What happened to this board?

[Chas]

I'll piggy back as a guy who lurks more than contributes, and that may not be fair on my part as I should contribute more. But I'm a weekend warrior and sometimes I get timid posting, I'll deal with that on my own. I think there is a huge separating factor on the forums. I have been on detailing forums for years and I truly enjoy this forum after recently migrating back after some "Autopia Confusion." This Autopia clearly separates itself from forums like AG though, and for one reason I think very highly of, while there may be TONS of posts on forums such as AG and others, the value of the content here is so much richer. This forum is a convergence of experienced minds, vast tutelage, and meaningful friendliness. You don't get that many places. While yeah, it would be nice to have thousands of posts recorded each day to show how active a site is, I think its more important to have valuable content that you provide to subscribers and users, and that's what this site does. I know I can come to Autopia and DB and get the information I need, in mostly unbiased and open minded view points. I don't think we should undermine the substance of the content on this site for the vanity of number of posts. I will always be at this site, and I will always visit here first for the information I need.



For those experts and industry pros on here, don't go away, you have people here who truly appreciate your contributions. I thank you.



This post is not a knock on other forums, as others have said, some forum strategies work better for others, and more power to them if they feel it successful, I do not begrudge anyone.

 

[Concourswanna b]

I think your memory is incorrect. It’s not about quantity, it’s about quality. Maybe because we have the highest concentration of real/seasoned pros and enthusiasts. This forum is very active. Feel free to check out our Alexa info to see that traffic is up 40% in the last 30 days! Autopia.org Site Info We consistently have 3-4 new pages of posts each day. Unlike other related forums that utilize a full time staff to keep their forum content moving to push sales, we don’t. The discussion here is 100% organic, unbiased and not censored. I can’t say that much for many other places and the content you read is spot on in accuracy IMHO. Please keep in mind that Autopia as well as the overall online detailing community has evolved throughout the last decade. Take a stroll through the archives and it’s brutally obvious. Regardless, I’m glad you posted this and hope that you’ll consider contributing again like you did in the past.

True! Good point.

 

[Bunky]

What is that supposed to mean??

People can choose different from several forums to match their interests. They can be single brand lovers, flavor of the month lovers, less commercial forums, forums that are frequented by their friends or favorite detalers, lots of drama or no drama, etc.



As Charlie says, it just depends on how the discussion goes. Personally, newbs will ask very common question and think "use the search function" as a reflex can be discouraging some to post. It can come across as arrogance.

 

[JohnZ3MC]

Truzoom tweaked my memory when he mentoned he doesn't miss the clowns and trolls.



I kind of enjoyed some of them. I remember one fellow, his name began with a 'C' if memory served and he had some sort of a black truck.

He'd ask questions like 'I want the best tire shine in the world and I only want professionals to reply, not you wannabe's.'. or 'Will M105 fix my swirls and idiots need not reply'. That guy was just magical. He'd argue with his grandma and the flame wars would be huge and they were entertaining in a most wonderful manner.



I would log in each day hoping I'd get the newest installment of his daily dramas and that fellow never failed to not entertain.



Along the way, Acc, Setec Astronomy and JohnElliott would add the to the actual knowledge base in a most professional manner but the troll would continue to add to his grief.



Geez, I miss him.



Autopia was a bit of a reality show before the television networks even had reality shows.



'Those were the best of times, those were the worst of times,'



I think somebody famous said that, and I'll take a stab at Charles Dickens.

 

[Accumulator]

As Charlie says, it just depends on how the discussion goes. Personally, newbs will ask very common question and think "use the search function" as a reflex can be discouraging some to post. It can come across as arrogance.

Yeah, I try to remember that when I toss out a quickie repeat of the stuff I/we have posted a million times. Hey, if it helps keep somebody from doing something awful to their ride...

'Those were the best of times, those were the worst of times,'



I think somebody famous said that, and I'll take a stab at Charles Dickens.

That's close, and yeah, Dickens- first (mile long!) sentance of A Tale of Two Cities. Looks like somebody remembered their schooling :xyxthumbs

 

[togwt]

Yeah, I try to remember that when I toss out a quickie repeat of the stuff I/we have posted a million times. Hey, if it helps keep somebody from doing something awful to their ride...

