Wet sanding gone horribly wrong!

xtremekustomz said:
It will be hard to say the cost of the re-paint. Different locations charge different prices. Here, for a total repaint, not including a thorough buffing, just removing any trash that may get in it, I would say probably around $800-$1000 Of course blending the panels would be cheaper, but if as you have already realized, the clear and paint aren't very thick so why not just do an all over and not run the risk of burning through again? When you go talk to someone about it, tell them what you are expecting it to look like when they are done. If they can't do it the way you want, take it somewhere else. Another thing you can try is going by the shop and talking to them about it, and just say something like, "I don't know much about paint work but I guess you just tape off all the moulding and door handles and spray it?" and see what their reply is. What you want them to say is, "No, we take the door handles off and remove all moulding and anything else that needs to be removed" As for being a ***** about it, you should be. You are spending your hard earned money on it. Also find out if they are recommended by insurance companies. I'll be honest with you, you usually get a pretty good job done if you take it to a dealership to get it done. Everything has to be right when it leaves the shop, or I know it is around here. I wish you lived down here, I know a few people that would do you right.





Thanks for the input. When you say "total repaint," are you talking about the entire car? I doubt it as $800 seems cheap for that kind of work. I work for an insurance company and plan to talk to our claims adjusters in my area about who does good work.



Where are you located at?



Thanks!
 
$800 would get an overall job here in Alabama. Down here where I live anyway. Like I said, different locations charge different prices. And when I said total repaint, I meant an all over job. You may actually get by cheaper if you get them to just repaint the spots that you need and do an overall re-clear on it.
 
Wow! $800 to paint a car? It's almost worth the 13 hours drive from Chicago :)



I've got 5 places I'm going to see tomorrow about this. I talked to my neighbor who works as a service manager at a dealership and he gave me a few more suggestions.



Stay tuned---I'll be back with estimates.



Shumax
 
shumax said:
Thanks for the input. When you say "total repaint," are you talking about the entire car? I doubt it as $800 seems cheap for that kind of work. I work for an insurance company and plan to talk to our claims adjusters in my area about who does good work.



Where are you located at?



Thanks!



I'm an Appraiser for Travelers Insurance and I figured it's less than $450 each side if you are refinishing 2 panels at a body rate of $40 and paint materials rate of $22. That includes removing all trim from each panel and repairing each damaged area. Anything more than that, they're ripping you off. It's kinda hard to see the full extent of the damage with those pictures. Do you have any more you can post? BTW a complete repaint of the whole vehicle would be several $1000's.
 
David Fermani -- thanks! I work for a large regional insurance carrier on the sales side. I'm waiting to hear back from a few of my adjusters that are local.



Here are some more shots. Keep in mind they don't really do it any justice as I've polished the area a bit to get the wet sanding marks out -- though, I see I didn't do a great job as I see maring and some swirls :shocked Bastards -- it's the least of my worries right now:bat



If you want more, let me know of what and how. Thanks!



Passengers side door far and then close. Keep in mind it's not just that primer spot -- the area is very low relative to the rest, so it catches your eye. You'd have to fill an area about the size of a quarter around it to get it "level" with the rest of the paint / clear:

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Drivers rear fender---the paint is just VERY, VERY thin here -- see the faint black area in the "0" of the S0-2 tires:

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I know I checked with the local Chevrolet dealership that probably has the best painter in the state, and they told me it would be $1600 to repaint my fullsize extended cab truck back white including door jambs, inner fenders, and under side of hood. It would be $2000 if I wanted to go pearl white all over. Another shop quoted me $1500 to repaint the same color and $2000 if I wanted to change color. I had another shop quote me a price that was about the same with a color sand and buff and it was around $3000 for solid and $3500 with some artwork. Like I said, it really depends on where you are at as far as the price goes. I just know that the 3 shops I talked to are very reputable.



This is a guy that I know that got his done and I think it was around $4000 but there was alot of artwork.



