Well there goes all my dealer work. Retail too. May be closing up shop soon.

JPostal said:
... DrivePur could work too but a little more labor intensive and higher cost per treatment. The beauty is you may not sell many deals, but you are putting your company name in front of thousands of people.



What do you think?



That's a great idea; I think. The DrivePur requires an interior detail (It's got to be clean for it to work as advertised). My local paper has something called Slurge. Gonna see if I can offer just the DrivePur and then educate the customer that it requires that the interior be detailed.



Or do you think that's a bit like bait and switch or just an add-on?
 
LeMarque said:
That's a great idea; I think. The DrivePur requires an interior detail (It's got to be clean for it to work as advertised). My local paper has something called Slurge. Gonna see if I can offer just the DrivePur and then educate the customer that it requires that the interior be detailed.



Or do you think that's a bit like bait and switch or just an add-on?



I think that would be a recipe for upset customers. Once they buy the deal they are stuck with it. A lot of people would be upset to find out they can't use the coupon without spending a lot more money.



I think these deal sites need to find a way to make it worthwhile to businesses that simply can't operate at 25% of the regular price. Their cut is just way too big on large ticket items like details. If they allowed us to offer the deal at a 25% discount then only took 5%-10% it would probably work out better for everyone. Example: Regular price exterior detail at $100 could be bought at $75. The deal site could take $10, leaving $65 dollars to the detailer.



I'm not sure how these sites think they deserve the same cut as the company doing hours of physical labor. When a restaurant runs a deal for a $25 certificate for $12, the site makes $6. The deal will bring in people who will likely spend more than the certificate so they really don't lose out since 25% should at least cover the cost. Eventually people learn the lesson that so many here have mentioned and these sites will have to realize that 10% of $100 is far better than 100% of $0.
 
LeMarque said:
That's a great idea; I think. The DrivePur requires an interior detail (It's got to be clean for it to work as advertised). My local paper has something called Slurge. Gonna see if I can offer just the DrivePur and then educate the customer that it requires that the interior be detailed.



Or do you think that's a bit like bait and switch or just an add-on?



I dont think its bait and switch. The customer can clean the car on their own before bringing it in for treatment (or use a groupon from another shop!) and then bring it in. If they prefer you to clean it then there is an additional fee. No different than buying a $10 groupon for a restaurant...they know your going to drop $50 on your meal, the first $10 is discounted and the next $40 is full pop.



I'm sending you a PM LeMarque...I am about to buy the drivepur setup. Want to make sure it works!
 
I think Groupon is starting to change their policy. I'm not sure if GetMad detailing has been advertising in other areas too, but they have run a bunch of deals in Western Canada selling full details for $89. The funny thing is they dont even detail and they claim to be all across North America...they just sell the details and then sub contract the work to local detailers and pay them $70 per detail. Either they are taking a loss every detail (which I doubt) or they have negotiated a deal with Groupon to significantly reduce the split.



Take a look...I want to wet willy this guy. - M.A.D. - Mobile Auto Detailing - Home



The guy I know that sub contracted with them does not have insurance, does not carry water to the site, does not use eco friendly products, and does not have a water re-claim mat, contrary to the sites "Company Info" page.



Nth Degree said:
I think that would be a recipe for upset customers. Once they buy the deal they are stuck with it. A lot of people would be upset to find out they can't use the coupon without spending a lot more money.



I think these deal sites need to find a way to make it worthwhile to businesses that simply can't operate at 25% of the regular price. Their cut is just way too big on large ticket items like details. If they allowed us to offer the deal at a 25% discount then only took 5%-10% it would probably work out better for everyone. Example: Regular price exterior detail at $100 could be bought at $75. The deal site could take $10, leaving $65 dollars to the detailer.



I'm not sure how these sites think they deserve the same cut as the company doing hours of physical labor. When a restaurant runs a deal for a $25 certificate for $12, the site makes $6. The deal will bring in people who will likely spend more than the certificate so they really don't lose out since 25% should at least cover the cost. Eventually people learn the lesson that so many here have mentioned and these sites will have to realize that 10% of $100 is far better than 100% of $0.
 
