Wax - Had Its Day??

Its been an interesting few months of late for me, trialling different LSP systems and bringing in more and more sealents into my armoury... This I have to say is in a complete turnaround to my previous opinions on sealents, where the claimed plasticky and cold looks always put me off, along with many assertions that sealents were difficult to use and fussy to bond.



However, of late, sealents have started to arrive in my arsenal and are getting more and more use as they find their way to the front of my LSP cupboard... Sealents have been around for a while and I confess I have shyed away from them for a variety of reasons and the ones I have seen up until now didn't really impress me with the exceptions of EGP and TW Gloss Guard whose durability kick most, if not all waxes, firmly into the weeds.



But now - two particular sealent systems have arrived with me, and both have served to thoroughly impress me on many fronts. Indeed more so than any wax has done previously. These of course being Zaino, and Duragloss. Now both of these have been around for a while, but they are new to me, however with each application and test I find myself impressed with the slightly glassy nuance they offer and there does seem to be something small that they offer over waxes. Couple this to durability of these products, where Zaino is beginning to impress me and reports suggest that both of these ranges are hugely capable and ready to kick most waxes for six.



Sitting looking at all the waxes in my collection now, I do wonder how many of them will be used again... Having been suitably impressed with each of application of sealents and their offering over a well prepped finish and in one case, the durbaility, I find myself wondering why I didn't go down that route sooner! :doublesho Thinking about it, I wonder if carnauba waxes are now more and more becoming limited by the fact they work with the same raw ingredient (albeit in various quantities, but let us not start that discussion!!)... its always carnauba wax that is left on the surface which presents some sort of glass ceiling at least to the durability but also to any look (if at all) that can be offered. Sealents, being man made, are open to advancements beyond what the "wax-tree" has to offer and this seems to be showing in typical performances of the products - they can offer more and are continually being developped to be better.



Now, I'm quite sure its not so cut and shut as that... I mean there are huge variances in wax durability (and some claim in looks, I'd venture to say highly subtle nuances are the only difference), so there's obviously more to it than simply carnuaba... the blend is important. But is the carnauba ultimately going to represent a limit that the man-made polymers are capable of exceeding by virtue of the ability to enhance them with chemistry research. Comapre durability of Concours and Souveran, both using carnuaba, and you can see huge differences, but I wonder how much of this is actually down to solvents carrying the wax and they way they prepare the underlying paint to take the wax? Or are there other ingredients around that can affect the durability significantly, and are these man made?



Its food for thought for me, definitely, and a lot of questions will be answered by the big LSP test in July, whether or not looks wise any LSP offers any differences to the real-world human eye that I, and the rest of us happen to have. But in terms of performance, it does seem to me that after trying so many different waxes of varying prices, there is a glass ceiling which they are struggling to break through. In my opinion, and that is dominating my LSP thoughts right now - if a product relies on a natural ingredient, then surely it must be limited by this, regardless of how much you wish to pay for it. Can man-made products as raw ingredients be tuned, developed to go beyond the natural products and then exceed still further... citing Bilt Hamber Autobalm as an example here, and its ability to withstand the salt test and protect unprotected metal. Not exactly a real-world test, but it is evidence of just what serious chemistry R&D can develop.



I'm in two worlds right now as far as LSPs go - but its certainly fun, and an entertaining thought to see just how these two LSP styles develop and whether wax can one day blast through its apparent glass ceiling that I myself feel I have stumbled on.
 
I'm slowly selling the majority of my waxes. Durability is becoming more important as I seem to have less time to play in the garage. Its hard to justify 476 and 1000p when ZCS/Z8 OS/OCW will suffice.
 
Well...It's hard for me to say this is a black and white issue. Zaino lasts longer on my car than Collinite and CMW do, but in my environment, I get better protection from bird bombs, tree droppings, and water spotting with the Collinite or the CMW than I do with Zaino. My wife's car is parked in a tree lined parking lot all day, so I have to use Collinite on it.



I will agree that Zaino doesn't look "plasticky" to me at all, and leaves an incredibly slick finish. I love Zaino, but tend to look at each car and the environment it is in seperately.
 
weekendwarrior said:
Well...It's hard for me to say this is a black and white issue. Zaino lasts longer on my car than Collinite and CMW do, but in my environment, I get better protection from bird bombs, tree droppings, and water spotting with the Collinite or the CMW than I do with Zaino. My wife's car is parked in a tree lined parking lot all day, so I have to use Collinite on it.



I will agree that Zaino doesn't look "plasticky" to me at all, and leaves an incredibly slick finish. I love Zaino, but tend to look at each car and the environment it is in seperately.



Thank you!



My thoughts exactly :nervous:
 
Wax had it's day for me the day I discovered Zaino. That's not to say that waxes don't have their place in my arsenal but for longevity's sake I just can't pick up a wax and feel good about applying it knowing the weather will have beaten it in a matter of weeks.
 
Interesting; I've gone the other way. I still use sealants regularly. Many of them look good and their durability can not be denied, but I still prefer using a wax on most cars.
 