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This is my truck that I did a few weeks ago.

http://autopia.org/forum/click-brag/88235-look.html
 
shumax said:
David Fermani -- thanks! I work for a large regional insurance carrier on the sales side. I'm waiting to hear back from a few of my adjusters that are local.



Here are some more shots. Keep in mind they don't really do it any justice as I've polished the area a bit to get the wet sanding marks out -- though, I see I didn't do a great job as I see maring and some swirls :shocked Bastards -- it's the least of my worries right now:bat



If you want more, let me know of what and how. Thanks!



Passengers side door far and then close. Keep in mind it's not just that primer spot -- the area is very low relative to the rest, so it catches your eye. You'd have to fill an area about the size of a quarter around it to get it "level" with the rest of the paint / clear:



I used to work out of our regional office in Naperville. I'm actually planning on going to the sales side soon(small world). Those pictures helped out! For the passenger side, the door damage will require blending into the 1/4. For the the driver's side 1/4 damage, it seems to be centrally located in the panel and could be blended within the panel. The total for both sides is about $725. Ask your adjusters wht shop they recommend. They might have a shop that owes them a couple favors that do good work. Good luck.
 
Thanks! You know, $725 is a lot of money. You know what bothers me even more? I've seen many, MANY jobs where the clear starts to chip / peel from under the trim, or on seams where the fender meets the bumper after 1-2 years. My company vehicle had some work done and the lip in the rear fender has the clear coating peeling a bit on it already after a year. Now, I'll give you I won't drive the S2000 in even the rain, nevermind the snow / salt.



The money is one issue, but the fact I've never had a good experience with this work is what bothers me the very most. I wish I knew what to say / look out for / safeguard myself against so that I could be 100% sure I wouldn't be dealing with chipping / peeling in 2 years of the clear they put down. Honestly, that bums me out more than forking over $725.



Thoughts?
 
I'm sure one of the adjusters in your area will have an idea who does the best work. Take it to the most reputable shop in town and they'll give you a lifetime warranty on their work. The key is removing all trim on the panel getting painted. If not, it's a recipe for failure.
 
You don't happen to remember White Eagle Auto Body in Naperville do you? Right off of 59 and I think New York St?



I'm thinking about them....thoughts?
 
Here are the three estimates I got today. I few observations:



All three shops said they would pull trim, outside rear view mirrors, door handles, etc. They all offered that on their own---I didn’t ask them to do it.

They all offer a lifetime guarantee on their work.

They all said they would lower the bumper and remove taillights so they could blend.

They all didn’t believe it was single stage paint, but looked it up and then agreed.



I’ll categorize estimates this way:



Most expensive = A $1,096

Middle = B $1,039

Second Middle = C $888

Verbal = D $1,000

Least = E $778



Issues I see:



Shop A is giving me a slight discount on the labor. They also are going to clear down the entire rocker panel on the drivers side instead of terminating at the picture I have attached --- picture one, the VERTICAL joint. I like that better because it’s less likely to peel later on down the road, or am I wrong / cazy? They’ll go all the way up to the seam in the panel of the pic I have attached – second pic. They will blend the passengers door into the rear passengers quarter. The drivers side rear quarter didn’t need to be blended, they said. Shop D said the same. Shops B, C, & E said they would just paint and clear the damaged panels – no need to blend.



B, C & E are also factoring in taking care of a very small dent that was already in the drivers rear panel that has to be repaired – not even the size of a nickle. I *think* shop A is factoring that, too – I need to check to be certain.



All the shops, except shop A, told me they would not repaint single stage. They all said it would be base coat and then clear. They all assured me that it would match just fine given the fact the paint is in such great shape ---6,000 miles on the car. Shop A said they could paint single stage, but it would be more $ and they couldn’t guarantee a perfect match. Not sure how true that is, or if they just don’t want to do that kind of work? Any thoughts, or am I making more out of it then I should?





