What causes swirls?

D

DCT

New member
Thought this might be a useful thread...

What parts of the detailing process do you feel cause swirls (not buffer swirls).

What creates those swirls in that particular process?

Also, which single detailing task do you feel can create the most swirls?

Later on in the "show", I'll add my thoughts. :D
 
This subject has been discussed quite regularly in the past, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. Personally, I think improper washing and drying techniques will cause more damage than anything during a normal detailing process. Now, I've seen people take Scotch pads and very harsh rubbing compounds(the ones that feel like liquid 80 grit sandpaper) to their vehicle which caused a lot of damage, but I wouldn't dare to say that was in the realm of any normal detailing process.
 
The washing/drying process would get my vote for causing the most problems.

One thing that I personally feel happens a lot is that people don't have their vehicle "clean" when they start the drying process.
If whatever they use to dry the vehicle gets dirty, then the vehicle wasn't clean after the wash.
Most DIY spray washes leave a lot of stuff on the vehicle when people get out the towel and start wiping.

Charles
 
CharlesW said:
The washing/drying process would get my vote for causing the most problems.

One thing that I personally feel happens a lot is that people don't have their vehicle "clean" when they start the drying process.
If whatever they use to dry the vehicle gets dirty, then the vehicle wasn't clean after the wash.
Most DIY spray washes leave a lot of stuff on the vehicle when people get out the towel and start wiping.

Charles
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+1 ;)
 
The correct answer to the first part, would be "any time you touch the paint". I won't bother going into all "many" the reasons... it's already been said here many times. Sorry I brought it up again.
 
DCT said:
The correct answer to the first part, would be "any time you touch the paint". I won't bother going into all "many" the reasons... it's already been said here many times. Sorry I brought it up again.
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If you never touch the paint, it would lessen the swirls but I really don't think you would have a swirl free finish even then.
Just the rain and dust in the air would probably cause some marring.
I'm also not too sure that "any time you touch the paint" will cause blemishes. The closest I ever get to a swirl free finish is right after I have finished polishing and waxing/sealing my paint which was done with a lot of touching of the paint.
Another thought that I have is that some of the flaws are actually in the LSP as well as the paint itself. I have used a non abrasive paint cleaner and removed what appeared to be swirls prior to applying another coat of my LSP. I don't think the paint cleaner removed many swirls in the paint, just those that were in the LSP.

Charles
 
linkj12 said:
People who use everyday bath towels :crazy2: :crazy:
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That would depend a great deal on the quality of those everyday bath towels.
Remember that MF is a relatively new product to detailing and we did a fairly decent job with good cotton towels for a lot of years.

Charles
 
DCT said:
The correct answer to the first part, would be "any time you touch the paint". I won't bother going into all "many" the reasons... it's already been said here many times. Sorry I brought it up again.
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I know that you are feeling picked on this a.m. because of a comment made in sincerity but I have to point out that, although you answered the question, it may not be quite accurate. It certainly is possible, that marring may occur every time one touches the paint but it certainly doesn't preclude absolutely, that marring will occur. Only the possibility is there.

I own a black truck and live with marring. Yet I can say that with proper techniques, marring can be held to a minimum. Not every portion of my truck is marred from detailing(touching my truck). Just the areas that I may have put to much pressure on the paint or did not change the MF towel soon enough or what ever the reason. Just because I touch the paint does not mean that I am doing damage. It just means that damage is possible. If your statement was true then it would be in my best interest to not touch my paint ever again. I do not think that I could do that even if your statement were true.
 
CharlesW said:
If you never touch the paint, it would lessen the swirls but I really don't think you would have a swirl free finish even then.
Just the rain and dust in the air would probably cause some marring.
I'm also not too sure that "any time you touch the paint" will cause blemishes. The closest I ever get to a swirl free finish is right after I have finished polishing and waxing/sealing my paint which was done with a lot of touching of the paint.
Another thought that I have is that some of the flaws are actually in the LSP as well as the paint itself. I have used a non abrasive paint cleaner and removed what appeared to be swirls prior to applying another coat of my LSP. I don't think the paint cleaner removed many swirls in the paint, just those that were in the LSP.

Charles
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:bigups
 
CharlesW said:
That would depend a great deal on the quality of those everyday bath towels.
Remember that MF is a relatively new product to detailing and we did a fairly decent job with good cotton towels for a lot of years.

Charles
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What I was trying to say is, dont use towels that you use everyday such as taken a shower, spill clean ups and wipe down with who knows what chemicals is on the towels. Keep some Terry towels strictly for your vehicles.
 
No, I am correct.

Of course you have to touch the paint! The whole intent of this discussion was to hopefully talk about the process, products, and tools one can use to minimize marring.

Doesn't matter now. You can use the search function to find all the answers.
 
Well, you might have included your intent in your original post to get the specific answers you're looking for.

I do think that a lot of the time when you're making contact with the paint, you have the potential to cause swirls at any point in the detailing process. At the same time, I don't think that I'm going to create a swirl or scratch by simply placing a finger on my freshly washed paint. There are very few things in life that are certain or garunteed to happen the same way every time you do something.
 
linkj12 said:
What I was trying to say is, dont use towels that you use everyday such as taken a shower, spill clean ups and wipe down with who knows what chemicals is on the towels. Keep some Terry towels strictly for your vehicles.
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And you are correct.
I personally feel that the use of the wrong drying or washing process and products can and do cause most of the marring problems.
A good wash mitt with dirty water, a good MF towel wiped over a less than clean finish. The good products can't do their job because of the bad use.
By the same token, careful washing and drying with the wrong towels, mitts or rags can cause the same marring. Good technique, but not so good products.

And I'm all for discussion even though I don't have all the answers. Heck, I don't even have all the questions.
The search feature is handy, but it isn't always easy to find what you are looking for. I seem to quite often come up with only a couple of threads and when I expand my search, then I come up with waaay too many to read.
Also, many times a new thread will bring out some new information. We have lots of new members with new and different ideas and the new products just keep on coming.

Charles
 
CharlesW said:
And you are correct.
I personally feel that the use of the wrong drying or washing process and products can and do cause most of the marring problems.
A good wash mitt with dirty water, a good MF towel wiped over a less than clean finish. The good products can't do their job because of the bad use.
By the same token, careful washing and drying with the wrong towels, mitts or rags can cause the same marring. Good technique, but not so good products.
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Charles,

First, sorry I got out of control a little bit there. :D

Anyhow, I couldn't agree more with what has been said about washing and drying.

As a matter of fact, what you said previously about improper washing is a 100% true. A lot of folks do not get "ALL" the dirt off the vehicle. I'm sure most folks, including myself on rare occasions :D, have seen that "mysterious" spot of dirt on their drying towel.

That's why I'm a big fan of using Spray & Wipe and a super soft WW towel for my drying process.

When I get done trying out my new Guzzler WW's, I'll come back with some other thoughts.
 
To me marring of the paints surface is caused by improper cleaning and drying techniques and in-proper towels...

During the wash stage if you do not remove all the dirt form the surface that can cause marring, even with the right towels..so cleaning is the first step to reducing the marring. That said washing with a clean mitt is also a factor...I have reduce marring on mt jet black tremendously by using good quality wash mitt that I keep extra clean, quality soap and good WW MF towels...

As Charles said MF are new to the industry, I use to be able to get good results with my terry towels, but you had to buy good quality ones, and keep turning them, the dirt would sit on the surface of those unlike MF and scratch the surface allot
 
one thing i noticed years ago that caused marring was highway driving in the rain ...all the dirt being kicked up and then being dragged along the car at high speed always made me want to polish and re-wax after a trip.
 
Poorboy said:
one thing i noticed years ago that caused marring was highway driving in the rain ...all the dirt being kicked up and then being dragged along the car at high speed always made me want to polish and re-wax after a trip.
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Interesting observation.
Didn't I just read a few posts back that "you have to touch the paint"?

FWIW, I do agree with your observation and I don't agree that it is necessary to "touch the paint" to have marring.
And I also realize that I may not be correct in that opinion, but I haven't read anything in this thread to make me think I'm not.

Charles
 
I think there are many ways to induce swirls ..touching would be one way, driving environment such as highways, dirt roads, behind cement trucks :eek:
 
CharlesW said:
Interesting observation.
Didn't I just read a few posts back that "you have to touch the paint"?
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Actually, I don't think they said "you have to touch the paint", they said "any time you touch the paint".

They never said "that's the only time you can get swirls". :D
 
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