That's what makes this forum great - we each have our own opinions, and it is also interesting to see how 2 people can look at the same car, and have differing opinions about how the LSP looks.



From a business standpoint, I can't just use the same thing for every car I detail. I have to use what fits the car, and the environement that it is in. If I have clients with sports cars, that aren't daily drivers, and are garaged a lot, I use Zaino. 3 Zfx'd layers of Zaino will last over a year on cars like that. With the birds and tree gunk, and hard rain around here, I use waxes (and just reapply more frequently) on cars that are exposed to all that.
 
David Fermani said:
I usually top my sealant with a wax. I think it makes for a softer feeling, wetter looking finish.



ThumperMX113 said:
I agree completely.



Many people say this, so by virtue of that I imagine there must be somthing in it, but I'm damned if IO can see it personally trying it on my own metallic black car - waxing a panel, it looks just the same as the Zaino panels, though the beading changes a little... :)



Will be interesting end of next month to see if a group of people can tell waxed and sealed cars apart in a blind LSP test :)
 
I've only used a few sealants (KSG, BF, UPP, FK1000) and of those I seldom use the BF any more. But I still use waxes more often and I generally like them better.



Note that I've never used Zaino but know people who do. On some of their vehicles it looks great, but on others I simply don't care for it, and Zaino is one of the few LSPs I can readily identify ("nice car...is that Zaino on it? Ah, thought so...") in real life.



On some paints I have definite preferences appearance-wise, and certain waxes appeal to me on some of those (just as certain sealants appeal to me on *other* paints). I just can't see it as an either/or thing as those subtle paint/LSP matches just don't always come out in favor of one or the other. My preferences on *my* vehicles just happen to work out more in the favor of waxes.



Highly subtle differences: I know *exactly* what I do/don't like on our vehicles, but if I were prepping cars for other people, these differences wouldn't ever come into play (and I wouldn't care about them if they did). Pros are in a different situation here than I am.



Protection: against bird bombs and bugs, I find Collinite and even (usually) #16 resist etching better than my sealants :nixweiss And it's not a subtle difference, I have to repolish the front of the UPPed S8 after a summer vacation, but I don't have to do that with the #16ed A8.



Durability: no problem getting Collinite 476S to last over six months, which is durable enough for me. And the Collinite sheds dirt better (and longer) than any sealant I've used with the possilbe exception of freshly-applied UPP.



The KSG only outlasts the Collinite if I apply at least four layers, and the UPP just doesn't stay slick as long as the Collinite or even (sometimes) the #16. Heavily layered KSG does impart a cool "plastic coated" feel, and it does protect well agains wash-induced marring; it's the only LSP with which I've experienced light marring that was *only* in the LSP, not actually in the paint.



Topping: on some paints I did notice a nice improvement in appearance by topping KSG with #16, but not enough to sacrifice the ability to apply more KSG.



Future improvements: even with natural waxes being part of "carnaubas", I think there can still be advances with regard to durability and other characteristics as there are a lot of ingredients besides the natural waxes. But then again one of my favorite waxes is still #16, which has stayed basically unchanged since the 1950s!
 
Accumulator said:
Durability: no problem getting Collinite 476S to last over six months, which is durable enough for me. And the Collinite sheds dirt better (and longer) than any sealant I've used with the possilbe exception of freshly-applied UPP.





How are you judging Durability? Not that I want to dismiss that a wax can last 6 months -- I'm simply skeptic of it. We know that carnauba's are susceptible to heat which softens the layer(s). I would imagine going through that day after day (especially on your hood) would lead to premature 'failure' of the protection given.



If you are judging from it's beading action? What are you using for a car wash soap? Would it be anything that adds 'protection' to the vehicle? This IMHO is not exactly a fair way to judge longevity of waxes. I've seen cars that bead up pretty well after using nothing but some 1Z Perls or heck even ONR.
 
Mindflux said:
How are you judging Durability? Not that I want to dismiss that a wax can last 6 months -- I'm simply skeptic of it. We know that carnauba's are susceptible to heat which softens the layer(s). I would imagine going through that day after day (especially on your hood) would lead to premature 'failure' of the protection given.



If you are judging from it's beading action? What are you using for a car wash soap? Would it be anything that adds 'protection' to the vehicle? This IMHO is not exactly a fair way to judge longevity of waxes. I've seen cars that bead up pretty well after using nothing but some 1Z Perls or heck even ONR.





Well, I wash all my cars with the same product (QEW, 3 bucket method), so if this product adds to the beading, all 3 benefit (even though they are wearing different LSP's). I judge durability by how long the vehicle retains its slickness. I feel this slickness when I glide my mitt across it. On my 2 garaged cars, I can get 6 months easily out of 845IW and CMW. I can get close to a year out of 3 layers of Zfx'd Zaino. Again, I prefer to use 845IW and CMW on the cars that are more likely to get bird bombed, and tree droppings on them, as these 2 products seem to help them shed these things easily when I wash, with no residual damage.
 