Through early interactions with car forum members I began to see the same questions asked over and over again. To relieve myself of repetition of covering the most frequently asked questions, I decided to log and write down the questions and my answers. Once expanded upon these led to various e-books and the articles in Autopia Detailing Wiki

 

[Bunky]

The same could be said of Mike Phillips in terms of having written so much about what he knows and being repetitive; half of his posts are typically copy/paste of stuff he's written in the past, and it's his paid job to do so (as well as develop new content aimed at pushing the latest stuff and making people want to buy it). Not that there's anything wrong with that, it is obviously a valid strategy that works for him and his employer.



Autopia, on the other hand, doesn't need to use those sort of tactics to drive visitor traffic, as people are already coming to the site specifically to use it as a reference/knowledge-base. Sure, some newbies do post and ask questions, but for every one person who asks a question, there are probably 5 more who just went back into the archives and found what they were looking for on their own.

Isn't that just what Jon (TOGWT) does here at autopia? He was asked back by the board after previously been banned and now has his own wiki and blog and posts in threads with a repeats of summaries he had previously created.

 

[togwt]

Commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. In other words, it’s difficult to know what is true when someone is motivated by income, i.e. directly targeted at product sales, more so than a comercially unbiased opinion. One of the advantages of being independent and not having to answer to shareholders

 

[Accumulator]

Through early interactions with car forum members I began to see the same questions asked over and over again. To relieve myself of repetition....

That reminds me that I *really* oughta type up my wash technique (he says for the millionth time).

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Isn't that just what Jon (TOGWT) does here at autopia? He was asked back by the board after previously been banned and now has his own wiki and blog and posts in threads with a repeats of summaries he had previously created.

Having been asked back to this forum after previously being banned is nothing unique to Jon, nor does it indicate any commercial motives on the part of the owners by asking him back (notice that he rarely if ever mentions a 3D/HDCC product in his material, and never is there a link to a forum affiliated vendor, or any vendor at all for that matter). Heck, a lot of guys got invited back to the forum after being previously banned, myself included. You don't see me out there pimping for 3D do you? That was all about righting the wrongs of the individual who owned and operated this site previously.



And no, what Jon does here is not the same as what Mike Phillips does on AGO. Look at his post count; if he were specifically tasked with driving forum traffic here, it would be at least double what it is now. Mike has built himself a reputation and persona as a bit of a "rockstar" among internet detailers, and as the main go-to source on AGO. He generates a massive amount of material on a daily basis which increases traffic on the AG forum and boosts sales in the AG store. Jon on the other hand is not viewed as the definitive source of information on Autopia, he is just one part of a collaborative effort who contributes in his own way without any sort of ulterior motives as far as I can detect.



Different strokes for different folks... certain personality types and atmospheric conditions work better for some than for others. No one site can be all things for all people, it's just not how the world works.

 

[togwt]

[Jon on the other hand is not viewed as the definitive source of information on Autopia, he is just one part of a collaborative effort who contributes in his own way without any sort of ulterior motives as far as I can detect]



Focusing on one person’s methodologies or the products or tools they use will seriously limit your detailing experience and knowledge. Most importantly - choose carefully whose advice you listen to, and more importantly what advice you act upon.



I would strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you. It is the individual’s responsibility to confirm the information supplied and apply it to their situation.

 

[Bunky]

Since not wanting to get this thread going downhill fast dragging up old issues, I will go back to the original poster said the forum has changed and I agree with him. Everyone can decide if that is a positive or negative statement but ultimate it is the board owners to decide. The response was page views are up so not sure if that is a business goal or just a statement of it is very well alive. I am not sure of their business (financial) objectives and whether they are meeting their targets.



I would like to see more new products discussed and more newbies asking those often heard questions.

 

[Accumulator]

... choose carefully whose advice you listen to, and more importantly what advice you act upon.



I would strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you. It is the individual’s responsibility to confirm the information supplied and apply it to their situation.

THAT!!! Very, very good thing to post :xyxthumbs And not just when it comes to detailing.



The world is full of cyber-chumps these days. Don't be one.

 

[Bunky]

[

I would strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you. It is the individual’s responsibility to confirm the information supplied and apply it to their situation.[/COLOR]

I definitely agree that the quantity of words or presentation does not equate to being an authority no matter where it is posted.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Since not wanting to get this thread going downhill fast dragging up old issues, I will go back to the original poster said the forum has changed and I agree with him. Everyone can decide if that is a positive or negative statement but ultimate it is the board owners to decide. The response was page views are up so not sure if that is a business goal or just a statement of it is very well alive. I am not sure of their business (financial) objectives and whether they are meeting their targets.



I would like to see more new products discussed and more newbies asking those often heard questions.

