What does "protection" really mean?

A

amarriapeas

New member
Since we're in the middle of yet another drought in PA I'm thinking about my detailing plans for the summer.



1. Removing rust from a paint chip before touching it up. Somebody once told me to use Navel Jelly to remove the rust. Is this a good idea, or is there a better way?



2. Cleaning wheel wells. I know the general consensus is to use cheap silicone products(armor all ,STP) but silicone is real migratory right? Isn't this bad if it gets on engine belts etc. I've seen first hand what STP does to a serpantine belt after my sister kept spraying it on to stop it from squeaking :eek:



Thanks!
 
I've had real good success with GS27 scratch remover on rust spots. I would imagine that Meguiar's ScratchX would work too.
 
Okay, so I have my cynical hat on today, but we are often talking about "protection" when putting on the LSP of our choice, but "protection" from what?

Yes, I know, "the elements", bird droppings, rail dust, dirt, sand, salt etc...

But, has anyone ever proven that LSP's really do protect? Also, has anyone ever compared a car that has been "protected" for its life vs. a car that hasn't in a controlled situation and under similar circumstances?

In other words, if such a test was done, after 5 years, what would be the difference between both cars? I'm sure someone is going to say... "well one would look like this (insert crappy looking car here) and the other will look like this (insert nice car here)".

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE detailing and always will (regardless of whether it offers a benefit or not - because I find it relaxing), but my father's car is 9 years old and has probably been waxed 4 times in that time. Paint looks great (swirled, but still great - car is silver so swirls are not that noticeable).

What would have happened if he waxed it 4 times a year? Would it look "more great"?

Also, when we talk about "protection", I find if you get the right bird, to drop the right amount of crap on your car and it has the right acidity level, it will etch your paint, regardless of the LSP.

I find the BEST "protection" against certain types of teradactyl poop is immediate removal. So, what say you? Are LSPs really providing "protection"?
 
Your thread encouraged me to do some google research

I found many bogus claims. Here are three.

1. Waxing your car regularly prevents rust. (rust usually starts where paint is chipped or more predominantly at the underbody that is beaten by stones, grit, salt, etc., or panel joints. I have seen hoods, tops, trunk lids, fenders and more of 50 year old cars in junkyards that are not rusted. Paint is a great rust prevention film.

2. Regular waxing prevents scratches, dents and scrapes. I don't care how many layers of wax are on my car, a door ding will appear someday. If one believes that claim, stand about 7 ft. from your car and toss the keys on the hood.

3. Exaggeration. A regular waxing enriches the emollients in the paint and keeps the paint flexible and alive. Really? Is that a hype or a guarantee?

I love to detail my cars. But, I am convinced that sealants and waxes are mostly cosmetic, not protective of scrapes, scratches and dents. My cars are garaged 80% of their life (even when at work)
 
Well I would say more then anything, that it's "Protection" from UV rays from the Sun? I mean, It seems like some people forget the whole protection purpose is to prevent cars paint from fading? yes Carnuba wax and synthetic polymer sealants act different to other natural contaminates, but I think the original purpose of waxes were to prevent paint from fading and to keep it healthy?


I know I have seen the cars that weren't waxed EVER, that have turned pink of faded out, vs. the cars who were well maintained and waxed, even if they are not garaged kept which looked good 10-15 years later?
 
User Name said:
Okay, so I have my cynical hat on today, but we are often talking about "protection" when putting on the LSP of our choice, but "protection" from what?

Yes, I know, "the elements", bird droppings, rail dust, dirt, sand, salt etc...

But, has anyone ever proven that LSP's really do protect? Also, has anyone ever compared a car that has been "protected" for its life vs. a car that hasn't in a controlled situation and under similar circumstances?
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There have been independent studies that have show certain products have great protection against certain elements, but it seems that the fine print is that the 'independent study' is funded by the manufacturer. Hmmm.

I have seen cars that have been taken car of and waxed often and I have seen cars that haven't been taken car of that look terrible after a couple of years. How much is attributed to waxing vs. any other variable is debatable.

