What a day: a tale of failure, dissatisfaction, and overly high expectations

Prometheus

Prometheus

Perfectionist in Rehab
So, yesterday i got all my stuff that i ordered from Meg's. Got some #9, #81, #16, and i previously had scratch x and all the foam pads and stuff i needed. So, this morning i set out, washed and clayed the car. Lets just say this is the first detail this car has ever seen (i got it in December, and we have snow here till about april half the time), and some spots look like somebody took a spiral notebook and drug it across the car. Anyways, i dont have a PC (too poor :( ) so i was hitting it with the Scratch X by hand. I was hoping most of the scratches would come out because none were that deep at all, so i was just rubbing it with a terry covered foam pad. Now, you gotta understand, i was using a decent amount of elbow grease and im no light weight (6'2 round 185 ish). I buffed it by hand (bout a foot and a half by a foot and a half section) for probably 5-7 min before the Scratch-x was basically dried up. Wiped it off with a clean Terry towel, and voila! Bubkis. I couldn't even hardly tell a difference.....



About 40 min later, after doing that section for another 20 min and moving on to another section (by this time about half the trunk lid is done) and i still cant hardly tell any difference. Needless to say im pretty pissed (still am as i only quit about 15 min ago). So finally i said screw it and moved on to some little scuffs on the lower part of the lid. Scratch X took those off no problem, but all the little scratches are still there. I saw Mike's pics of what he did with Scratch X on a cavvy, and im wondering what im doing different? At this point i almost feel like giving up casue im getting next to no results. I cant tell if Scratch X is taking off all the micromarring cause it is really cloudy today, but i hope it is. The scratches are just buggin the crap out of me. They arent deep, cant feel them with a finger nail, and almost all dont even hit the paint. There is one that i can tell is a little deeper, but still not to the primer. I finally got so mad i got out dad's old orbital buffer and put a terry bonnet and hit it with that for about 5 min. Still nothing. I was just hoping that the Scratch X would do more. I know if the X wont take it out, the #9 and #81 surely wont.



Any help i could get would be greatly appreciated, but i dont know if i can get them out as i have no access to a pc, so itll pretty much be by hand or that ancient orbital. Ill try and get some pics later, but its to cloudy out right now to get any good ones and its starting to rain. Thanks for your help.
 
I have no experience with scratchX, so I can't help there. The best advice I can give you would be to save up some money and buy a PC eventually. You may just have to live with the marring until you can get your hands on one. Removing marring by hand is quite hard. Very few people have great success by hand.



Bill.
 
I understand how you feel.I like Scratch X and have had some success with it.It works best if you have lets say one scratch versus an area of scratches to work with.With that said if I'm working on a scratch I'll hit it 4,5 or even 6 times before it dissappears and it does take some work and time.
 
Scratch X is kinda quirky. Sometimes the scratch comes right out, other times, on what appeat to me to be similiar scratches, Scratch X has done nothing. Go figure!
 
Prometheus- Well, the title of this thread sure got my attention! Yeah, it's frustrating to spend a lot of time and effort without getting the results you're after.



My experience has been that very few products *consistently* work well, for different people, when used by hand. There's always someone (think ScottWax) who gets great results, but that doesn't mean that other people will. And removing marring is usually tougher than people expect it to be.



Scratch-X and #9 are pretty mild products. #81 is nonabrasive.



If *I* were in your shoes, I'd get the 1Z polishes- Ultra/Extra, Paint Polish, and either Metallic Polish or WaxPolish Soft. These work well by hand, or rather, they work as well as anything, and they're far easier to use than most. I've also had good results 9by hand) with 3M's PI-III line, but IMO *nothing* beats the 1Z stuff for use by hand. I don't think *anyone* here has bought the 1Z polishes and then said that they were disappointed with their performance. You can top them with the #16, but it's not immediately necessary since the 1Z polishes leave wax behind. Which is a nice thing after a long day of polishing.
 
DO you have any photos you could post??



It could very well be that the scratches are too deep to remove by hand. The fact that you spent 20 mins working on one section suggests that they are deep. Odds are, maybe even too deep for a PC.



Before you spend more money, I would try to post some photos.



Dom
 
Prometheus, maybe we could arrange a Michigan detail day? Get a group together and detail, that way you would have access to a PC. I should be getting mine this weekend, I'd be willing to let you try it if we have a meet. Some defects are just to severe to get out by hand so dont be to discouraged.
 
I attacked a black Camry one day for a friend, whos daughter had taken a Scotchbrite scouring pad to it. When i went and looked at the car, i thought with all the products i have, and the PC, it shouldnt be a problem. So i set up an appt., under the impression i could remove at least 90% of the swirls and scratches. 3 hrs later, 3M SMR, VM, SSR2, DACP, and everything else i think i had, i used, and got about a 60% success rate. Sometimes you just cant get out what you think you can with what you have......However i did learn a aweful lot that day !!

heres the link
 
Dude, I really feel your pain. :(

I agree with Mr Accumulator. Go aggressive.