It's awfully funny, on boards where there are a lot of newbies posting "those often heard questions" a common response is "use the search function before posting questions." This forum is largely used in that manner, and now people want to complain that not enough newbies are posting the same questions repeatedly and are instead using the search function to find information on their own. Can't have it both ways!



The main take-away point as far as I'm concerned is that whenever someone DOES post a question here on Autopia, there are plenty of highly qualified individuals visiting here on a regular basis who can respond with solid advice.



And, as I mentioned before, communities like this one tend to evolve organically -- if you want to see more products discussed, why not start some threads asking about things that pique your curiosity?



When it comes to more newbies repeatedly asking the same questions on a regular basis, it seems you're trying to say there are reasons other than their mastery of the search function causing those individuals to not post. What's on your mind? We can do nothing about it if these folks aren't posting due to some sort of irrational fear about the response they'll get.

 

[David Fermani]

People can choose different from several forums to match their interests. They can be single brand lovers, flavor of the month lovers, less commercial forums, forums that are frequented by their friends or favorite detalers, lots of drama or no drama, etc.



As Charlie says, it just depends on how the discussion goes. Personally, newbs will ask very common question and think "use the search function" as a reflex can be discouraging some to post. It can come across as arrogance.

What I find interesting is how several people choose to post new informative threads on every detail forum out there except this one? And then there’s the ones that only post CnB’s and stay away from the real meat & potatoes which is outside of the CnB section. I’d like to know what’s stopping these people from being active in a different way that may not be entirely just to help themselves? I wish we could turn back time and incorporate a rule that you need # amount of posts before showing off your work, but we can’t. And that wouldn’t be fair. We have so much talent here that I think is just being wasted in so many ways IMHO. I’d like to know what it’s going to take to get people to do their part to help make this occur?? Does anyone ever look though the CnB’s and ask yourself why these people don’t post in the other forums?? That’s the $million question I can’t find the answer to….



The real taleted people back in the day were the ones that would contribute their efforts around the entire forum. These people are a dying bread as far as I’m concerned and I can only think of a few that still remain active doing so and I applaud them for their efforts. And let’s not forgot how so many of these talented people got their start on Autopia by asking and answering questions and sharing information.



Another thing people may or may not be aware of is the type of people coming to this forum compared to others. Unlike some of the other forums, we don’t buy/structure our content to rope in people for a sale. Back in the day that’s what DavidB did and it paid him dividends in doing so because he had a dedicated store that sold multiple lines. That is also the reason why there are less newbies here constantly asking what the best wax is. And that in itself is probably the reason why there is less drama too. That usually starts when someone thinking they know something puffs their chest out in an effort to put someone in check and then the back n forth pursues. The more newbies, the more this goes on. And I also remember the days where people got questioned constantly in their CnB’s. People used to be so critical about what product they used, bad pics they took and their processes that didn’t always align themselves with being Autopian. This dramatically raised the bar on people’s quality not only in their workflow during the detail, but after when they posted more amazing CnBs. Now, with the advancement of so many products average detailers can now look like a pro in their write ups. And that (I feel) is a major reason why they stay away from giving help to others.

I would like to see more new products discussed and more newbies asking those often heard questions.

if you want to see more products discussed, why not start some threads asking about things that pique your curiosity?

Bottom line, what is anyone doing and/or what have you done to make Autopia a better place? And what would you like see happen that would make this place better? And how would it help?



Al - I can't help to ask, but will.....I notice you posting new threads on all the other detail forums except Autopia and tend to play devils advocate any time there is a pro-Autopia/anti-Autopia thread thread both here and elsewhere? Usually defending the other side. You've also coined the term "Uno-Topia" before as well too. Do you have something against this forum that you'd like to share so we can correct these wrongs and work on making this a better place for you and for all.

 

[imported_WCD]

I once mentioned ONE product on ONE forum and was booted the same day. I was accused of PMing members- not true. My profile page was changed by the admin so that "my" page redirected to their store! Unreal!



People are learning that there are only so many chemical plants and that many just order something and put it in their bottles- same with microfiber. I crack up when I see "my" towels from other resellers and I'm sure they do the same. You can only skin a cat so many ways.