So, my initial thoughts? Shop B is out. The shop was “tired,� not interested in my or the car --- they looked at me as a “number.� No thanks. Shop A I liked because the guy talked to me, appreciated the car and really listened to my concerns with the potential for peeling clear coat, etc. They were also the ones who said they would clear down the entire rocker panel and terminate at the seam in picture two. Shop B, C, D and E said they’d terminate at the joint in picture one. Shop D is probably out because he talked to me like I was an idiot and was wrong about the paint. Also, he wasn’t real interested in the work – I could tell.



Shop A is more of a production facility that I am told does nice work. I work in the insurance business and my local claims adjusters say they do nice work. That said, my company is quoting their insurance policy now. I met the owner a few weeks ago and when I asked to see him today, they wouldn’t let me unless I had an appointment. I won’t let work intermingle with personal here one bit. However, I was taken back that even after I announced myself as being here before on business, they wouldn’t let me talk to him. Big deal? Not the end of the world, but I’d like the owner to know I thought enough of him to give him my personal business. I couldn’t care less if he moves his policy to my company --- that’s not why I was there. Anyway….I didn’t like that aspect, but I did like the service writer who I am sure is trained to make the customer feel “special.â€�



Shop C & E were local shops. Not as fancy, but in the case of shop C, he does have a down draft booth and said he’d bake the paint. I liked this guy�had a 30min. conversation with him. Said he’s been doing it for 36 years – works on a few local Vipers, etc. Said those guys are so particular that he personally goes over them before releasing the car. Also mentioned that he's very particular himself. The one thing I don’t like is that he wants to terminate the clear coat at the joint in picture one. I bet I could ask him to go to the joint and pay a bit more? Shop E is very similar to what I just described about shop C -- local shop. I didn’t have as good of a conversation with him, but it wasn’t bad either.



I don’t want to say money is no object here. It is; however, basically $800 at one spot and $1,100 at another isn’t enough spread for me really to care about. I'd prefer that I get the best job possible.



I like that all have a lifetime warranty. I like the idea of terminating the clear coat at the spot in picture two. I realize that with a warranty, I need not worry about it --- if it chips / peels, I can bring it back. That said, I’d rather not deal / worry about it. So, am I making a bigger deal than I need to about where they terminate the clear coat on the driver rear fender -- picture one or two?



I’ve rambled a bit here and I thank you all for letting me do that. I’d appreciate any input / suggestions you might have. Have I missed anything that I should be asking? Oh, most say 3-5 days to do the work. I don't care about that as it's not a daily driver.



Thanks!

Shumax



Pics of the joints where the clear coat would terminate on the driver side. Picture one is where most want to terminate -- the VERTICAL joint. Picture two is the joint at the front fender and where I think it would be better to break the clear coat.



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Here are the estimates --note that shop D & E's estimates are not attached:



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shumax said:
Anyone have any thoughts?



After seeing picutes of the tiny little spot above your door handle, I say touch it up yourself.....It's so small it's not worth repainting the whole door for, imo.......



Unless money is no object.....do a little repair and see how it tuns out......



Good luck......:xyxthumbs
 
I done exactly the same on my Lexus, 2 years ago - an absolute pig ! There were two little stone chips on the driver's door, and I thought I'd touch 'em in, and rub 'em back myself. Bad Move !! Two horrible marks left where I had rubbed back to the primer. :eek:



I called out a mobile sprayer who was able to mix the paint in the van, on his machine. He then masked off the areas not required, and done an amazing job off rubbing back a larger area where the marks were, and then sprayed it back up to level out, and rubbed back again before using the buffer to bring the life back to the paint. You couldn't even tell it had been done.



So my thoughts are -



Why can't you ask a mobile sprayer / spraying shop to supply you with the mixed paint (which would be a whole lot smaller than you would need to buy in the "shops") ? And then mask off the areas you only need to spray, ie. mask off the "upper area" panel off the door, and then do the rubbing back and spraying yourself.



It's entirely your shout, but I kinda agree with a few off the others on here who are saying "what have you got to lose ?"