JPostal said:
I think Groupon is starting to change their policy. I'm not sure if GetMad detailing has been advertising in other areas too, but they have run a bunch of deals in Western Canada selling full details for $89. The funny thing is they dont even detail and they claim to be all across North America...they just sell the details and then sub contract the work to local detailers and pay them $70 per detail. Either they are taking a loss every detail (which I doubt) or they have negotiated a deal with Groupon to significantly reduce the split.



Take a look...I want to wet willy this guy. - M.A.D. - Mobile Auto Detailing - Home



The guy I know that sub contracted with them does not have insurance, does not carry water to the site, does not use eco friendly products, and does not have a water re-claim mat, contrary to the sites "Company Info" page.



I think it's symptomatic of one of the traditional problems with our business, everyone thinks it's easy and everyone wants a cut of your business. I can't even count the number of people that have tried to involve us in a deal where they want a cut of the jobs we're doing.



-Had a salesman from a dealership tell me he had a few friends that wanted their cars done and how much would his cut be if they came in :censored:



- had a body shop call us up and ask how much we would charge to detail a bunch of cars they were repairing for a fleet. Only problem for them, we were the shop contracted to detail that fleet anyway - why would we give them a cut?



When you think about it these companies had a smart idea. leverage other companies to sell their wares and just take a cut for selling them for them. Almost no work on their part and fairly low costs just to run a website. I just can't see any intelligent business owner that sits down and actually runs the numbers thinking it's a good deal for them.
 
i don`t have a lot of dealer work experience... , i have not been in your situation , i do not have a shop , i am mobile.

all i can say about where you are now is that you have to rethink your business plan , based of your prev experience, and where you wanna be a few years from now, and focus your energy on the options you have.



try to look in everything, not just in undercut from competition or dealer rejection.

examples: what marketing are you running , who`s your clients, who`s your regular clients , what`s your best service , what`s your lack of service etc ...

you may find answers that will help you build a stronger business.

Cosmin
 
ShineShop said:
I just can't see any intelligent business owner that sits down and actually runs the numbers thinking it's a good deal for them.



I think what really needs to be considered to understand the full impact of these deals are things like customer retention, repeats, referrals, etc. There is no way that you do a deal for $.25 on the dollar and expect to make money. It is a marketing play, and a long term one at that. The real benefit likely doesn't come until the deal is expired and some of those customers come back next year.
 
MichaelM said:
I think what really needs to be considered to understand the full impact of these deals are things like customer retention, repeats, referrals, etc. There is no way that you do a deal for $.25 on the dollar and expect to make money. It is a marketing play, and a long term one at that. The real benefit likely doesn't come until the deal is expired and some of those customers come back next year.



I think that is the real problem with these deal in our industry. The people that buy them are not likely to pay full price for any other service or return. If they think they can get a $200 detail for $50 why would they ever come back and pay $200?
 
Nth Degree said:
I think that is the real problem with these deal in our industry. The people that buy them are not likely to pay full price for any other service or return. If they think they can get a $200 detail for $50 why would they ever come back and pay $200?



Almost every person I have spoken with that buys these deals online has sheepishly admitted they just keep buying the next deal and rarely return to the places regardless of how great they are. One woman I know admitted she buys a groupon for every spa that comes up and just goes to the next one that comes up and will continue to do so because of how much money it saves.
 
ShineShop said:
Almost every person I have spoken with that buys these deals online has sheepishly admitted they just keep buying the next deal and rarely return to the places regardless of how great they are. One woman I know admitted she buys a groupon for every spa that comes up and just goes to the next one that comes up and will continue to do so because of how much money it saves.