 

[Paul Sparks]

Personally I think this forum is headed in the right direction. I joined a long time ago but thought the post and members were way over my head. I went to MOL and then AG where I fit comfortable as a newbie and grew into Truth in Detailing and DB and Detail City as I learned more and more. I as others, got caught up in the hype from a few members pushing certain brands and the flavor of the month club along with some of the drama.As TID and DC came to be no more I wondered back over to Autopia.org realizing I now knew a little of what some of the pro's had been teaching and discussing here for yrs.I haven't abandoned those other forums but post once in a while especially with old friends or on interesting topics.What you see me post on another forum is something I would not be afraid to post on any other forum but usually refrain from to keep from being so repetitive.I do feel at home here thanks to the warm welcome from the members and contributions from many regulars.I have yet to master posting pictures but hope to soon have that task taken care of and will have members soon get tired of my reviews and articles.lol. So to David F ,the other mods,Ben and the people from 3D that pay the bills,thanks for what you do. I think you have a winning combination here. There may be a few bumps in the road but nothing your crew can't handle.



PS. If you are reading this , how about showing up in the Thursday night chat room !

 

[Barry Theal]

The good ole Autopia.org Forum and what has happened to it? Thats a good question. As life evolves things change, for me nothing on Autopia has changed. Its still the most knowledgeable based forum out there. While yes the ownership has changed overtime, the quality and openess to discuss anything hasn't. I have noticed some don't post as much, and I am one of them. I should post alot more, but it hasn't been easy.



Autopia.org has changed my life dramiticly over the last few years. Its help me and encouraged me to chase dreams. Dreams that are becoming a reality. Autopia was a place where you once came to bring it! You came to prove yourself, learn and help others. In my eyes anyways. When I first came to Autopia I was just a local guy who was good at what he did. I went to work and came home, hung my hat and called it a day. So several years later, I now own a shop with 10 employees that does both highend detailing and volume dealer work. To throw into the mix I just started a another company with some guys to distribute chemicals. I just wonder what I would be doing if I never found Autopia. Autopia has helped me a have a life beyond my wildest dreams. Sometimes I need threads like this to fully remember how it all got started. To the OP thanks for a great post. It really brought into perspective that I need to really start giving back to the place the paved my path for success! I wonder how many others started out here, and don't post as much? I can think of alot.

 

[imported_MCA]

I must warn you in advance as I will digress......



Anyone new to the art-of-car-detailing initially assumes that it is the last step product that brings the pop, shine, gloss, bling, etc to their vehicle. "My car is swirled and scratched to hell, but I want to correct it....so should I use Nu Finish or this Flavor-of-the Month wax that is on VIP/BOGO sale?" Veterans of the art-of-car-detailing will answer that question with a resounding "Who gives a $%^&?" Although that is the correct answer, it is not something the new guys want to hear or care to hear. LSP-talk is sexy - People can recite and brag about having 50 waxes but they can't recall the number of polishes they own. The last step is also the easiest part of the process to understand and perform. It should be no surprise that a high percentage of detailing threads on other forums (including non-detailing oriented forums) revolve around LSPs.



In my opinion, the current forum selection is a progression of sorts. You start up at AGO where you can argue/discuss to your heart’s delight about LSPs and the basics of polishing. As your knowledge of detailing matures, you “graduate” to other forums such as Autopia and DB. I am sure that this path is not intended but I am sure it is happening – just look at the thread subjects for Autopia/DB – minimal LSP discussion and more discussion about the other aspects of detailing. Throw in the fact that most of the AGO posters were registered in the past 2 years (which is the complete opposite of Autopia). There is just a different set of readers and contributors here. Those new to detailing are missing or are in constant lurker mode as evidenced by the 25 members and 500 guests currently online.



I am sure that the folks at AG saw something similar and brought in Mike Phillips – which IMO was pretty darn smart. He brings a ton of knowledge and credibility to their forums and is one of the reasons I still frequent AGO. It is not a coincidence that 90% of his postings are about the non-LSP steps of detailing. His posts can be repetitive and filled with hyperlinks to previous posts, but that reiteration is exactly what “newbies” need.



As for Autopia, we (as in the members) have to open up and cater a bit to the new guy. I don’t mean this as disrespect but there sometimes can be an air (stench) of Elitism in postings. Instead of taking a scientific approach and asking for any missing details of the situation, some replies have a negative tone of “what the heck were you thinking?” or “I can’t believe you are asking this?” Members here also do not like to repeat what has been said several times in the thread – Personally, I don’t have a problem with this but the aforementioned new guy needs affirmation – he/she is just learning the craft and may assume that only 2 replies to his/her thread means the board is dead. Once again, it may not be the intent, but perception is reality.



I already know the replies for some "TLDR" :wink: