What are your thoughts on wet sanding factory paint?

I also do not like to do the roof on the Explorer. My worst enemy is on the intake, the darn hose. Its long, shaped like a cylinder and in a waffle pattern, and dirt and grime gets down in the creases on the waffle type things. Any Explorer owner shoudl know what I mean. It takes several shots of degreaser and scrubbing like mad to get the junk out of it, but the final result is well worth it :)
 
Windows are a snap with the Glass MF towel and a flannel cloth.

No scrubbing and worrying about streaks. Just wipe and then buff dry. 30 secs to do front or rear windshield to perfection. Just backhand the towels in the hard to reach spots. I do like Stoners Invisible glass and newspaper for the exterior if there is alot of bug goop, but the MF/flannel works as well.

H
 
Inside windows on the 330i are a pain, as are the wheels but using (Hot Rims) right before washing helps out a bunch.



The roof of the wife's 4Runner! I'm a short guy and it also holds a lot of water! I removed the cross-ribs on the roof-rack and it has made the job much easier to do. I never use the roof-rack so it's no big deal to have the cross-ribs gone.



Oh yes, one more thing: I can't stand my neighbors comments about my cleaning of the cars. Why do they have to make comments every time I wash my cars? It hurts man :(
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Brad B. [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Boxster: The rear plastic window. Impossible. :mad:
[/b]</blockquote>

Your Porsche dealer should carry a plastic polish for use on the rear window. One of my customers has a Boxster, and after struggling to clean the rear window with conventional plastic polishes, I asked her to ask her dealer if they had a product they recommend. They did, and she bought it. She just leaves it in the little slot in the console for me to use each time. Works great!:up
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by bigboyhf [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Windows are a snap with the Glass MF towel and a flannel cloth.
No scrubbing and worrying about streaks. Just wipe and then buff dry. 30 secs to do front or rear windshield to perfection. Just backhand the towels in the hard to reach spots. I do like Stoners Invisible glass and newspaper for the exterior if there is alot of bug goop, but the MF/flannel works as well.
H [/b]</blockquote>
Eagle's 20/20 window cleaner is great. Pretty much the only Eagle product I think is worth a damn, but it really works well, and not only does it clean the windows, but it makes them repel water, ala Rain X, although the effect is slightly less pronounced.
 
Good to visit with you guys again. We've had a few threads devoted to this topic and I still hate cleaning windows, especially the front one. You can spend a good 30 minutes cleaning the inside and outside of the windows. The thing that is most frustraating is that they get so dirty and rather quickly at that. You can't even drive a few blocks and your front windshield is dusty or slightly grimy. For the Autopian perfectionist in us, this is a no-win situation. I actually enjoy detailing rims, regardless of how long it takes. Its somewhat comforting knowing that they will remain relatively clean for a few days. Klasse SG or Meguiar's #20 helps quite a bit. Laters.
 
What are your thoughts on wet sanding factory paint? I know it can be done but you need to be very careful since factory cc is very thin yada yada yada.

What I am interested in discussing is... Do you think all the protection and/or UV protection is in the outer most layer?

I have talked to a few body men painters including my brother who is a painter for a living and he has also gone to a few classes and talked to a few paint reps and they all say that if you do not have to break the outer shell of the paint, hence, wet sand you should not do it because this outer layer has the most protection in it and the car will be more susceptible to bird bombs, acid rain etching and possibly even fading. Most will say if it is a garage queen or show car you are usually OK.

What are your thoughts?

I have done quite a few cars and have never had a problem or seen any type of cc failure due to this but do suspect that there is some truth to what the painters are saying.

Of course on repaints where the painter is expecting to cut the paint in order to provide a 100% smooth finish they usually lay down extra cc which is fine. It is the factory paint that is questionable.

There is also a company in Calif that does nothing but this, I am sure some of you have heard of them, glossycar. It seems they have no issues either.

A painting forum would probably be a better place for this discussion but I do not know of any.
 
Frank, My advanced 200 PTG tells me that most stock c6 vette paint jobs have 2/3 clear and 1/3 base, ect. That is if you are referring to your new vette. Which if I recall from pics has a few panels that are not stock. So YMMV....

So if you are referring to your vette and it will be a w/e car, I'd say go for it.

I'd love to wetsand my Denali 1500, but it is white and not sure its worth the effort
 
agentf1 said:
What are your thoughts on wet sanding factory paint? I know it can be done but you need to be very careful since factory cc is very thin yada yada yada.

What I am interested in discussing is... Do you think all the protection and/or UV protection is in the outer most layer?

