Wax and/or paint problem

P

pasadena_commut

New member
My daughter's Mazda Protege's hood is not shiny. The car is dark blue but the hood looks like it is dirty, even though it is not, and has no shine to it. It also does not feel smooth, sort of like a clean chalkboard or 2000 grit sandpaper. There is no overt peeling of the clear coat. This state of affairs may be the result of a severe episode of overheating - suffice it to say that the radiator blew up and the overflow tank melted. ([Some] girls and cars, need I say more? )

Anyway, today I tried to wax the hood, to see if it would make things look better. Oh boy, it did not. The car was washed, dried, and paste Turtle wax spread with a damp foam applicator. I then let it set about 10 minutes while one of the headlights that needed sanding was masked off. This was at 5:00 PM, in the shade. Then the wax was wiped off with some old cotton diapers. This is how the car has been waxed many times before with no problems at all. This time, the wax came off, but the hood looks like it is still on. That is, run a hand across the hood and it feels smooth with no variations in drag or any bumps, yet I can still see a pattern corresponding to how the wax was applied. The leading edge of the hood looks normal, as do the places the wax extended out onto the fenders, which wiped clean. Conversely, all the areas that looked "dirty" before have a wax pattern.

What is going on here? My best guess is that the clear coat and maybe the paint under it is riddled with tiny cracks, so that when the wax went on, it penetrated into these cracks, and that is the pattern I am seeing now. But that doesn't seem like it would be the whole story, since there was plenty of wax to pack all of the cracks, so no particular reason there should be a pattern. I'm not explaining that well. Imagine a field of ice cube trays on which dirt is dumped to various depths - scrape off the dirt and all the trays would be filled, regardless of the original pattern. By analogy the whole hood should maybe be whiter than before, but not patterned on a hand motion size scale.

The best thing to do would be to repaint the hood. For a variety of reasons, that isn't happening any time soon. Is there some way to make this situation a little better? The goal is to end with a layer of wax on the hood, but not have the hood look like wax was applied and never wiped off.

Things tried so far:

1. lots of elbow grease with a clean cotton diaper
2. a bit of water and more elbow grease with a clean cotton diaper

The first made no difference at all, the second made a very slight improvement, but only just a little, and then nothing more changed. Then the sun went down and it was too dark to do anything more today.

Suggestions? Thanks.
 
It would be easier to explain with a photo of the hood. My guess is that it is probably oxidation on the hood. Wax will not repair since most waxes do not have abrasives. My recommendation would be to try and buff with machine not hand, start with a polish if that does not work then switch over to a compound. Hope that helps.
 
pics are really needed, but it sounds like clear coat failure. if the paint is a true two stage, only a respray will work. what year is her mazda?
 
To me it sounds like CC failure or oxidation...............

Either way pics would be useful, and put the diaper on the kid, not the car. Get some good quality detail supplies
 
EVOlved said:
Anyone else think elbow grease with a cotton diaper maybe hurting the situation instead of helping?
Click to expand...

That's *EXACTLY* what I was thinking!

First step- inspect under good lighting, using the appropriate magnification. See what's really going on. It's all conjecture until that's figured out.

And [INSERT] lecture here about "[some] girls and cars...". Saying stuff like that perpetuates the "helpless dependent victim" issue and it can result in worse than an overheated car. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about the topic. Heh heh, I overheated a car back in my youth and was left entirely to my own devices regarding the aftermath....taught me a few things I've never forgotten.
 
Here are the pictures - it had to wait until the sun came out this morning. The whole hood shot shows how it looks like wax was applied and just left on. If you look closely you can see that the effect doesn't go all the way to the front or side edges. The close up is, well, a close up. The fingernail scratch picture shows an interesting effect. I missed a section near the back of the hood. I scratched that region with a finger nail lightly and it left those marks. The same action on top of the waxed swirls does nothing, as does the same action on top of the good paint sections. So part of this seems to be a tendency for regions of the finish to scratch very easily. There is also a roundish area more or less in front of the driver which has finer marks. There was a 1/2" glob of sap there which I removed by repeatedly soaking it with a drop of WD-40 and rubbing it off with a paper towel. It took about 5 minutes to get it all, and the surrounding rubbing seems to have removed some of this scratchable surface layer.

I'm considering stripping the wax (with dish soap), then polish a small section by hand with the same polish I use to clear the headlights, then rinse that off, and polish it with plastx on a blue shop towel. I have a small Ryobi polisher but not any other appropriate tools. I use that polish on headlights after wet sanding with 1500 grit paper, and it leaves a very light haze, which the plastx clears. A uniform light haze would look a lot better than the swirls that are there now.

Assuming this is the sort of thing that a pro detailer could fix, what would it likely cost to do it right? My daughter is about to drive this car off to a new job in another state, so I either have to fix it by sundown tomorrow or leave it for her to try to resolve once she gets there. (Honestly I don't think she would care how bad this car looked, but it bothers me.)

The car is a 2003 Mazda Protege5. I think the color may be "Laser Blue".

The cotton diapers may be too rough for this trashed section but it never caused any problems elsewhere on the car.
 

