wetsanding: clearcoat paint?

C

cabe

New member
i have an older ('91) car and it's (horribly) evident that the previous owner has had it repained. i would like the car repainted to a basic black, and would like to get rid of the OP after the repaint.



should i have clear sprayed onto the car if i'm looking to do this? i can understand the necessity of clear on top of metallic and pearl paints, but does it offer any significant advantages for black? i can't see black fading like a red/yellow etc..
 
on base coat/clearcoat paint finishes, the clearcoat is what makes the paint glossy. Without it, the paint would be a flat lifeless color. single stage paints have the clearcoat and the basecoat mixed. they're glossy with just one layer.



Orange peel is a very touchy subject. Even if you have 5 layers of clearcoat on the car, and the paint has orange peel, if the first layer of clearcoat is the culprit of the texture, your going to have to remove all of the clearcoat to get rid of it. Because you don't know where in the paint the peel is comming from I would really try to stay away from trying to correct OP. The best way to not have peel is to find a shop that is good with a paint gun.
 
in that case, in the interest of preserving the paint, should i just get a single stage black? (i've heard it's safer to remove OP from single stage as opposed to clear coat) are there any significant disadvantages to single stage as opposed to clearcoat?



thanks!



[edit]

would single stage be significantly easier to work with when repairing chips in the future? that could also be a consideration..
 
repairing OP on single stage is just a touchy as with a dual stage paint setup. If you have a few layers of paint and the orange peel is from one of the first layers, your going to have to remove nearly all the paint on the car to correct it. OP isn't really that big of a deal, from more than a few feet away, your not going to notice it anyways.



Though I haven't done touchup work on a SS paint, I would assume that SS touchup paint would cost more than a dual coat considering that instead of buying two products, you only have to buy one. Manufacturers want to make up for you buying one product instead of two so they would increase the price.
 
Neothin said:
The best way to not have peel is to find a shop that is good with a paint gun.
Click to expand...



Yeah, that's the truth. If you don't want OP find a painter who can lay it down smooth in the first place and who can also wetsand/etc. it so that it's just the way it ougtha be with reagard to looks, thickness, and all the other things that oughta be considered. Let the shop do the work and expect to pay for it.



Regarding the b/c vs. ss thing:



There are a lot of differences between b/c and ss, and also between the different types of ss.



If you want a drop-dead-incredible black, go with black ss lacquer. Assuming it's sprayed right, you can get this perfectly smooth, no OP. And it looks like nothing else. It's also sorta soft/fragile.



Most other ss paint is sorta the cheap way to repaint and usually looks it. Black ss enamel often looks crappy and some enamels do not take kindly to abrasive processes like wetsanding. Don't expect this kind of paintjob to look very good (this is the MAACO/Earl Sheib kind of approach), though a good painter can still make it turn out fine. But most good painters would steer you in another direction anyhow.



Yeah, ss is easier to touch up.



Most people would be be better off to get some good b/c. Note that there different brands have different characteristics and that some painters do better with certain brands of paint than with others.
 
Accumulator said:
Yeah, that's the truth. If you don't want OP find a painter who can lay it down smooth in the first place and who can also wetsand/etc. it so that it's just the way it ougtha be with reagard to looks, thickness, and all the other things that oughta be considered. Let the shop do the work and expect to pay for it.



Regarding the b/c vs. ss thing:



There are a lot of differences between b/c and ss, and also between the different types of ss.



If you want a drop-dead-incredible black, go with black ss lacquer. Assuming it's sprayed right, you can get this perfectly smooth, no OP. And it looks like nothing else. It's also sorta soft/fragile.



Most other ss paint is sorta the cheap way to repaint and usually looks it. Black ss enamel often looks crappy and some enamels do not take kindly to abrasive processes like wetsanding. Don't expect this kind of paintjob to look very good (this is the MAACO/Earl Sheib kind of approach), though a good painter can still make it turn out fine. But most good painters would steer you in another direction anyhow.



Yeah, ss is easier to touch up.



Most people would be be better off to get some good b/c. Note that there different brands have different characteristics and that some painters do better with certain brands of paint than with others.
Click to expand...



I prefer SS black for another reason. If scratched a CC over black base stands out like a white scar. The light gets a chance to get behind the scratch and that just makes it more prominent than on a SS black. Swirls and scratches are much less noticeable with SS paint.



I also find SS black to be a bit softer than CC black and that means it is much easier to de-swirl the paint. This is only what I have observed through my experience and I have no facts to support this statement.



I have also noticed that SS black is pure black and many of the CC's blacks are either bluish or brownish tinged. Again this represents only what I have experienced and may not be universally true.



I believe both paints systems, SS or CC will hold up as well as one another.



Given a choice for solid colors like white, red or black, I'd choose SS.
 
Accumulator said:
Yeah, that's the truth. If you don't want OP find a painter who can lay it down smooth in the first place and who can also wetsand/etc. it so that it's just the way it ougtha be with reagard to looks, thickness, and all the other things that oughta be considered. Let the shop do the work and expect to pay for it.



Regarding the b/c vs. ss thing:



There are a lot of differences between b/c and ss, and also between the different types of ss.



If you want a drop-dead-incredible black, go with black ss lacquer. Assuming it's sprayed right, you can get this perfectly smooth, no OP. And it looks like nothing else. It's also sorta soft/fragile.



Most other ss paint is sorta the cheap way to repaint and usually looks it. Black ss enamel often looks crappy and some enamels do not take kindly to abrasive processes like wetsanding. Don't expect this kind of paintjob to look very good (this is the MAACO/Earl Sheib kind of approach), though a good painter can still make it turn out fine. But most good painters would steer you in another direction anyhow.