I have talked to a few body men painters including my brother who is a painter for a living and he has also gone to a few classes and talked to a few paint reps and they all say that if you do not have to break the outer shell of the paint, hence, wet sand you should not do it because this outer layer has the most protection in it and the car will be more susceptible to bird bombs, acid rain etching and possibly even fading. Most will say if it is a garage queen or show car you are usually OK.

What are your thoughts?

I have done quite a few cars and have never had a problem or seen any type of cc failure due to this but do suspect that there is some truth to what the painters are saying.

Of course on repaints where the painter is expecting to cut the paint in order to provide a 100% smooth finish they usually lay down extra cc which is fine. It is the factory paint that is questionable.

There is also a company in Calif that does nothing but this, I am sure some of you have heard of them, glossycar. It seems they have no issues either.

A painting forum would probably be a better place for this discussion but I do not know of any.
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David Fermani has an interesting test going on right now. He sanded most of the factory clearcoat off of his hood, removing the UV protection. Then he coated half of the hood with the new Optimum Coating. The car will be outside for the next 3 years and the bare, sanded (put polished) hood will be exposed. We will see what happens.

I personally don't like the idea of sanding factory paint because it is very hard (compared to fresh paint) and often requires at least 1500 grit, sometimes 1000 to completely level.

With factory paint it is very easy to sand until it looks flat (no visible highs and lows) only to polish the paint and realize that there is still almost factory levels of orange peel.

So here are my thoughts. I don't like doing it for a couple of reasons.
1) The aformentioned loss of UV protection. While I will be watching David's test, the fact that factory paint is so thin to begin with makes me uneasy about taking off too much.

2) The amount of labor involved. Getting factor hard paint truly flat requires a lot of sanding, polishing, and resanding. It is very labor intensive.

3) If the car gets scratches or scuffed there may not be enough paint to remove. Same with swirls.

Can it be done? Sure. Is it good for the car? I guess if it was a show car that had zero chance of taking on damage and had very limited exposure it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Instead of going for concours flat, why not go for a reduction in orange peel. It is much easier (and keeps more paint on the car) to do a light sanding and polish it out while making a very noticeable improvement in the paint. Just don't wear away valuable paint chasing perfection.
 
Look at the service manual for virtually any modern car and you'll find a small section discussing paint care (usually a very small section). They all say basically the same thing - remove more than 0.5 mil of clear and a respray is recommended. On average that is 1/4 of the clear coat film, or a mere 5/10,000 inch. agentf1, as you've alluded to, when factory clear is shot, and while it's drying and curing, the UV inhibitors tend to rise to the top, so removing a relatively small percentage of clear removes a relatively large percentage of UV protection.

How much of a problem is this? How well do you maintain the finish? Are you using a quality wax/sealant on a very regular basis, or are you the "average consumer" who maybe waxes once a year. (Please understand this is rhetorical question, I'm not asking you, agentf1, if you're an "average consumer" - obviously you wouldn't be here if you were. :) ) Todd voiced a concern regarding future defect correction - if you remove a fair percentage of clear, how much wiggle room do you have left for future defect correction, even for what would normally be considered a minor problem?

I think the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.
 
th0001 said:

Instead of going for concours flat, why not go for a reduction in orange peel. It is much easier (and keeps more paint on the car) to do a light sanding and polish it out while making a very noticeable improvement in the paint. Just don't wear away valuable paint chasing perfection.
Click to expand...

This is all I was thinking about doing. I would never try to level it 100% since I feel that removes way too much cc. A quick once over with 3000 and then buff it back out and I think it looks 100% better. I also usually only do the real bad areas which is usually the rear quarters and doors on the vettes. Top of the cars are usually pretty nice since thay are layed out horizonally when they are painted on the line and the paint is able to flow better, the quarter panels, door and fenders are hung vertically to save space on the line so they have to be sprayed differently causing more OP. I think the rear bumper is probably hung vertically also since they tend to have peel on their face also. You would think now that vette production is down they would have more room on the assembly line and they would change their painting process and improve quality but no such luck.

Thanks for evetybodies advice. You all had good points.

Bryan, when you coming to Pennsylvania with that paint gauge? You can stay in the back bedroom and hang by the pool while I am detailing my cars. ;-) Unfortunately I cannot justify buying one for as few cars as I do a year or my personal cars. It is rare I get wet sanding jobs. Or a more accurate statement is it is rare I take them on since I hate tying my garage up for a few days and leaving my cars outside, at least full wet sanding jobs. I do plenty of partial wet sand jobs.
 
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