Wax/Sealant Pre-Wash Removal

2.5RS

2.5RS

New member
I'm looking for a product that can be sprayed all over the vehicle *before* the wash process that will break down the existing wax/sealant layers enough that the ensuing wash will remove the LSP. Since I have no experience with these types of products I thought I'd ask a few questions here before I order anything. At the moment I'm looking at three products.

Hi-Temps Akyra

FK1 #1119

Meguiars Body Solvent

Of course, if you have any other product suggestions I'd be happy to hear about them.



First, do any/all of these require a neutralization step? or is that more for the rust removal step of a decontamination kit?

Second, I've done a little searching but haven't found much on Hi-Temps Akrya Clean, anyone out there use this stuff much? I'm leaning towards it based on price and the fact that Hi-Temp seems to have some real "Hidden Gems" in their lineup.

Third, is there a generally recommended dwell time for these type of products? 2 minutes? 10 Minutes?

Fourth, (and final ;) ) Question. Do these type of products have any ill effects on rubber seals, wiper blades, or other body plastics?



Thanks

- Andrew
 
Can't answer any of your questions, but you might want to think about P21S Total Auto Wash. I've heard it can be sprayed as a pre-wash to remove wax, but I've never tried it.
 
Why dont you just do a quick IPA wipe down right after you wash?

Shouldnt take more than 10-15 minutes to do.

Not only that but IPA is very cheap and readily available just about anywhere.
 
Sherman8r44 said:
Can't answer any of your questions, but you might want to think about P21S Total Auto Wash. I've heard it can be sprayed as a pre-wash to remove wax, but I've never tried it.
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Agree with Sherman.
 
Coupe said:
Why dont you just do a quick IPA wipe down right after you wash?

Shouldnt take more than 10-15 minutes to do.

Not only that but IPA is very cheap and readily available just about anywhere.
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I could, and I have. To be honest, I found the IPA wipe down more effective on removing polishing oils and residue than on waxes, and really not all that effective on sealants :nixweiss I know the IPA wipe is popular, but it doesn't seem to cut through sealants terribly well for me, unless the sealant was already starting to break down.



Sherman8r44 and Danase, Thanks for the suggestion on the P21S TAW, I hadn't thought of that one. A little pricey though isn't it? 5 liters in the $55-65 range? If it works well though I'll consider it a little more closely.



- Andrew
 
2.5RS said:
I could, and I have. To be honest, I found the IPA wipe down more effective on removing polishing oils and residue than on waxes, and really not all that effective on sealants :nixweiss I know the IPA wipe is popular, but it doesn't seem to cut through sealants terribly well for me, unless the sealant was already starting to break down.



Sherman8r44 and Danase, Thanks for the suggestion on the P21S TAW, I hadn't thought of that one. A little pricey though isn't it? 5 liters in the $55-65 range? If it works well though I'll consider it a little more closely.



- Andrew
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Are you using it at full strength?

I use it at full strength and there hasnt been any wax or sealant it couldnt remove for me.
 
I too use the P21S TAW for this, in part because I'm familiar with it (no bad surprises) and I have it on hand. Besides that I've used Hi-Temp's Remove-All, which *might* be an older version of the Akrya. I would have pretty much confidence in the Akrya working well, but I found the Remove All to be just a bit on the mild side, at least when diluted as suggested.



I've had great results using AutoInt's "A" product but such strongly alkaline products might be a bit harsh on something that's really delicate (never been a problem for me but some people even worry about Dawn in this regard). No real need to neutralize stuff like this (*IMO*) the way you oughta with acidic products (those are the ones used to treat ferrous contamination, e.g., AutoInt's "B") but the "neutralization process" for those usually just amounts to lots of rinsing and washing with something that's PH neutral anyhow (e.g. AutoInt's "C"), rather than a literal neutralize-the-acid process which would involve an alkaline product to actually counteract the acid.



I've stripped KSG with IPA before, but I'm not a huge fan of using it for a full-vehicle de-LSPing; I just have a personal preference for one of the other approaches; I'd rather do a "super wash" for this instead.
 
Eliot Ness - The FK thread by Tom P is actually the one that got me looking for a wax/sealant removal product. Iit seems to be quality and potent stuff.



Coupe - I've been using a 50/50 mix of 70% alcohol and distilled water. Which in retrospect is probably a little weak for the job at hand. That being said, I haven't used it often, as I don't really care for it.



Accumulator - How long do you find you typically need to let the P21S TAW dwell on the surface for effective LSP removal? Do you use the TAW diluted or full strength on the surface you are cleaning?



Thanks for all the responses, its definitely helping me form some more educated opinions on these products.



- Andrew
 
2.5RS said:
Coupe - I've been using a 50/50 mix of 70% alcohol and distilled water. Which in retrospect is probably a little weak for the job at hand. That being said, I haven't used it often, as I don't really care for it.



Accumulator - How long do you find you typically need to let the P21S TAW dwell on the surface for effective LSP removal? Do you use the TAW diluted or full strength on the surface you are cleaning?
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Glad you're finding our responses helpful. This is probably a good subject to research *before* trying something on your vehicle.



When I used IPA to strip KSG, I used it straight (I forget which of the two standard dilutions was in the bottle) and it worked very well.



When I use TAW for this I use it straight, which means I gotta rinse rinse rinse (which isn't half as terrible as I make it sound). I can't say just how long I let it dwell, but I leave it alone for a good long while without letting it dry. Five minutes, maybe ten at most.... sorry, I really can't say :nixweiss



IMO the TAW doesn't work as well for this as AutoInt's "A" though.



