washing/drying black cars, impossible not to swirl it?

Yes, it may be possible to keep any color swirl free. I have a black daily driver, that is kept outside, and managed to keep it looking good, through the winter's snow and sand.



It was polished correctly (NOT by me!) and protected with #915 every two to three months.



I do not wipe it dry, and do not scrub on it when I wash it. I will occasionally GENTLY wipe it down with Z-6 or Z-8 but ONLY after it has been washed, and is dust free.
 
I agree with all of you guys about the "joys" of dealing with a black car, be it your own DD or something you have to work on.



My Honda black is ridiculously soft. I blot dry the whole car, except for glass which I will permit myself to drag dry. I'm careful touching the door handles, fuel filler door (I push very lightly with one finger to close it, slowly to make sure the hand doesn't slip, pretty OCD), etc. because even dragging slightly will micro mar the paint.



I've noticed very faint micro marring that I believe is from doing my wipe downs after washing and blot drying, I think I was using a little too much pressure with a shorter nap MF with FK425, it's randomly distributed though. I might hit it with a light polishing pad with JW Prime Strong first to see what it does, or Ultrafina or something of similar cut once this spring and leave it.



As was said before, I think it's best live with it. As a DD and given the car's age and current condition, it's not worth it to do any more than that once a year now imo. I could always use RMG too, which I may do yet.
 
No one is saying that you can't keep them to a minimum. Obviously, that is the goal. But there is no way to keep it a 100% perfect. Actually, this might brring me a bunch of crap my way, but I have always said that 100% is not possible on a black car.



I have polished all of these cars numerous times including the Bugatti that has won many best in class awards. When you polish a car you wave to wipe down that car after every stage of polish. Even with the best MF on the market and on some of the soft clears (see the Bentleys) you are going to induce some marring at soem point. Now is 99 or 98% perfect doable, yes I have done it. But to say that car is 100%, well pullit into this garage and I would wager just about everything I have that we could find something.
 
fergnation said:
No one is saying that you can't keep them to a minimum. Obviously, that is the goal. But there is no way to keep it a 100% perfect. Actually, this might brring me a bunch of crap my way, but I have always said that 100% is not possible on a black car.



I have polished all of these cars numerous times including the Bugatti that has won many best in class awards. When you polish a car you wave to wipe down that car after every stage of polish. Even with the best MF on the market and on some of the soft clears (see the Bentleys) you are going to induce some marring at soem point. Now is 99 or 98% perfect doable, yes I have done it. But to say that car is 100%, well pullit into this garage and I would wager just about everything I have that we could find something.
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Then they'll be slinging the stinky stuff at both of us, fergnation, because I agree with everything you've said 100%. It's why I'm so easily set off on my touch free soap box... most people think that simply using the two bucket method and good MF's will prevent marring, and that is just simply wrong. You touch it, you're gonna mar it. Mike Phillips has said it, you've said it, I've said it, and I even believe that Accumulator has said it. The only exceptions I've found to this rule are using ONR properly, and Accumulator's BHB jiggle method. *Most* of the time, ONR won't mar (at least on a visible level). A properly used (and in proper condition) BHB won't mar, either. Other than that.... you touch it, it's gonna mar.
 
SuperBee364 said:
... I even believe that Accumulator has said it. The only exceptions I've found to this rule are using ONR properly, and Accumulator's BHB jiggle method. *Most* of the time, ONR won't mar (at least on a visible level). A properly used (and in proper condition) BHB won't mar, either. Other than that.... you touch it, it's gonna mar.
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Yeah, no matter who you are or how you touch it, sooner or later you're gonna mar it. IT's just a question of how often/severely you inflict that marring.



BUT...having just gone through a tough winter with a black SUV for my daily dog-hauler (yeah, it's metallic, but I know how to inspect ;) ), if you touch it *properly* you can keep the marring to a minimum. After the quick-lube place incident, I found *three* Random Isolated Shallow Scratches on the Yukon's hood. Only one was over 1" long and all three were clustered together (so I suspect that something stuck to my wash/dry media when I did that area during one wash). That's all the marring on that panel. I was inspecting the vehicle after doing the hood (both incandescent light and bright sunlight, several whole minutes per panel) and none of the other panels is much if any worse (though the one dog did inflict a RIDS on one spot near a door)...not perfect but not bad if I do say so myself (Accumulator wrecks shoulder patting self on back). After 11 months it wouldn't *need* polishing for anything except some Autopia-level inspection and since the Collinite is still holding up fine I'm not gonna do anything until it really needs done.



So yeah...touching it regularly during the wash/dry (including QD spritz-and-buff while drying) will result in some marring. But over the course of a year it shouldn't be anything major. Just gotta do all that touching in just the right way, every single time.



Black, silver, whatever...clearcoat is clearcoat and marring is marring.



As for marring during the polishing/prep process, that can happen too. Gotta keep the shop spotlessly clean (consider air filtration, etc.) and gotta watch every single contact with any buffing media. No, you usually *cannot* pull the vehicle outside numerous times (say, to check for holograms) without *something* abrasive getting on it. That simply needs to be taken into consideration..how much do you care? Enough to at least ONR a vehicle that appears to be spotless? Enough to BHB/foamgun it? And those will risk marring too. Tough call.



Regarding QDing/etc. at carshows, heh heh...that's one reason why I don't show my cars.
 
so with that being said, what product can I use to remove swirls but not remove clear and paint?



and won't applying wax with a foam applicator just add more swirls after polishing? It's really a never ending cycle.
 
