Wetsanding guru's come inside PLEASE.. 56k warning!

wifehatescar

wifehatescar

My L5-S1 is killing me!
I really need some help from those who have wetsanded out orange peel before. I met with some one today with a 1973 Mercedes that was repainted a couple years ago. As seen in the pictures it has bad orange peel, some spots worse than others, the hood actually isn't that bad.

I have never wetsanded an entire car before, my plan is to use 2000-2500 grit 3M wet/dry sandpaper and then work my way up, I have the following to use:
PC
rotary
all the SSR's
foam and yellow/blue Edge wool pad

I need to know how aggressive *YOU* would get with this paint. It is not clearcoated from my rubbing on SSR2 on the paint turning the towel a grey/black color. The paint job is terrible and while the owner does not need it perfect, he wants his money's worth out of me :) I just do not want to go too far on a repaint job.
Please help.....Dean/Anthony O/Nick.....or anyone else too ;)

Hood:
 
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You are right ... that looks terrible.
What you are seeing in many of those places is in fact not orange peel but paint that was applied improperly. It could be many things but it looks like the paint never flowed when applied to the car.
This creates a problem because you need to sand off a lot of paint to get it smooth. If you take off too much paint by sanding and then buffing you could end up seeing the primer that is under the finish coat.
Unless I had painted this car myself and knew how much paint was on it, I wouldn't take on the job.
Actually if I had painted it myself, I would have wet sanded the paint and sprayed on another coat.
The other problem is ... the car is black and as you know it will show every imperfection that is in the paint.
Just my opinion ... sorry :(
 
Interesting . Is the entire car in that condition ? I've never wet sanded but Aaron (The Edge) gave me a demo of what his wool pads can do to bring the polish back . I was pretty impressed at how fast wool pads with a rotory work paint thats been wet sanded.
 
I think if I took a good shot at the paint and told him this is the best I feel comfortable getting it, he would be ok with that. I hate to just flat turn the job down.

Again, he does not expect perfection, just an improvement.

The front 1/4 is the worst, hood is the best, in my opinion.
 
I forgot to mention I'll be doing only a small section on the car to test what grit/compounds will work. If after that he or I decide not to do the whole car, then that will be how it is.
I may just talk him into wool pad'ing the car (or at least only using 3000 grit an no finer). That seems safe to me......
I have no problem disappointing him a little bit and erroring on the side of safety---like I said he is aware sanding takes off paint and that I don't want to take off too much.
 
Yeah, I thought the hood looked pretty good too.
You might try one of the front 1/4s
My approach
wetsand with 2000 or 2500 ... make sure the paper soaks for 1/2 hour in the water ... use light pressure with the sand paper folded over in thirds (or you could use a backing pad) ... stay about 1/2 to 1 inch away from the edges.
Try SSR 2.5 first with a wool pad or a foam cutting pad (I have not used the edge wool pads yet so I cannot comment as to which wool pad of theirs to use) and the rotary.
If there is hazing, follow up with SSR 2 on a foam pad and the rotary or PC.
If you want a killer look as a last polish go over it with SSR 1 and a polishing pad on the PC set at max speed. It will really shine and remove any hazin or micromarring from the rotary.
Good luck!!!
 
wifehatescar

Horrible repaint !!!

First, Do you have a paint thickness guage? If you do not, carefully explain to the customer the chance that the paint will be cut through to the primer if it is thin.

Also, Follow kimwallace's advice !!!

Right on the money kim !!!

Second, Is this car a daily driver ??? Or is it a hopeful trophy car ???

If the latter is true, direct him to a very good paint shop, and tell him to expect to pay over $4k for his car to look showroom. If not take a chance with the wet sanding/compounding/polishing and we will see what we can be accomplish with no promises. But, if it comes out nice, demand a respectible $$$ for your effort.
 
I think I'm actually going to try part of the trunk lid first. It has a moderate amount of orange peel, is easily examined, flat so it can be buffed quickly as a test. Here IT is, you can see the peel in the white siding:
 
Kim-
That sounds like my original plan too.

Dean-
The car is a "toy" for his wife but not a show car. He was scratching at the paint with his nail so I don't think he is super picky. He is (and will be told again) aware that there is risk and I will not take too much risk in improving the car. I'd rather he have a frown on his face because there is still orange peel than me with a frown going through the paint.