In other words, if such a test was done, after 5 years, what would be the difference between both cars? I'm sure someone is going to say... "well one would look like this (insert crappy looking car here) and the other will look like this (insert nice car here)".
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I'm guessing that the car that has been taken car of and waxed would have a cleaner surface and that the paint would have been less damaged by UV rays, fall out, etc. Whether or not this difference is going to be noticable is going to depend on a huge number of variables.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE detailing and always will (regardless of whether it offers a benefit or not - because I find it relaxing), but my father's car is 9 years old and has probably been waxed 4 times in that time. Paint looks great (swirled, but still great - car is silver so swirls are not that noticeable).
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Many modern clear coats have great durability in and of themselves. This is why if something (like a bird bomb) is strong enough to damage the paint than even the best sealants/waxes are only going to offer limited protection.

What would have happened if he waxed it 4 times a year? Would it look "more great"?
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Being silver and in a northern (I'm assuming?) climate, the difference could be very small. But take a black daily driver that is in a tropical climate, and I believe you would find that the color will look richer (again how much is anybodies guess) and that there may be less damage from fall out, pitching, etching, etc.

I also think you find less or more shallow swirl marks (since a coat of wax/sealant should release dirt more readily requiring less 'scrubbing' and provide a slight barrier against the lightest of swirls.


Also, when we talk about "protection", I find if you get the right bird, to drop the right amount of crap on your car and it has the right acidity level, it will etch your paint, regardless of the LSP.
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This is true. Clear coat is far tougher than wax, if something can damage the clear it is going to penetrate the wax (or sealant). However the wax or sealant should provide some level of sacrificial barrier that gives the owner more time to remove the bird bomb.

I find the BEST "protection" against certain types of teradactyl poop is immediate removal. So, what say you? Are LSPs really providing "protection"?
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Yes they are, but again how much is open for debate. I reference older single stage paints and gel-coats. If they are waxed they will still oxidize, but the rate itself is much slower. So there is something on the paint and it is offering some protection, but there is no wax or sealant that I know of that is going to magically seal the paint and provide 100% protection against all of the elements.
 
All paint protection is of a sacrificial nature. Waxes and sealants are just a buffer between you paint coating and the elements. Damage has to go thru the body guard to get to the primary. Coatings take this a little further by offering unparalled repelancy and a bodyguard that is more difficult to get thru. All protectants also add a certain level of "slickness" which reduces friction that can cause scratches. Now with all of that said, it's up to the vehicle owner to decide how much time or money to put into keeping the paint coat lookin good.


Sent from my ViP4 viaTapatalk
 
Useful responses from everyone, thank you.

I would like to know, if there is any way to test the veracity of the claim regarding UV rays. I do find this one VERY believeable because we are able to protect our own skin from UV rays, so why not paint?

The only concern I would have with this claim is that UV protection might not last beyond, say, a few days.

Todd,

Your response is really a good one and the distinction between a black car in a warm climate vs. me in the great white north, is something I didn't contemplate.

Don't get me wrong with all my questions... I'll be a life long detailer, I'm just no convinced about all of this "protection" talk. I do it because I enjoy it, like the way my car looks and feels when I'm done and it beats the alternative of being dragged to various shopping malls with wifey!
 
Ive seen cars that are never waxed but are washed often and kept in a garage, that after 5 years still look good I myself do not wax for protection, I wax for the look. I want a car thats a rolling mirror. I know one guy that keeps his cars in the garage when not being used , washes often and maybe uses a polish 2 or 3 times a year . The polish he uses is Meguiars Deep Chrystal #2 which as everbody knows provides no protection at all. His cars always look great , and one of his cars is black.
 
One thing I can tell you for sure, I've never had a rail dust problem (rail dust stuck to / into paint) while my car wax waxed / sealed.

Think about the contaminants that your brand new car had after driving it home from the lot, and how many of those contaminants after claying, polishing and waxing are there now...or a month from now (little to none, most likely).

In my opinion, if your car is going to spend extended periods of time outside, the sacrificial barrier that wax or sealant provides is well worth the time and effort.
 
I bought a new Ford Fusion last July (Tuxedo Black Metallic) and when I got it home I checked the paint for contaminates and swirls. None found. So, not all new cars are contaminated, swirled or in need of clay and polish. I applied Mothers Wax and Topcoat and got excellent results.

Maybe they are doing a better job of protecting the paint during delivery.

I'm considering Blackfire this spring, followed by more Blackfire to step it up a few notches.

I know. This isn't indicative of all new cars.
 
Mr. Gloss said:
I bought a new Ford Fusion last July (Tuxedo Black Metallic) and when I got it home I checked the paint for contaminates and swirls. None found. So, not all new cars are contaminated, swirled or in need of clay and polish. I applied Mothers Wax and Topcoat and got excellent results.