The more I think about this the more convinced I am that serious detailers oughta have both the TAW and the "A" on hand and maybe the (far less "soapy") Hi-Temp stuff too. I know I accumulate a goofy-huge stockpile of products and that few non-pros need a fraction of the stuff I have, but I do see a point in having products like this on hand if you want to go beyond the Dawn-wash thing from time to time.



Note that *IIRC* DavidB has used Dawn *straight* (sounds odd to me but I'm pretty sure that's correct) when testing LSPs and things like PolyCharger. Makes me wonder if we underestimate how effective Dawn can be if properly employed.
 
Why would you strip it off?

I just keep spraying the sealant on after every wash and ultra fine clay when necessary.



I bet pre soak at a coin op wash bay would rip anything off
 
SVR said:
Why would you strip it off?

I just keep [reapplying the LSP] after every wash and ultra fine clay when necessary..
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That's what I usually do too, by the time I redo things from scratch (oops, pun) I have marring that needs polished out anyhow and I usually just let the polish take care of it. But, well, he asked....and I will say that a really healthy LSP has sometimes gummed up my polishing pads, requiring me to use IPA to strip stuff off before I resume polishing; in those cases I ended up wishing I'd done the super-wash. I always do said super-wash when doing freebie details, not knowing what might be on there already and wanting to get things as clean as possible.
 
SVR - Since I don't do this for a living, I generally only take care of family (sometimes extended family) vehicles. I never know what was applied, or when. Seems like a good idea to get as much off the paint as possible before I get started. Some of these vehicles I've found layers of old caked wax residue in the vehicles crevices, which the prewash should help break down the residue so I don't spend so much time with small brushes cleaning these out.



Also, I'm still trying out combinations on my own vehicle to find what LSP works best for me. A spray on prewash removal product would be easier that going over the whole vehicle with AIO.



Accumulator - Thanks for the heads up on Autoint. I'd heard the name before, but never gone to the trouble of looking up their products/prices. A bit cheaper than the FK1 produtcts, and the "A" step at least dilutes further than the FK stuff. I think I'll end up ordering a gallon of the "A" step and a few small bottles of their PH neutral wash shampoo (two 16 oz botles will put the order price up past the free shipping limit)



Thanks again for all the responses!



- Andrew
 
Gee I never thought of that. I would have thought that a clay would get any old wax/product your family members applied, off without any drama's



Though I suppose just to be sure a strip wash or a good going over with prepsol would be handy.
 
SVR said:
I would have thought that a clay would get any old wax/product your family members applied, off without any drama's...
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A *LOT* of people assume that clay will strip off whatever's on there, and I've come to the conclusion that a) which clay you use and b) how you use it make all the difference.



I clay very gently and I usually use pretty gentle clays, so it hardly ever does much to any existing LSP, or at least it doesn't strip them like a wash with "A" does. More aggressive clays (I tried the newest version of the Sonus gray and man did I think it's aggressive!) or a little elbow grease can make a big difference.



SVR- Much as I like AutoInt's stuff, the "C" didn't impress me. *IMO* it's just a regular shampoo and not an especially great one at that (cool green color though). If you want to round out an order you could consider....uhm...well I sure do like their aerosol rustproofing stuff and their plastic razor blades are handy and I'm sure there are other things that're slipping my mind.



Heh heh, sometimes I've missed the big picture and ended up spending more to meet minimum-order-amounts than the penalties (shipping, etc.) would have cost me :o
 
Accumulator said:
SVR- Much as I like AutoInt's stuff, the "C" didn't impress me. *IMO* it's just a regular shampoo and not an especially great one at that (cool green color though). If you want to round out an order you could consider....uhm...well I sure do like their aerosol rustproofing stuff and their plastic razor blades are handy and I'm sure there are other things that're slipping my mind.



Heh heh, sometimes I've missed the big picture and ended up spending more to meet minimum-order-amounts than the penalties (shipping, etc.) would have cost me :o
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Well, put my order in earlier today. I did end up with two of the 16oz bottles of the "C" shampoo. It cost me about a buck more than the gallon of "A" + shipping costs. Since this is my first experience with an alkaline product, I figure the extra dollar with be worth my own personal piece of mind that the surface is back to neutral. I know, I know, I'll probably never use it again after its gone, but for right now it'll make me comfortable.



Cool green color huh? I'll have to compare it with the PH neutral wash sample FK1 sent me with my last order (its a cool green color too)



Thanks again for all the responses. I'll let you know how it goes when the weather improves enough that I can do an outside wash!



- Andrew
 
2.5RS said:
Well, put my order in earlier today. I did end up with two of the 16oz bottles of the "C" shampoo. It cost me about a buck more than the gallon of "A" + shipping costs.. I know, I know, I'll probably never use it again after its gone, but for right now it'll make me comfortable..I'll have to compare it with the PH neutral wash sample FK1 sent me..
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OK, it's not like the "C" is crappy or anything, just doesn't have the lubricity that *I* value so highly...remember that I'm a shampoo-snob ;) Others here have thought the "C" was fine and they appreciated its low cost when bought in quantity.



I'll be interested to hear how "C" compares with the FK stuff, those two companies are somewhat-friendly rivals and similarities between their products wouldn't surprise me.
 
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