Wax Discussion ( primarily Carnauba - based )

Hi poyo,



Haha, yeah the cars have a shelter over them but their rears are exposed :p

I am supposed to try out Duragloss 105, AW and 521 Marine Detailer this month (Oct) but a mate from SG hasn't contacted me yet so I guess I will have to wait out on this.



AFter polishing, I would use a paint cleaner & base sealant (KAIO, ZAIO, Prime) before putting other sealants (2180, DG 105) and wax (#16, Swisswax) top of it. You can also try ClearKote Carnauba Moose Wax, which is recommended by a few members.



I hope you can find the best combo for your requirements soon! :bestwish

I will try to send the pics to you a.s.a.p
 
Poyo, if you decide to go with a pure polish (aka a glaze) there is no need to do an IPA wipedown, as it will remove the underlying oils. The glaze-base approach is not as stable as a sealant base. It is better to clean chemically (and to a certain extent mechanically), and establish a nice acrylic sealant base with an AIO-type of prep after the M80. The Jeff's route can be perfect, because Carlack's, aka Jeff's twins are great! The AIO consist 25% UV-inhibitors, 30% conserving/protecting agents, 35% optical shine & gloss enhancers and 10% cleaning agents. The sealant's cure time is quite long, so it would be the best if you could keep it dry for 48 hours. The curing rate is interesting though: it reaches 10% in 1 minute, 35% in 10 minutes, 80% in 30 minutes, 90% in 60 mins, but the remaining 10% cures out in the following 47 hours. Of course, humidity will have an effect on these numbers too.
 
Bence,



Thanks for your routine, gives me an idea on how to work on prepping the exterior. Now, you stated here, after polishing, a WOWA sealant, then FK 1000P and something like Swissvax ( or maybe any carnauba - heavy wax I presume will work well here ). The alternative that you gave me, is it after application of the carnauba wax?



I didn't know Finish Kare takes THAT long time to set! Now you also say that after 15 - 20 mons, I can immediately after another coat. Now is this process valid only for Finish Kare stuffs?



Now to have the car stay dry for such long periods, is not easy for me, as my car is parked outside 24/7... :(





Bence said:
My full routine would be: a WOWA sealant ×3 in 24 hours (theoretically, its thin structure allows the actives to reach the "valleys" of the paint the best), then 1000P which seals but also sits on the surface like a wax, providing "mechanical" protection too. Then a good carnauba from, say, Swissvax, and you're protected and beautified. Alternatively, you can use a liquid sealant like 2180 and 1000P as the final topper. It is important to let your base sealant set and cure for a long time, because as with any aminofunctional product, humidity slows the setting/curing process. It would be beneficial if you could keep your car dry for a few days, over the entire process. If you choose the simpler #21/#16 route, leave the #21 on the surface at least 2-3 hours or even overnight, remove and let it cure for a further 12 hours. Repeat. Then the same with #16 - with shorter setting-, but longer curing times (24 hours).



One possibility with Finish Kare: as they cure for a very long time (up to 72 hours), it is even more essential to keep your car dry. You can layer them onto each other as soon as 15-20 mins between coats, as they can cure together. However, the carnauba content in the Pink *may* prevent the water to break down the sealant/influence the curing process underneath it.



Final word: try to ensure long setting and curing times on a dry car, as it will have a positive effect on the overall durability.
Click to expand...
 
Why don't you post the pics here? :)



I want to find the right combo to work with all cars I encounter, easier for me, no need to keep so many stuffs.



vx55 said:
Hi poyo,



Haha, yeah the cars have a shelter over them but their rears are exposed :p

I am supposed to try out Duragloss 105, AW and 521 Marine Detailer this month (Oct) but a mate from SG hasn't contacted me yet so I guess I will have to wait out on this.



AFter polishing, I would use a paint cleaner & base sealant (KAIO, ZAIO, Prime) before putting other sealants (2180, DG 105) and wax (#16, Swisswax) top of it. You can also try ClearKote Carnauba Moose Wax, which is recommended by a few members.



I hope you can find the best combo for your requirements soon! :bestwish

I will try to send the pics to you a.s.a.p
Click to expand...
 
Bence,



So 1st off, I'll polish the car with a cleaner / polish type ( like M83, or M85, or Optimum Compound / Hyper Compound ), then I'll do a IPA wipedown, afterwards, I'll apply a pure polish / glaze. Am I right here?