Mindflux said:
How are you judging Durability? Not that I want to dismiss that a wax can last 6 months -- I'm simply skeptic of it. We know that carnauba's are susceptible to heat which softens the layer(s). I would imagine going through that day after day (especially on your hood) would lead to premature 'failure' of the protection given.



If you are judging from it's beading action? What are you using for a car wash soap? Would it be anything that adds 'protection' to the vehicle? This IMHO is not exactly a fair way to judge longevity of waxes. I've seen cars that bead up pretty well after using nothing but some 1Z Perls or heck even ONR.



IMHO Collinite is more of a "paste sealant" then a carnauba wax.



And I agree, some people have great durability but they are topping the car after each wash with Z8, AW, OCW and washes with 1Z pearls (wich adds some serious sheeting) or ONR who leaves a tiny polymer protection.
 
porta said:
IMHO Collinite is more of a "paste sealant" then a carnauba wax.



Is Collinite a synthetic wax? That would answer alot of questions about its strong durability.
 
RE: the "soft" look of waxes, I used to agree with this, but I don't really see it much now. I find with some sealants, like Z5pro for example, you can get the same sort of muted glow you get with a wax. That said, with some waxes I find you get that muted glow as well as more precise reflections, deeper paint color, etc... I generally find sealants to look a little one dimensional. Some people say I am stupid... :D I tend to use what I think will look best on a customers car (and suit their needs), sometimes that's a sealant and sometimes it's not. Lately I've just been preferring waxes, but that could change.
 
Mindflux said:
How are you judging Durability? Not that I want to dismiss that a wax can last 6 months -- I'm simply skeptic of it....



No worries, I enjoy a good discussion of this stuff. And I can't always get Collinite's 845 to last long on certain surfaces (I have no idea *what's* going on there :nixweiss ) even though it holds up super on others. But the 476S just lasts and lasts for me. You've brought up some good points; note that I also considered all the variables that could skew my impression of the wax's durability, and IMO I've ruled them out with the exception of my post-wash wipedown with a leaves-stuff-behind QD after every wash, But note also that I evaluated the LSP's condition prior to doing that (so no, I wasn't confusing what the QD did with how the Collinite was holding up).



I *do* think that the post-wash QDing left a bit of a sacrificial layer that helped preserve the wax, but I do that on every vehicle at every wash anyhow. Wasn't about to mess with my successful regimen by omitting that step ;) But consider that my other vehicles LSPed with #16, UPP, and other products make for a good comparison (well, IMO) and IME the only thing that'll beat the Collinite is KSG, and then only with 4-6 layers.



When evaluating, I'm going by everything: beading, how readily those beads roll off the surface and how spherical they are, how slick the surface feels, how readily it sheds dirt, and of course how it looks. And I consider a wax "dead" long before most people (e.g., I consider KSG dead as soon as it quits beading and starts to sheet, and some people think that's how it's supposed to act). I sure do notice when my LSPs start to fail :D



Here's the complete rundown of how Collinite held up on the '00 Blazer I used for our daily dog-hauler (including through a tough Ohio winter). I usually washed it with my very gentle methods and Griot's Car Wash (nothing left behind AFAIK and I've used it forever on vehicles in all conditions). But I also ran it through the local touchless now and then, and that's murder on LSPs. Consulting my detailing log:



I did the initial detail with a few layers of Collinite (476S on most of it, 845 on the plastic trim, roof rails, and two test areas) in early/mid September. Then just washes followed by QD for months. The beading was getting flat in early April, and some of the plastic trim that I'd 845ed needed redone then. The areas behind the wheels and the liftgate weren't slick by May and at that point I clayed and rewaxed the whole vehicle.



In September the "A" pillars weren't quite up to my standards so I clayed/rewaxed them with 476S. In December the sideview mirrors and the black plastic on the rear "D" pillars suddenly needed redone in a big way (used 1z PP topped with 476S). IMO the touchless was responsible for both of those situations. In January I polished and waxed the black rear window surround and clayed/rewaxed the liftgate. In February I clayed and rewaxed the rear quarters and the rocker panels. In March I redid the whole detail (even though it was still OK even if not super/"just detailed") and turned it over to the new owner.



At no time was it *ever* in "needs attention" condition; it was always very nice by any standards, even "Autopian" ones ;)




...We know that carnauba's are susceptible to heat which softens the layer(s). I would imagine going through that day after day (especially on your hood) would lead to premature 'failure' of the protection given



IMO/IME the heat-sensitivity of "carnauba waxes" (who knows what's really in this stuff :nixweiss ) is highly overstated. The only heat-related wax problems I've *EVER* encountered were with Souveran on the hood of the Jag. That hood gets *HOT*, but the Malms liquid carnauba that I used on it before Souveran never had any problems like that. Never experienced it with anything else and IMO once a wax "sets up" it takes a lot more than the melting point of carnauba to get it soft again. Collinite is a carnauba/synthetic blend AFAIK, but even paraffin/carnauba blends like #16 hold up fine in hot conditions IME. Note that ScottWax uses Souveran on black vehicles in Texas with no problems.
 
Back
Top