RZJZA80 said:
so with that being said, what product can I use to remove swirls but not remove clear and paint?
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You can't do it without removing paint, that's how it works. It's like sanding a scratch out of a piece of wood.

.. won't applying wax with a foam applicator just add more swirls after polishing? It's really a never ending cycle.
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No, the foam pad and the wax are nonabrasive and the cloth you buff the wax off with should be too.



Yeah, the cycle is never-ending, but polishing once a year or so won't take off an appreciable amout of clear (says the guy who keeps some vehicles a long, long time). If you're polishing more than that you're doing something wrong.
 
Quick test for evaluating how badly you're marring the paint: how long and deep is the marring?



It oughta all be short in length; if you have any marring that's several inches long you're doing something wrong and really dragging abrasive stuff around.



It oughta all be shallow, from very little applied pressure. Even sharp abrasive [stuff] won't cut deep unless you press down on it hard.
 
Accumulator said:
Quick test for evaluating how badly you're marring the paint: how long and deep is the marring?



It oughta all be short in length; if you have any marring that's several inches long you're doing something wrong and really dragging abrasive stuff around.



It oughta all be shallow, from very little applied pressure. Even sharp abrasive [stuff] won't cut deep unless you press down on it hard.
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right, it's very shallow, if not in direct sunlight you couldn't see it, and they are very small/short swirls. What gets me is I don't wash or dry in a swirl motion, but back and forth, so how do the swirls get formed in that design?
 
Black shows swirls and there's no way around not inducing them...nature of the beast!



You can however, lessen the severity of those incurred at wash time. I PW when grit is present (even odds that this is a better solution) and use 3-5 wool mitts or grout sponges using Accumulator's jiggle method and rinsing the mitts outside of the rinse bucket first. The best thing I added to my routine is the use of a Gilmour hose end sprayer and car wash concentrate. I don't care about foam, I lay an amount of soap on the panel before I wash it, helping lubricate that panel before applying the wash medium to it.



I blow dry to about 30% leaving the windows wet to "prime" my ww towel then proceed to the rest of the vehicle.



Having three black DDs I'm anal in my routine but know the consequences of owning them. Towards the end of my annual light polishing sessions I use PB Blackhole or Prima Amigo and retop to keep my sanity.
 
RZJZA80- Sometimes linear marring *appears* to be circular due to tricks of the light.



But I too think that the M85 coulda left it. I have vehicles with *HARD* clear, and they need *much* more gentle final polishing to look remotely ready-to-wax. Once the polishing/"Trade Secret" oils dissipate (which can take a while), previously invisible micromarring will become a lot more obvious. Even stuff like #83 can leave micromarring, even on the hardest clear.
 
harold97 said:
Yes, it may be possible to keep any color swirl free. I have a black daily driver, that is kept outside, and managed to keep it looking good, through the winter's snow and sand.



It was polished correctly (NOT by me!) and protected with #915 every two to three months.



I do not wipe it dry, and do not scrub on it when I wash it. I will occasionally GENTLY wipe it down with Z-6 or Z-8 but ONLY after it has been washed, and is dust free.
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Tom



I was amazed at how your car looked when you dropped it off at the shop. You did an AMAZING job at keeping it perfect, especially for being outside 24/7.



One of our customers said that your car looked amazing for a black car and told me I did an amazing job on polishing it. I told him that I didn't do it yet, but I put a lot of time in it last year restoring the true paint to make it perfect and it was very well protected and I taught the owner very well the easy way to care for it. He was very impressed with your upkeep.



p.s.



Wait till you see your car....:drool::drool::drool::drool:

I was there till 1AM.

It's all polished and I just have to wash it and seal it up in the morning.
 
Thank you, Ryan...I can't wait to see it! I thought it looked good yesterday... I appreciate your showing me how to keep it in such good shape after the work you did last year!



Again, as I hinted earlier, if the paint is truly swirl free to start with, and it is properly protected and cleaned, then there are no swirls to come back. Yes, some small scratches will show up, but not swirls.



The correction work you do is amazing...keeping it looking nice is the easy part!
 
I read a post about someone who had UPGP on their car and it made it super difficult to polish, like a hard shell was blocking the polish even after multiple attempts. I wonder if UPGP would make the finish also more resistant to marring compared to other products. Just something that someone with a black car could try.
 
RZJZA80 said:
right, it's very shallow, if not in direct sunlight you couldn't see it, and they are very small/short swirls. What gets me is I don't wash or dry in a swirl motion, but back and forth, so how do the swirls get formed in that design?
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After a bout of paint correction with whatever media and polish you use, always (and I mean ALWAYS) roll the vehicle out into the sun for the true test of swirl removal. All else is futile IMHO of course.
 
RZJZA80 said:
if it's nighttime, can I use halogens on stands? Will this show defects as well as direct sunlight?
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The halogens will help show swirling, RIDS, and other defects, but unfortunately you really do need direct sun light to find holograms.
 
It seems to me that you simply have to use *all* available forms of lighting and hope you cover all the bases with the suff you have on-hand at the time. The more different ones you use the less chance that you'll miss something.



Yeah, I simply can't see *light* holograms except in natural sunlight (though others use the SunGun for that). And if something looks perfect under the halogens that doesn't 100% guarantee that I won't spot something under the incandescents. And I've had stuff show up/not in natural sunlight too..stuff appeared on the Yukon after I pulled it inside that I absolutely couldn't spot in the sun and vice-versa. No easy answer IME :nixweiss
 
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