Now why do you say by putting a glaze / pure polish as a base before applying sealant is a bad idea? As I understand ( pardon me if I am wrong here ), the polishing work is to remove as much scratches, swirls, water and bird dropping etc ), then a softer grade cleaner / polish ( if necessary, to remove hazing, micro - marring etc that may have occured whilst the machine polishing process ), and then a pure polish to bring out the best out of the machine polished paintwork.



Then I'm thinking of applying some sort of sealant ( to protect the work done ) and then a carnauba - based wax to improve the look of the car. I do not think I can apply the carnauba wax 1st and then a sealant, as carnauba properties is that it doesn't allow a non - carnauba based product to sit on top of it, am I right?



Bence said:
Poyo, if you decide to go with a pure polish (aka a glaze) there is no need to do an IPA wipedown, as it will remove the underlying oils. The glaze-base approach is not as stable as a sealant base. It is better to clean chemically (and to a certain extent mechanically), and establish a nice acrylic sealant base with an AIO-type of prep after the M80. The Jeff's route can be perfect, because Carlack's, aka Jeff's twins are great! The AIO consist 25% UV-inhibitors, 30% conserving/protecting agents, 35% optical shine & gloss enhancers and 10% cleaning agents. The sealant's cure time is quite long, so it would be the best if you could keep it dry for 48 hours. The curing rate is interesting though: it reaches 10% in 1 minute, 35% in 10 minutes, 80% in 30 minutes, 90% in 60 mins, but the remaining 10% cures out in the following 47 hours. Of course, humidity will have an effect on these numbers too.
Click to expand...
 
FK products have a fully compatible chemical structure, therefore they can cure in pack together.



Using a glaze means that the overall durability will be somewhat compromised because the glaze is a weaker component, and you want to use this as a foundation. For optimal durability, use the most durable layer-components (aka sealants) first. A glaze will add wetness and provide enhanced optics, but sacrifices durability at the altar of beauty. Glazes do have their place however...



If you choose a glaze, then use a more stable, less oily one. I'd recommend FK #1 New Car Glaze as it is one of the strongest-bonding ones which you can use underneath a sealant. Unlike for example Megs #7 which is a non-drying oil and highly unstable, the #1 behaves rather like a sealant. It goes on easy, but the surface is nothing special; as it has average slickness. Looks nice though. It needs a long curing time (24-36 hours), but after it has cured, it is very slick, has the typical FK "thick clearcoat" look and ready to be topped. In fact it looks so good that I was reluctant to top it first. Of course, other glazes can look ver good, just think of RMG or #7, but they are different. RMG adds richness, #7 is wonderfully wet, 1Z Waxfinish O.S. is neutrally balanced, but all of them compromise durability to a certain degree.



Yes, sealant first, carnauba second - although some WOWA products and for example TW Gloss Guard is designed to go over a carnauba finish. As these are very thin liquids, their solvents can cause some wax migration (wax coming to the surface, causing uneven looking spots), but you have to lightly wipe it down with a QD.
 
Hi poyo,



Sorry mate, I can't post any pictures before hitting 10th post :p

Bence's advice on using FK1 products since they cure together is very good. I know your car is exposed to the elements 24/7 but that flexibility of cure-all means you spend less time waiting for a product to cure sufficiently before layering another. It's a time saver.

Most members recommend a 24 hour cure period for a sealant/wax (maybe more) but with our weather, we might be able to reduce it to 12 hours minimum curing time. A long waiting time to cure multiple separate layers would only give more time for dust and other contaminants to attack the paintwork and product between layers. Which also means that you may need to wash your car before applying another layer of sealant/wax, using more time.



poyo said:
Why don't you post the pics here? :)



I want to find the right combo to work with all cars I encounter, easier for me, no need to keep so many stuffs.
Click to expand...
 
Ah, thanks for the clarification on the FK compatibility.



And yes, many thanks on the glaze subject. I can see that most glazes are used for show cars, right?



I'll look at FK #1 New Car Glaze. But the curing time? Whoa!



What's a TW Gloss Guard? Bear with me as I'm only so used / clued up with Meguiar's ( the only easily accessible detailing product here in Malaysia ).



I suppose now I can leave Meguiar's glazes / pure polish out of the list.