This is very true. I went into my deals expecting 90% of the people never to come back, and was after that 10% of quality customers. The ones that have returned have become very good customers that I expect to have for life and the word of mouth from those people, and also the people who won't be back is starting to gain some momentum. I think a big reason nobody comes back is they just forget about you. So in the next couple weeks I will be mailing them all a postcard announcing that I am now mobile with a coupon attached (But definitely not a 50% off coupon). I spent about 2 weeks running the numbers over and over, deciding what kind of package I wanted to do, etc. In no way did I expect to make a dime on the deals, but I was actually able to make a few bucks off each one after I paid my help, bought my supplies, etc. It was strictly for marketing, long term at that as someone said, and very much helps brand awareness which is important for any business. As long as you don't go into thinking you're going to make money, and as long as it's only part of your marketing strategy it can be good.



If I were to do another deal, which I'm not, I would do an exterior only express detail, which would leave alot more room for upselling an interior detail and possibly upselling to a full detail. I did actually upsell quite a few to full details, which did make a little money which was just a nice little bonus you could say.



The biggest problems I had with my deal customers were maybe 10 or 15 people that did not read the whole description and assumed because it was for a "detail" they were getting a full detail and not just an express detail, even though it was plainly stated. A few people became upset, but once I pulled the description up online, they were ok and apologized, realizing it was their own fault for not reading the whole thing, except for one guy who was just a completely unreasonable jerk who called LivingSocial to complain and they basically told him the same thing i did, it's your fault for not reading the description. The only other problem was again, people not reading the entire description and not seeing the extra $20 to be paid to me at the time of the detail if they had an SUV, van, or large truck. And there were also a few people who denied that their RAV-4, or other small SUV was actually an SUV because it states "station wagon" on their registration.



All in all, would I do it again? Yes, but I would have only run one deal instead of the two I did and left more room for upselling.



A huge problem with these deals are the shops that just want the money and don't care about the quality, which is hurting the whole industry. Here is one of my reviews from a deal customer:



"I've never brought my car to get it detailed but with a Groupon?--why not?? My car was filthy. I brought it camping and to the beach so there was grass, sand, and severe brake dust on my tire rims. Then I brought the car to get it detailed and it was beautiful!! Amazingly clean inside and out!! Rich is super nice and so is the other young guy that was there. I tipped them well--they deserved it!!!"



I've looked at every other shop's reviews in the area that has run a deal and have yet to find a positive review from one of their deal customers, they are all negative. This is bad for all of us. This is not to say some of the other shops are not doing a good job, it's alot easier to get a bad review than a good one, it's just the nature of people to leave a bad review as soon as you upset them, so sometimes no review is a good review.





CosminTX said:
i don`t have a lot of dealer work experience... , i have not been in your situation , i do not have a shop , i am mobile.

all i can say about where you are now is that you have to rethink your business plan , based of your prev experience, and where you wanna be a few years from now, and focus your energy on the options you have.



try to look in everything, not just in undercut from competition or dealer rejection.

examples: what marketing are you running , who`s your clients, who`s your regular clients , what`s your best service , what`s your lack of service etc ...

you may find answers that will help you build a stronger business.

Cosmin



Thanks for the advice. Once I'm out of the shop and get somewhat settled into the mobile routine I will be rethinking my business plan. I think had a good plan when I opened the shop, but as I said in another post, the market can change in the blink of an eye, which it did, so my old business plan is no longer effective. Time to review, rethink and change with the market.
 
The reason deal sites don't work in our business is simple. Everything we are charging is for labor. There is zero percent markup on a detail. There is no starting margin. zip zero nadda. I charge $100 for an express detail on a car and it takes about 3 hrs. I spend less then $5 on chemicals so $95 dollars is the labor cost. if i decide to do a deal and sell my services for 1/2 off $50 and then the deal site wants to split it with me now I get $25. The chemicals still cost me $5 and I still spent 3 hrs on the car which means I'm working for $6 and change an hr.(not even minimum wage in mass) Other business have a markup to start with a restaurant is selling a product that has markup and margin to begin with. If you go into a restaurant they will sell you a steak for $34.99 that they bought for $4. If you bought a deal site gift certificate to that restaurant for $70 it means you only paid $35 for it. Now you take your wife and your $70 gift certificate to the restaurant and order two steak dinners you have a nice nite out. the deal site splits the $35 with the restaurant owner. so the deal site makes $17.50 for listing you on their site. and the restaurant got $17.50 for $8 dollars worth of steak. maybe you and your wife even ordered some wine to go with the steak. Now the restaurant really made some money. Auto detailers do not have the $35 steak to start with so how the heck can any detailer think that this is a good "deal" for our industry. If I'm missing something please speak up,but in the meantime I ask all business owners to stay away from running these deals it's bad business.
 