Attachments

  • whole_hood.JPG
    whole_hood.JPG
    848.7 KB · Views: 20
  • close_up.JPG
    close_up.JPG
    786.3 KB · Views: 24
  • fingernail_scratches.jpg
    fingernail_scratches.jpg
    368.4 KB · Views: 18
Doesn't look like CC failure to me but I could be wrong. Looks like one of two things to me from the pictures. Either somebody attacked it trying to clean it with something extremely aggressive like a Brillo pad or there is some product or junk spread out all over it perhaps with a diaper? That needs to be removed.

Its going to to need to be polished at the very least.
 
Agreed, needs polished. From the pictures the paint just looks beat up from poor car care techniques. Honestly in the pictures it appears to have swirls like someone tried to apply something by hand that just scoured the paint. Like using a 3M pad or something. Unfortunately it sounds like you really don't have the proper tools and products to revive this in the time frame available. Go through this forum make a small investment in tools and products. Practice on your own vehicle and the next time she comes to visit, you'll be able to make her car shine.
 
EVOlved said:
Looks like one of two things to me from the pictures. Either somebody attacked it trying to clean it with something extremely aggressive like a Brillo pad or there is some product or junk spread out all over it perhaps with a diaper?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I did not take a "before" picture. The hood was hazy all the way across with no particular pattern or mottling, not quite as bad at the edges. The only thing on it (now) is wax. The only applicator that touched the paint/clear coat, as opposed to the wax over it later, was the foam rubber applicator that came with the Turtle wax. (Which has never been used for anything else, and is rinsed thoroughly and then dried between uses.) A cotton diaper was used to remove the wax and polish it - but the large swirls you see were already fixed in place by that time.
 
Given the time pressure I would go to Wal-Mart or one of the chain auto stores and get some Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and a terry or microfiber applicator, and rub down the hood. That should make it a lot better (if it's going to get any better).
 
FOr a while, I thought he sent pics of the hood with wax haze.

WOW

Looks like someone tried to clean it with magic eraser
 
That Turtle Wax paste wax that sells for the cheapest price at most over the counter stores dries quick, and it is a PAIN to wipe clean. It's just not a user friendly wax, it's a price friendly one. You have to apply it insanely thin, which is almost impossible because it has the consistency of mayonnaise, and even if you get it on nice and thin, and buff it off as soon as it dries, you're still not guaranteed to buff it off clean. So I'd start by picking up some Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, grab a different wax and wash the car, apply some ultimate compound and apply a new wax. Turtle Wax ICE Liquid Wax is way easier to use than their original old formula nonsense, but even ICE dries within a minute of application so you need to make sure you're applying and removing it on time. Or go with Meguiar's Gold Class, NXT 2.0, or their Ultimate line of waxes which are much more user friendly and can be applied to the whole car before you have to remove it.
 
NO LSP that I've ever used oughta be put on so thickly that it's clearly visible on the paint. That aside...

If I rubbed any of my vehicles (hard clear Audis included) with my softest cotton diaper (and some of them are quite soft), it'd mar up the paint something awful(by my standards). That also aside, other than to imply a nudge towards MF...

Yeah, considering the circumstances, I'd get some Utimate Compound and do a test spot (using MF), see how that works.

This "waxing paint that has issues" approach is simply the wrong thing to do. Eh, *maybe* certain cleaner-waxes or all-in-ones might do something, but it's still not what I'd recommend.
 
Update. Washed the hood thoroughly with Dawn in water to remove some wax. No change. Rubbed (lightly) an area with isopropyl alcohol on a clean cotton diaper. That made things worse, creating a larger whitish area. Tried Meguiars clear coat safe polishing compound on one area (by hand, using a new clean terry cloth towel) - no change. Tried Meguiar's ultimate compound, by hand, using the same terry towel. That seemed to remove some of the whitish stuff, but not very well. Put the terry cloth cap on my Ryobi hand polisher (it's the only tool I have for this sort of work) and worked about 2 ft sq. sections, then wiped off the excess with another towel. This turned out to be quite tricky because the UC, or perhaps some of the wax mixed in with it, would form gummy residue around the edges, and it would dry very fast and become harder and harder to wipe off. I was working in a garage, the metal was at ambient temperature, maybe 70F. After going over the whole hood it still looked pretty awful, but most of the bigger swirls were gone. Then I noticed that a wet finger would bring up a milky paste, so backed it out of the garage and washed it thoroughly with a new cellulose sponge and water. After that it looked like it was about 80% of the way back to the way it looked before the wax went on. Which was pretty bad, but not quite as annoying to look at as the huge swirls (first picture). The hood section near the passenger side fender actually came out pretty good, with only a little mottling near the back. The driver's side was still uneven (2nd picture). Waxed a small section of the driver's side and it didn't swirl up again. Will wax the rest (gently) later, to protect what remains of the clear coat.

Meanwhile, waxed the rest of the car, using the same wax, with no problems whatsoever. So definitely a paint issue. Looked closely at the paint on the rest of the car and there is a tiny area of incipient clear coat failure on the rear spoiler, and another one on the driver's side fender. Both of these have a sort of "dotty" look, neither has progressed to actual peeling. The rest of the car still looks good.

She's leaving tomorrow, so it's going to have to stay like this until she gets it painted or finds somebody at her new site who can fix it.

Thanks for all of your help.
 

Attachments

  • hood_after.JPG
    hood_after.JPG
    754 KB · Views: 12
  • driver_fender.JPG
    driver_fender.JPG
    826.4 KB · Views: 10
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top