can’t stand driving my beater car anymore. I want something that blends pure sports car with everyday driver. Which seems to be what the 996 is (I still wish it had a better engine and transmission). I wish I was in the position financially that I could keep my 993 and get a different daily driver that I like better.



I had a 2.7 Boxster prior to the 993, so I am familiar with the car. I agree with your assessment of the S vs. the standard Boxster. I also agree that I would not get another Boxster for a daily driver without the PSM (or Please Save Me). The good thing about PSM is that it is much less intrusive than the BMW’s DSC.



My impressions of the handling differences: The Boxster is much more go-kart like with the mid engine design. Very quick turn in but you have to wait later into to corner to really get on the throttle. The Boxster has amazing handling characteristics but if you screw up and get the tail out it is much more difficult (maybe impossible except in the hands of the very best drivers) to catch an bring back. As you noted you have know where and how much throttle you can give it. The Boxster is also a little nervous at higher speeds than the 911. I think that my 993 (it has been lowered with a coilover suspension so the comparison is a little un fair) is much more planted feeling at higher speeds than the Boxster or any of the standard 996’s. I suspect this conclusion would change if the same suspension work was done to a 996. That said the 996 is more stable feeling than the Boxster. The aero kit (all not just the tail) make even a bigger difference giving the 996 more stability at speed.



The 911 has more torque and power and it is readily available. It does not have as quick as turn as the Boxster and may seem “heavy or slow� compared to what you are use to. However the ability to throttle steer the car is easier and the additional torque and power really make the corners fun once you get use to the weight in back. The factory alignment settings of the 996 are set for understeer. However, this can be easily be changed. There are even handling differences among the various 996 cars. The C2 996 has more nervous skittish feel than the C4 996 (note that I am talking differences that are subtle and not extreme). The C4 is heavier and more deliberate feeling than the C2. However, it has a more balanced and planted feel. The awd helps and really makes a difference in anything but the highest grip. Overall with the right tweeks can be very good handling car. These observations are really generic and simple and can only really be experienced with driving them.
 
Just thought of an alternative or more realistically a true second car, virtually any model by Caterham. They are sold in the USA but I have no idea of costs or distribution.



Some specs



R400: 1.8 litre XPower K Series.

16 valve DOHC head

Max Power: 200 bhp @ 7500 rpm

Max torque: 150 lbsft @ 5750 rpm

0-60 mph: 3.9 secs

Max speed:140 mph



R500: 1.8 litre XPower K Series.

16 valve DOHC

Max Power: 230 bhp @ 8600 rpm

Max torque: 155 lbsft @ 7200 rpm

0-60 mph: 3.4 secs

Max speed:150 mph





A heater and windscreen are optional extras :cool:
 

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My jaw just dropped at that Caterham! :)



Ahem, well back to the 996. Brian, I think Porsche must have wasted a lot of money on warranty issues with the M96 motors, primarily with the RMS but also with slipped Lokasil sleeves and other issues. Perhaps they've learned their lesson for the 997/987.



I don't think about it much, but I suppose the 996 is kind of risky deal if I got stuck with a bad one. If I get one I'll try to keep an expensive repair in mind--for me, I know a good race tuning shop who could turn the repair into an enhancement.



Thanks especially for your comments about handling. I look forward to my first test drive.
 
BoxsterCharlie said:
Ahem, well back to the 996. Brian, I think Porsche must have wasted a lot of money on warranty issues with the M96 motors, primarily with the RMS but also with slipped Lokasil sleeves and other issues. Perhaps they've learned their lesson for the 997/987.
Click to expand...



I hope that is the case, but the reports and reading I have seen (of course all speculation at this point) is that the 997/987 will just have an evolution of the M96 motor.



I have been doing a lot of research on the RMS issue because like you I don't want to get a expensive to repair (i.e. engine replacement). The good news is the problem really seems random. The bad news is it seems to effect every MY of the M96 engine equally (there are reported RMS failures on MY 04). I think the Internet seems to make this more of problem than what the real world numbers show.



From my reading, I don't think Porsche knows what is causing the problem (or if they do know the cause they aren't saying). The different seals and different installation procedures and the spec. tool they use to see if the engine needs to be replaced all seem to be band aid fixes to a design problem.
 
~One man’s opinion / observations ~



The fatal error I made while ‘just looking’ at cars was to test drive an Audi TT Roadster 3.2 Quattro







~Hope this is of some help~



Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/

justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
 
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