He thinks there is "too much paint on the car".......if that IS the case, it should be safer for me but I dunno. No I don't have a paint thickness guage.

My backup plan is to refuse to wetsand but compound it a bit to improve it the best I can.
 
Steve
You will be fine with the 2000 grit. If you are a little nervous meguires has some great 3000 grit. Do your test area in the worst possible place on the car dont be to aggresive New paper will cut the paint fast. You will get the best results when you use a foam sanding block. I have a five gal. bucket of water with a little soap for lube in the water. Just keep the paint weet. When your sanding and you hear something grity on the paper its probably dirt. Stop and rinse the paper and your panel. This grit will put deaper scratches then you want. Your goal is to flatten the paint as much as possible. Make a few pases with the paper then stop. Wipe off the water and inspect. The high spots will be dull and your lows will still have gloss. Your goal is to have all the gloss gone. If you get the job take it slow.On the large areas only sand in one direction and make long strokes front to back. Use the block on all flat areas when you use your hand move side to side so you dont put finger marks in the paint. it will look wavey when you polish.
For polish I have not used any of the products you listed. I always have used 3ms. Fines It polishing glaze. Dont let the word glaze fool you it cuts. It comes in White for light colored finshes and dark for dark finshes. I will wool pad first them foam pad light cut and one more time with final finish pad all using the same product.
Some one else can probably give you some good recommendations for other products.
Good Luck

Ron

Rons Dents & Details
 
ron's-

That was a great description, thanks! Roughly how many swipes with 2000 grit, for example, is a reasonable amount before you would stop for fear of cutting too much? Does the orange peel in the pictures look manageable or is it really bad?

Also, in the 3rd pic, does anyone know what the "lines" or wrinkles in the paint are???? That's what worries me most actually.

freedre-
if I do the car and it comes out ok I will def have pics to show!
 
One more thing too...anyone have rough guess as to how long this car will take doing it myself if I do wetsand? I'm thinking 15 hrs assuming I go fairly slow (that includes a couple hrs for interior carpet stuff and exterior chrome, etc).
 
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Steve
With the fresh paper make two to three passes stop and check the paint. Your orange peel will have to be your guage. Here is a neet trick when you do your test area take a tape measure or ruler put it up to the paint try to see how far in the reflection you can read. Eaxmple Mr. jones When we started your paint only had 2" of clarity and now you dave 8". You want to see how many inches you can read back.
Dont be to aggresive take your time and have fun. When you finish you will feal like you just moved to the next level and just left every one behind. Until the next problem comes up then you will be back down here with us Ha Ha.
The lines look like prevous cracks in the paint that were painted over. Or maby bad prep work?

Good Luck

Ron

Rons Dents & Details
 
I have done alot of wetsanding recently. You WILL be fine using either 2k or 2500 sandpaper. You should go to your local body shop and pick up a soft rubber/foam sanding block, it will really help make the results smoother and more even. Some other tips would be, Use very little pressure, just let the paper slowly work away at the finish. I personally like to keep a hose lightly streaming water over the area that i am sanding, it reduces the risk of any large pieces of contamination being dragged through the paint by the paper. Make sure that the edges of the paper are folded up around the block, they can really cut in and do some damage!

Those lines look to be from bad flow from the paint gun. It was a pretty bad job, all of the orange peel is from too much air, and not enough flow, and the lines are from too little air and too much flow :(

Painting is really simple, if you work for a paint shop, you should at least know how to use the gun, and not create problems like this! I bet it was painted at Maaco

Good luck with the car, Hopefully it will be a Good, not bad learning experience!
 
wifehatescar

If your going to go through the wet sanding process...Would you consider doing a through write up along with pictures of the entire process? If necesarry I can host the pictures/Information for you on one of my servers. I think this would be great being that your new to wet sanding as well. I think it would be encouraging to see a whole detailed process from prep to shine!

Thanks
Nick
 
Guys,
Thanks for all the tips so far, I appreciate it! If/when I do the car I'll definately make a post with pictures. Anyone have a guess as to the # of hours it will take me?

ron's-
when you say 2-3 passes, do you mean move the paper just forward once back once and then forward again? Or does each pass have a couple minutes of rubbing the sandpaper on each section (moving the paper back and forth a couple dozen times per pass)?
 
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