Yeah, ss is easier to touch up.



Most people would be be better off to get some good b/c. Note that there different brands have different characteristics and that some painters do better with certain brands of paint than with others.
Click to expand...



I prefer SS black for another reason. If scratched a CC over black base stands out like a white scar. The light gets a chance to get behind the scratch and that just makes it more prominent than on a SS black. Swirls and scratches are much less noticeable with SS paint.



I have also noticed that SS black is pure black and many of the CC's blacks are either bluish or brownish tinged. Again this represents only what I have experienced and may not be universally true.



Given a choice for solid colors like white, red or black, I'd choose SS.
 
Hope this doesn't sound contrary to what I posted earlier, I still think Cabe's more likely to be happy with a good b/c job.



I sure agree about flaws being less noticeable on ss and about how it generally looks better (at least in some colors). Well, that last bit will be a matter of personal preference but I myself generally prefer the look of ss (I currently have 2 cars with factory ss metallic, it's a cool type of paint). Yeah, I *really* like ss, but only *high quality* ss- it has that depth that I just don't see with b/c. Heh heh, I bust my friends in the Jag club about redoing their cars in b/c because I think they'd look so much nicer in ss :D I even suggested that they oughta lose concours points for using b/c, which wasn't a very popular idea!



But cheap black enamel usually just looks crappy. Sorta looks like the worst of both worlds. That's what I'm worried about Cabe ending up with.



ss black is *soft* compared to almost any clear, which is good and bad ;) ss white can be so hard that you basically can't correct it, yet not hard enough to not get marred in the first place. Because of this, I prefer b/c for white.
 
jfelbab-



i see that you're a fellow MR2 owner! here is the car in question, regarding the b/c vs ss:

http://home.carolina.rr.com/softwarectlg2k2/mr2/





accumulator-



black ss lacquer sounds really nice, but the car is a daily driver so if it is soft/fragile i'm afraid that i can't go that route :(



i wouldn't be opposed to paying a little more for a quality ss if it offers the same durability as bc/cc, yet a better look. (i'm under the impression that the increased cost of a good ss over a cheap ss is insignificant next to the total price of the job with labor)



[edit]

i'll have to find out what the '06 BMWs are being painted with.. i saw a black '06 bmw in a parking lot and just had to stop and stare at that black! :woot2:
 
cabe said:
jfelbab-



i see that you're a fellow MR2 owner! here is the car in question, regarding the b/c vs ss:

http://home.carolina.rr.com/softwarectlg2k2/mr2/





accumulator-



black ss lacquer sounds really nice, but the car is a daily driver so if it is soft/fragile i'm afraid that i can't go that route :(



i wouldn't be opposed to paying a little more for a quality ss if it offers the same durability as bc/cc, yet a better look. (i'm under the impression that the increased cost of a good ss over a cheap ss is insignificant next to the total price of the job with labor)



[edit]

i'll have to find out what the '06 BMWs are being painted with.. i saw a black '06 bmw in a parking lot and just had to stop and stare at that black! :woot2:
Click to expand...



I have to tell you Cabe, that I know a guy who bought the first 91 MR2 Turbo he could get in Milwaukee. It was white and he had it repainted black before he picked it up. It took them 2 months to paint it. They basically had to take it all apart, repaint it then reassemble it. They did everything perfectly. Now the car looked great and just like the factory black he wouldn't/couldn't wait for. It cost him $5,000 plus in 1991. Then there was the problem that every chip he got in it exposed the white undercoat. If you want to go black you probably should consider what it will look like in a year of daily driving. You might look into the clear bra for sure.



White SS paint is very hard. It uses titanium dioxide for it's pigment. It can be really hard to work out swirls but they are not very noticeable in white anyway. Black is another matter. It is a softer paint and gets swirls from looking at it cross-eyed. Frankly, unless you are planning on making this a garage queen, I'd suggest you remove all the old paint by plastic bead blasting or chemically, re-seal and prime and spray it with a top quality black from Sikkens or my favorite PPG. This is going to cost a lot of money. Not to talk you out of black but have you considered building on your existing white base with a candy tinted clear or pearlescent finish? that would probably cost a lot less and still be unique and stunning.



Nice looking 2 BTW. Where is your spare? ;)



Here is my gallery. Yes, it's SS Super Red.
 
jfelbab said:
.. I know a guy who ..had it repainted black... It took them 2 months to paint it. They basically had to take it all apart, repaint it then reassemble it...
Click to expand...



Yeah, consider that a proper repaint means the car will come apart- glass out, bumper covers off, etc. And, if only to prevent the chips/show-through that jfelbab mentioned, they really oughta remove the paint that's already on there. Repainting a car is a big job, especially when you do a color change.
 
i'm on the 'college budget' so a repaint of that magnitude isn't an option, but i do have experience with making paint look smooth as glass! i have been planning to do my door jambs and other crevices with duplicolor. with proper prep work and application i don't see a reason that the paint would come off, which is all i'm concerned about since the paint in door jambs (which are practically inside the car and not exposed to the elements) and other crevices are barely noticible.



i also plan on doing the prep work for the car to cut down a bit on the cost of the repaint. the most chip-prone parts (front/rear bumper, side skirts) will be replaced with aftermarket pieces, so having the white show through chips won't be much of a concern.



single stage definitly has an appeal since it seems chips will be easier to repair -- i will just have to find myself a quality single stage!
 
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