Btw, have you tried Dodo Juice and Rubbish Boy ( both from UK, and apparently Rubbish Boy is a 100% home - operated! )? I'm kind of interested with these two as UK have somewhat similar temp and humudity like Malaysia, although they're not as hot as Malaysia, but UK does have torrential rains ever so often! Both are primarily carnauba wax makers.



Bence said:
FK products have a fully compatible chemical structure, therefore they can cure in pack together.



Using a glaze means that the overall durability will be somewhat compromised because the glaze is a weaker component, and you want to use this as a foundation. For optimal durability, use the most durable layer-components (aka sealants) first. A glaze will add wetness and provide enhanced optics, but sacrifices durability at the altar of beauty. Glazes do have their place however...



If you choose a glaze, then use a more stable, less oily one. I'd recommend FK #1 New Car Glaze as it is one of the strongest-bonding ones which you can use underneath a sealant. Unlike for example Megs #7 which is a non-drying oil and highly unstable, the #1 behaves rather like a sealant. It goes on easy, but the surface is nothing special; as it has average slickness. Looks nice though. It needs a long curing time (24-36 hours), but after it has cured, it is very slick, has the typical FK "thick clearcoat" look and ready to be topped. In fact it looks so good that I was reluctant to top it first. Of course, other glazes can look ver good, just think of RMG or #7, but they are different. RMG adds richness, #7 is wonderfully wet, 1Z Waxfinish O.S. is neutrally balanced, but all of them compromise durability to a certain degree.



Yes, sealant first, carnauba second - although some WOWA products and for example TW Gloss Guard is designed to go over a carnauba finish. As these are very thin liquids, their solvents can cause some wax migration (wax coming to the surface, causing uneven looking spots), but you have to lightly wipe it down with a QD.
Click to expand...
 
Oh, I totally forgot about that. Oh well, I'll pass you my email.



Yes, having the car parked outside 24/7 does have some sort of benefits, but for example, if I am applying FK #1 New Car Glaze ( and it requiring 24-36 hours to properly bond! ), I cannot apply anything else on top of it right? The problem now lies with me having to drive the car around. I do not mind washing the car, but what if the car got splattered with tar etc? Or got bombed by birdies early in the morning ( with me waking up usually the earliest at 9am... )? :(



Issues...issues...



vx55 said:
Hi poyo,



Sorry mate, I can't post any pictures before hitting 10th post :p

Bence's advice on using FK1 products since they cure together is very good. I know your car is exposed to the elements 24/7 but that flexibility of cure-all means you spend less time waiting for a product to cure sufficiently before layering another. It's a time saver.

Most members recommend a 24 hour cure period for a sealant/wax (maybe more) but with our weather, we might be able to reduce it to 12 hours minimum curing time. A long waiting time to cure multiple separate layers would only give more time for dust and other contaminants to attack the paintwork and product between layers. Which also means that you may need to wash your car before applying another layer of sealant/wax, using more time.
Click to expand...
 
you can oder waxes and high grade polishes from a company buy the name of [ardex of phliadelphia] the are a giant manufacterer of detailing products and have been in business for decades
 
poyo! thanks for creating this thread, the replies on here are wonderful!!



I also want to testify to vx55's experience with EGP



vx55 said:
Currently, I have a metallic silver Nissan Latio (Versa) to test 3xSRP and 3xEGP. I applied them on 31st August and the combo is still lasting, with strong beading especially on the roof. The car is garaged every night and washed weekly except for a few longer breaks. I applied both products by hand.
Click to expand...



Few days back I simply tested the durability of EGP vs M21. I applied them both to a scrap panel, wipe off after an hour, then I started washing the panel with dishwashing solution. After several washes, it was obvious that the EGP was still repelling water faster than M21. When I continue washing until the M21 didn't repel water anymore, EGP was still repelling, but slowly.



The disadvantage of using EGP is that the drying time is long and doesn't do much to darken the paint as much as I would like. Durability and protection is great.

M21 is easy to use, and produce instant results.



and just now, applied M26 vs FK Pink side by side to a scrap panel with nothing below it. The Pink darkened the paint very nicely, M26 didn't seem to darken:nixweiss . And I agree with bernard (SilverSeven) about beauty waxes lasting through 1 day of rain only. And well said bernard!!



Bence, do you have experience with Pinnacle Souveran? In your opinion, how does it compare to FK Pink?
 
No prob Fishy! Well, this is currently my fav detailing thread that's still a bit "open" when it comes to discussing multitude brands of detailing - related stuffs!