But hey, it's not MY pride and joy and I can also understand why you'd just like to get it "over and done with" by a pro ;)
 
First of all, how is the other paint on the car? I mean...how many times did you rub over the spots before they went into the primer? Really the thing you need to think about right now is if you are planning on doing any color sanding or compounding to the rest of the car, will it burn through too? If it were me I would just get them to touch up the spots where you went to the primer and re-clear the whole car. That way you know you have extra material on there to work with. It would really suck to get that part fixed and then burn through another spot on the car and be back in the same situation. And as for the different places you went to, usually getting a car sprayed in single stage is cheaper that base/clear. The paint is cheaper and you do it all in one step. Spraying base/clear is alot easier than single stage IMO. Single stage is a little harder to get the shine of a clearcoat. Basically single stage is good for a cheap job or if you plan on color sanding and buffing alot (single color only though, you can't do it with metallic). Alot of hotrods and show cars are done this way.
 
shumax said:
Anyone have any thoughts?



I looked at the estimates and I have a couple of issues:



*I wonder why there's such a variance in labor rates between shops? Maybe because it's not an insurance claim? $26 and $28 per hour for materials is kinda high compared to what I pay here in Florida ($22) for the same paint!!

*I really don't think a burn through to primer constitutes any more than 1 hour of repair time on each spot. 1 shop is estimating 3 hrs?? That's a little off.

Cover Car, Color Tint and Corrosion Protection are little "gimmick" charges that shops try to push on to the customer and in my opinion shouldn't get paid above and beyond their normal paint supply charge estimated at per hour. These items are similar to dealerships charging for shop supplies. As an appraiser, I argue that it's a cost of doing business.

*The break line on the rocker is an allowable break point for them to stop the refinishing at according to all paint manufacturers. Clearing of the entire rocker isn't needed.

*Do yourself and your car a favor and don't repaint with single stage. The car comes with clear and you shouldn't deviate from it. Alot of shops will actually paint SS cars with BC/CC these days. Don't go the other way, the paint will look different. A cleared finish looks different and actually not as good a SS, but don't mix and match.



These are just my opinions and I'm not the one painting your car. If I was adjusting the claim, I would negotiate these differences with the shop. I wouldn't expect you to do it.
 
Thanks for all of the replies, folks. I took it to two shops that do the spot airbrushing. They looked at the car and said it's in such awesome shape that they wouldn't want to do that kind of work on it. They said it'd look good on a daily driver, but not good enough for this car. I think I agree. It's a garage queen.



The single stage I have come to find out is wrong. It's actually base coat and clear coat, but the clear has a red tint in it. So, all the shops saying they would do base and clear only (no SS), were right. So that concern is off the table -- base and clear will be perfect.



Breaking on that spot on the rocker bothers me still. Just nervous about prior run-ins with chipping / peeling clear coat. Say what you will, but that's just me. I probably should get over it.



David Fermain--- I think you are referring to the first quote, which was the most expensive when you referrence some of those odd charges -- masking, corrosion protection, etc. I agree with you on that. I also don't think I'll be using them now as they didn't call me back when they said they would. In terms of the labor / paint rates--- I can't comment on that other than to say it's consistent across the board. Probably just a "Chicago-land" thing? Not sure...



I'm now leaning to the local guy in my town that had the estimate of $888. I'm thinking I'm going to ask him if I can see his work on those Vipers he worked on. Over the top? Maybe to you, but this is my pride and joy, so I want to be assured he isn't blowing wind up my A $ $.



Finally, concerning doing the work myself--- paint is around $125. I can probably get it cheeper if I buy smaller from a local, mobile, firm. Maybe $75. The airbrush, supplies, etc. are close to $125. I'd have almost $200 in it and no real guarantee it'd look perfect. That's almost 25% of the cost of the estimate I am leaning towards. Normally, I'd bite to save 75%, but it's a garage queen and I really want it to be perfect. If it were a daily driver, I wouldn't even be asking -- I'd of already performed the repair.



Thanks again, everyone!
 
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