I think ScratchX is pretty mild. I vaguely

recall that it is about 4 on the abrasive scale.

Just some point of reference...

I attacked my paint with #80 speed glaze (class 4 abrasive)

two days ago with my PC (at warp 6).

I was trying to get rid of some swirls

that my spring polish did not remedy

(with 1Z MP). Man, I went at it for

a while. I did see some improvements.

But the more obvious swirls still mocked me.

(perhaps my technique sucks)



So, I am now using a newly learned technique from some

thread here.

I always examine my paint in the shade (preferably around

dusk). My paint always look awesome.

:xyxthumbs



PS: Unfortunately, getting 1Z MP/PP/UP will probably set you

back $50. I think you probably need them all to do some

of trials and errors.
 
I wish i had pics guys, but it is really cloudy today and its raining now, so i guess my detailing is done for the day. I emailed mike earlier, and he gave me some pointers, and i attacked it again, and got some results. None of the scratches were "removed" (at least that i could tell) but they were definately lightened. They are much harder to see, and from about 2 feet away you cant see them. You have to be within a foot and directly over the scratches to see them. They really aren't that deep, they arent even through the clear (at least that i can tell), but i spose im satisfied for what i achieved by hand. While by no means perfect, i spose its better than what i started out with... still kinda frustrated though.



I will try and get some photos the next nice day (dunno when thatll be, probably saturday or sunday, sposed to rain again tomorrow), and maybe you guys will know something better by then.



As for the MIchigan detail day, thats be AWESOME!! Id try to get down state, but no guarantees (I'm in Alpena, NE mi). I have been planning on getting a PC when i had the cash, but it might be a coupla months. Being a student and making minimum wage kinda sucks. Figure $200 for the PC and pads, at about $5 a hour, thats like 40 hours of work. Not bad, i could probably do that in about 3 weeks time. Ill have to see about that...



Im gonna keep at the scratch X (trunk lid isnt too bad now) and ill attack the roof next. Still havent gotten the #81 on top of the trunk yet (started to rain too soon), so well have to see how that fills some of em in. I dunno, ill have to wait and see... Ill post pics when i get some decent ones...
 
Prometheus I feel your pain bud. I struggled for years by hand with black vehicles and then I got a PC and life is so much easier. I would save and instead of buying more products I would by a PC.





AKA..Patrick do you have any after pics of that mess on the hood?
 
So it was finally nice out enough today to get some pics... maybe you guys will know something better for me to do after you see them. So, this pic is AFTER the Scratch X and some #9, but it still looks pretty nasty...



16146trunk_lid.jpg




Now, i cant tell much difference between this and how it was when i started...



This is from about 3 feet away, again after Scratch X (about 2 min later mind u)



16146trunk_ok.jpg




Farther away, it looks ok, but withing aobut 3 feet, it looks crappy. On a really sunny day, if you're within about 6 feet it looks pretty bad. Heres my hood, which i havent done yet, for comparison...



16146hood-med.jpg




Anyway, thats what i got. Any help would be greatly appreciated, but i just dont get why the Scratch X doesnt seem to be working... I really need some help. Thanks in advance.
 
ScratchX probably just isn't strong enough. I don't think it cuts any better than #9 does but it does a good job on paint transfers. You may need to go up to #80 Speed Glaze or #83 DACP which are the strongest polishes Meguiars makes that you can effectively use by hand. I don't think you are going to have much luck with that 'V' shaped scratch on the hood though.
 
I figured the v scratch was done for, prolly need to paint that one. I might have to end up getting some DACP, but can you use that effectively by hand? I had only heard of people using it by PC or rotary.... I might have to try that.
 
OK this is short notice but I am having a few people over this weekend for some detailing...you are more than welcome to come over if you would like. It is Sat. the 26th. Let me know if you want to come or not...the invite is open to anybody. I plan on buying a bunch of hamburgs and the likes. I have a Rotary, Cyclo, PC adn quite a few pads, polishes, ect. If you want you can feel free to use whatever I have.
 
Sweet, i would love to come, but i have ta work. thanks for the offer though scottabir... Ordinarily i would definately take you up on that. I'm in Alpena btw, a nice 4-4.5 hours from you. Thanks again for the offer, and sorry i cant come this time.



So today i was bored, so i put on some hand polish and some #16 over it, and the hand polish filled in some of the scratches, but in bright light you can still see them really well. When its cloudy or getting darker out its not so bad, but i guess theres nothing i can really do about it unless i get a PC (or use someone elses) or get something really agressive by hand. Oh well, i tried.



BTW, when i was wiping off the #16, it was leaving some wierd towel marks after all the residue was gone. Is this normal, or did i not wait long enough? My only other though is that maybe i didnt let the hand polish completely dry, but when i was wiping the towel over the polish it wasn't streaking anymore like it does when its wet... Oh well, it looks ok now. Just wondering if the streaking is normal.
 
maybe we can set-up a date in the future for everyone to get together.

I haven't tried #16 so I dont know about its wipe-off tricks. What kind of towel were you using to wipe it off with?
 
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