This EGP sounds mighty interesting. Errr...what is EGP ( for give me for I am still very new in detailing! )?



Now, this talk of beauty waxes holding up only for a day scares me a wee bit. Is M16, Collinite 476S and Carnauba Moose Wax ( hhhmmm, not sure with Moose is the most durable carnauba - based one ) considered to be beauty waxes?



FK Pink Wax is, I believe, a beauty wax, could be in the same league as Natty's Blue too. I read a number of postings here stating that natty's Blue is a beauty wax and M16 lasts much longer that Natty's Blue, but I could be wrong, for I am just shooting in the dark!



fishbonezken said:
poyo! thanks for creating this thread, the replies on here are wonderful!!



I also want to testify to vx55's experience with EGP



Few days back I simply tested the durability of EGP vs M21. I applied them both to a scrap panel, wipe off after an hour, then I started washing the panel with dishwashing solution. After several washes, it was obvious that the EGP was still repelling water faster than M21. When I continue washing until the M21 didn't repel water anymore, EGP was still repelling, but slowly.



The disadvantage of using EGP is that the drying time is long and doesn't do much to darken the paint as much as I would like. Durability and protection is great.

M21 is easy to use, and produce instant results.



and just now, applied M26 vs FK Pink side by side to a scrap panel with nothing below it. The Pink darkened the paint very nicely, M26 didn't seem to darken:nixweiss . And I agree with bernard (SilverSeven) about beauty waxes lasting through 1 day of rain only. And well said bernard!!



Bence, do you have experience with Pinnacle Souveran? In your opinion, how does it compare to FK Pink?
Click to expand...
 
Great Bence! Thanks for the tip! I believe you're also a fan of Optimum's range of polish, right? :p



Bence said:
Poyo, you can top the #1 after 15-20 minutes.



Ken, nope, I haven't tried Souverän.
Click to expand...
 
poyo said:
This EGP sounds mighty interesting. Errr...what is EGP ( for give me for I am still very new in detailing! )?
Click to expand...



I *think* he's referring to AutoGlym's Extra Gloss Protection, but I'm not sure.



Now, this talk of beauty waxes holding up only for a day scares me a wee bit. Is M16, Collinite 476S and Carnauba Moose Wax ( hhhmmm, not sure with Moose is the most durable carnauba - based one ) considered to be beauty waxes?
Click to expand...



I've never used the Carnauba Moose, but #16 and 476S are *VERY* durable. 476S is at least as durable as many sealants.
 
Hey poyo,

my apologies for not clearing things up, yes Accumulator is right, EGP refers to Autoglym's Extra Gloss Protection.

And beauty waxes, forummers on mycarforum explains that the oils in waxes that contributes to the wetness of paint is most possibly washed off after a rain or two, especially in our equatorial climate.
 
Accumulator, thanks for your clarification sir. I enjoy reading your replies etc, always great, concise too.



If it's Autoglym, I think ( this is my personal opinion ) I know how does the EGP lasts longer than M21. Maybe it's because Autoglym is UK - based, and with UK having such crazy weather ( sun, winter, torrential rains so often ), they do products that can last / handle their country's weather?



A lot of other guys are saying the same too, i.e M16 and Collinite 476S are very durable, with the Collinite have a little bit extra in... I forgot, was it in darkening the paint? Or what? I really forgot about it.



Accumulator said:
I *think* he's referring to AutoGlym's Extra Gloss Protection, but I'm not sure.



I've never used the Carnauba Moose, but #16 and 476S are *VERY* durable. 476S is at least as durable as many sealants.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the explanation on both what EGP is an why beauty waxes wear off so quickly! :)



fishbonezken said:
Hey poyo,

my apologies for not clearing things up, yes Accumulator is right, EGP refers to Autoglym's Extra Gloss Protection.

And beauty waxes, forummers on mycarforum explains that the oils in waxes that contributes to the wetness of paint is most possibly washed off after a rain or two, especially in our equatorial climate.
Click to expand...
 
poyo said:
Great Bence! Thanks for the tip! I believe you're also a fan of Optimum's range of polish, right? :p
Click to expand...



Poyo, yes, I'm a huge fan of Optimum products!



When you compare the #16 and the 476, the 476 has a touch more warmth, while #16 look a bit more neutral.



We can count in the EGP too, because it is a very warm looking, very durable and contains around 2% carnauba.
 
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