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<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Every Little Detail [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Scott,
1/I did read exactly what you wrote it was unclear until know that you do 400 details out of 1000 appointments a year. Unless these cars are in like new condition all you can do by hand with just about any polish is glazing and filling in any swirls. The heat generated by either a wool pad or a foam pad allows the paint defects to be corrected through a burnishing effect. If you had any experience in using a rotary you would know that foam pads actually generate more heat than a wool pad.[/b]</blockquote>
I don't think I was unclear about anything, and you are still don't seem to understand what I wrote:
<strong class='bbc'>60% of the cars I clean are weekly washes, and the other 40% are either full details, exterior or interior only details.[/b]
That does not mean I do 400 full details a year. It means that of the 400 cars that are not strictly washes, they are a combination of full, exterior or interior details.
This week, for instance, I have only one full detail scheduled. All the rest are washes or wash/wax jobs. Usually, on average, I do 3-5 full details a week, probably 3-5 wash/waxes a week and usually at least 10-15 washes.
I can't make it any clearer than that.
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As far as heat generated by wool vs foam, my information and some actual experience comes from a body shop owner I do details for. He uses wool for cutting, regular foam for swirl removal and foam waffle pads for finishing. I have worked out some fenders for him as practice when I first started detailing and was doing finishing work for him to supplement my income. Maybe there have been some changes in wool pads since then (1993-1994) when I was working with, but my experience was that the stronger cutting power added more heat and made paint more likely to burn.
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<strong class='bbc'>2/ I agree that a wool pad has more cutting power than a foam pad although there are many types to choose from in both varieties. I have never found anything better than the genuine lambswool pad sold by autoint.com for dark colured cars. Maybe you can let me in on your secret for getting rid of swirls and marring caused by inexperienced or sloppy work with a rotary. My experience is that any marring caused by a machine can only be corrected by a rotary in the right hands and possibly followed by the PC for perfection.[/b]</blockquote>
I use Meguiars Dual Action Cleaner/Polish and terry cloth towels as my starting point. I fold the towels into 1/8ths and working one section at a time, I work the DAC/P into the paint until nearly clear and dry using a back and forth motion, then buff off the excess. I follow with Meguiars Swirl Free Polish, again using terry cloth towels folded into 1/8ths, using the same technique as the DAC/P. I then follow with Meguiars Hand Polish and a foam hand pad, again working back and forth until the product is nearly clear and dry. Sometimes I have to go over an area two or three times with DAC/P to really make headway, but once the majority of the swirls are removed, then the SR and HP really finish the surface off nicely.
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<strong class='bbc'>3/ The reason you see swirls on all the dealer preped cars are they are leaving out a step i.e. going back over the car with a finishing product and a foam finishing pad.These products contain only a small amount of abrasives and alot of cleaners the combo will take out all the micro marring caused by the cutting compound.[/b]</blockquote>
You are right about this-and this is why I would not let the average detail shop use a wool pad on my car. It isn't the owner of the business doing the work, but some kid paid $6.50 an hour who really doesn't care if there are swirls as long as the paint shines.
How about if I modify my statement a bit:
Unless the detailer is consistantly working on high end cars and is willing to show the results of his work, then don't let them use a wool pad on your car. If you can see their work, and it is swirl free, then let them have at it. Okay?
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<strong class='bbc'>4/I a car was in like new condition I would use the PC polishing component with a finishing product. My reference to your hand not being able to vibrate at 2000x/min is in reference to the action that the PC emulates. A couple of passes with the PC is the same as you polishing a 2'x2' area for 10 min by hand. As far as I know time is money in this business.[/b]</blockquote>
I've buffed out some pretty rough cars by hand (oxidized), and yes, it did take a couple hours to bring the paint back to where it really shined, but cars like that are now not quite as common as when I started in the early 90's. Most clear coated cars that are well cared for need very little surface prep when compared to cars without clear coats.
94% of my business is repeat or referral, and most cars I clean are well taken care of, and more often than not, I have been cleaning them since they were brand new. Those cars are usually a breeze to do. I do get the occaisional turd of a car, but it is more likely that the interior is the real problem.
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<strong class='bbc'>5/ Perhaps to settle this debate let us imagine a 99 Black BMW 325i with minor swirls a few etchings in the paint from bird droppings and a little industrial fallout from being parked outside during the work day. The car was detailed with a polymer 6 months ago. You do half the car your way and I'll do half the car the way I think it should be done. I would ABC my half to neutralize any residual acid caused by the industrial fallout, acid rain etc. remove any metal particles and bring the paint to the perfect PH level. I would then polish with Valueguard Pre Conditioner using the rotary set at 1200rpm with a genuine Lambswool pad and follow it up with an application of OEM Onestep polymer using the PC and a black foam pad from CMA. You would have also done your stuff to the other side using your protectall wash and a hand application of whatever polish you use follwed by the wax or polymer of your choice. Now we wipe down the hood with alcohol to remove the polmer and any polishes. I guarantee my side will be swirl free and have a brillant shine, what will your side look like? That is the true test!
with
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What would this prove? I've never even heard of some of the products you are using, so I cannot judge how the Meguiars Body Shop Professional line will stack up against them, although I have a feeling they would be comparable. I also do not have to worry about acid rain and industrial fallout in the Dallas area, so I am not sure what additional problems they present concerning time, products needed or effort. Most two year old cars that are reasonably well maintained around here would at the most need some Swirl Free Polish, followed by Hand Polish then Meguiars High Tech Yellow #26-maybe some claying before hand-depends on the slickness of the paint. Often, all that is needed is Hand Polish followed by #26.
You do your customer's cars your way, and I will do my customer's cars my way. I have been in business full time nearly 8 years, and I have customers who have been with me since I was still part time, so I must be doing something right. One of my regulars has a Bentley Continental SC, Lamborghini Diablo, Mercedes S600, Lincoln Navigator, Regency Conversion Suburban, 1969 Chevelle SS, and 3 Harley Davidsons. I am sure if someone who can afford that many cars, including the exotics would drop me in an instant if I was doing substandard work. I can definately guarantee if he saw me with a buffer near any of his cars, that would be the last time I did any work for him.
I am sure your customers are equally happy with you. You seem to be taking the necessary steps to properly address the problems you find in the paint of your customer's cars. You do seem to be a little hostile to those who do not detail cars 'your way'. Lighten up. Your methods work well for you, and my methods work well for me. The important thing is that our customers are happy with the work we do.
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