You're right Mike, it's not a good deal. But name another way you can get a large number of people through your doors, to see the high quality of work you do, with no money spent up front? In the matter of a few days I got over 200 people to buy the deal which means that's 200 people (or however many actually redeem their vouchers) that will be coming into my shop without a penny spent on marketing. Again, it's not about making money, it's marketing. Would I recommend any shop do it? No. But I feel it was good in my situation, being in the rear of a building with no drive by traffic and no sign out front (thanks to a landlord who doesn't care about his tenant's well being) and without a large marketing budget. There is simply no other way that I know of that I could have gotten that many people through my doors without spending big $$ up front. It's definitely not for everybody, but for certain people, with a well thought out plan, it can be good. Would I have done it if I were mobile at the time? Absolutely not. If you are able to get that many people through your doors without doing a groupon type deal, then you definitely should not do one. I think it's a case by case type thing that only certain businesses in certain situations should do. And it's only something someone should do if they are willing to take the hit of not making much money on each deal, and again, only for marketing with no $ spent up front. If I thought for a second I was going to lose money, or I didn't have help to do it, I would never have done it. It would have put me out of business if I had to do all those details by myself. Instead, I had a guy doing these details while I did full price details to pay the bills and make the profit. I structured my deals and planned things out so I could still make money by doing full price jobs at the same time my guy was doing these deal details. One thing I have failed to mentioned is I was able to negotiate a lower commission that Livingsocial took from each deal which helped pay for my help, supplies, etc. Also I made sure any large vehicles that came in were to pay me extra, which ensured even more I was not to lose any money. I think you are too stuck on the making money part of it, rather than the marketing part of it. The big problem with these deals in our industry is the business owners either trying to make money off the deals or just not thinking things out enough and jumping in too quickly. It's a fine line between these deals hurting you or helping you. Another thing that's good is not everyone redeems their vouchers. So for every person who does not redeem, that's basically free money in the bank. On each of my deals about 20 - 25% of people did not redeem. Again I stress, it's not for everyone.



I agree though, these deal sites do more harm than good for our industry in general. But since they are there, certain businesses in certain situations can make good use of them if things are thought out well enough.
 
I wish you the best of luck as you return mobile. I'm fortunate that I don't need to rely on detailing to support my family. I guess if I was trying to keep the doors open at a shop full time I would view things differently.
 
Thanks Mike, this can certainly be a tough business full time, especially in this economy. And especially since detailing is more of a luxury vs. a necessity. Best of luck to you too.
 
Mike is absolutely right about the lack of mark-up being an issue, but there is another factor in play that makes these deals attractive to restaurants; Labor. They are already paying for their labor whether one of these people with a deal walks in or not. Many deals have restrictions like not valid toward alcohol, tax and/or tip, so ultimately it is moderately profitable. A shop that has a crew that is being paid whether they are working on a car or not could pull this off successfully.
 
Nth Degree said:
Mike is absolutely right about the lack of mark-up being an issue, but there is another factor in play that makes these deals attractive to restaurants; Labor. They are already paying for their labor whether one of these people with a deal walks in or not. Many deals have restrictions like not valid toward alcohol, tax and/or tip, so ultimately it is moderately profitable. A shop that has a crew that is being paid whether they are working on a car or not could pull this off successfully.



Unfortunately though I've seen servers get royally screwed by groupon customers. They either leave tips based on the amount they paid for the "deal" instead of based on the total ticket, or they don't even bother to tip at all.



And remember, restaurants don't have to pay their servers the same level of minimum wage that other businesses do simply because they're expected to earn 15-20% of their income in tips. A detailing business can't operate that way so the wage cost is a bigger factor.
 
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