Maybe they are doing a better job of protecting the paint during delivery.

I'm considering Blackfire this spring, followed by more Blackfire to step it up a few notches.

I know. This isn't indicative of all new cars.
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It think just depends on the dealer. When we picked up one car about 10 yrs ago, the salesman took it to the local car wash to clean it up prior to delivery! (I do not know enough then). The last two cars were in excellent condition -few swirls.

Mothers Reflections will make the metallic pop on Tuxedo Black. Top Coat will tame it back down.
 
I've found some products do protect against water spots. This is a big one for me. There has been some concern that Zaino in particular, possibly in part due to its crazy beading, may actually make water spotting an even more significant issue on some cars. I personally do not use Zaino based on my observations with this.
 
well many quality wax and sealant products also protect the paint from the varieties of UV rays from the sun, i know this as a fact because i have a ford ranger and the clear is going, however i regularly wax it now to prevent further damage. so far it has really shown a difference. of course nothing is full proof, in fact wax and sealant coatings are more of a preventative measure than anything. wax is not permanent protection from material substances like bird droppings, sap, and oxidation from salt air by the ocean but it sure helps to wax and seal paint, that is why we detailers are hired by people who care about the condition of their paint. i guarantee that if you did put side by side pictures of two vehicles of same make, model and year after five and especially after ten years of use, the non waxed vehicle would definitely show, depending on what kind of weather the paint has seen and where the vehicles had been stored of course.
 
User Name said:
Useful responses from everyone, thank you.

I would like to know, if there is any way to test the veracity of the claim regarding UV rays. I do find this one VERY believeable because we are able to protect our own skin from UV rays, so why not paint?

The only concern I would have with this claim is that UV protection might not last beyond, say, a few days.

Todd,

Your response is really a good one and the distinction between a black car in a warm climate vs. me in the great white north, is something I didn't contemplate.

Don't get me wrong with all my questions... I'll be a life long detailer, I'm just no convinced about all of this "protection" talk. I do it because I enjoy it, like the way my car looks and feels when I'm done and it beats the alternative of being dragged to various shopping malls with wifey!
Click to expand...

I personally don't think there's really any question about the protection factor. I can't tell you how many cars I've detailed where the owner admits they NEVER wax the car...ever. The oxidation on some of these cars are unbelievable, the paint is literally flat. This is where paint begins to brake down and is much more prone to start rusting. This happens a ton with single stage paint too. However, when someone bring me their car and they are somewhat of an enthusiast meaning they enjoy cleaning and waxing their car occasionally, I NEVER see horrible oxidation like I do with the people that admit to never waxing.

I don't believe for a second that waxing a car will protect it from most hard knocks or scratches obviously but I very much believe that light scratches can help be avoided in the cars paint is maintained. If paint is wax regularly and the paints surface is nice and slick, something like a zipper on a jacket or a toy from one of your kids will be less likely to leave a mark because with the surface being so slick. If your paint is really oxidized or you have no protection, paint is more grabby and scratched much easier because of how the surface tension is less. Think if a black hood of a car has a little dust on it and NO wax at all. Now imagine taking a microfiber towel and wiping the dust away. Well since there's no wax and no slickness, the dust will obviously dig into the paint a little bit. Now if you have the same hood that has a good layer of wax on it, the the dust comes off a LOT easier with a way smaller chance of swirling or marring the paint up. I prove this every summer because I love using a California Duster on my G35. Some people freak out that I'd use it on my paint but it's only because I know how and when to use it that I do. I use it all summer with NO marring or swirling because I only use it when my car has fresh wax on it or I use a QD spray recently to bring the slickness back up. Because of this, the dust comes right off with NO issues. So yea, there's NO DOUBT in my mind in regards to whether of not there's measurable protection or not. I guess it just comes down to what your personal definition of "protection" is.
 
I know that two days after applying Klasse AIO sealant to a black Infiniti G35, a bird bomb landed on it, and visible etching occured after sitting on it for 1-2 days before I noticed it.

Kind of wimpy protection to me.
 
Shizam.......I do not know of any wax or sealant thats going to completely protect from bird droppings/etching.Unfortunetly!!

It probably had more to do with what the bird ate and how big the bomb was rather than the Klasse sealant.
 
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