Washing at a touchless

Striker

Active member
I use to wash my car last year at a touchless car wash because my driveway was going under some construction so I couldn't use it. It always seemed to have done a good job but thats because my car gets dusty at best so it didn't have a problem removing that.



My question is do the soaps being used in the touchless washes have any harmful ingrediants that aren't ideal for paint? I do have a lot of Z2/Z5 on her right now but I wanna make sure before going there again.
 
The touchless car washes are almost worse than a regular car wash. The products they use are so extremely potent, and not only strip the wax right off the car, but they can also damage seals and trim pieces.





John
 
JohnKleven said:
The touchless car washes are almost worse than a regular car wash. The products they use are so extremely potent, and not only strip the wax right off the car, but they can also damage seals and trim pieces.





John



Really? Link please.



Living in the midwest I often have resorted to using a LaserWash during the winter months to remove salt and grime and they have never removed my sealant.



Here is some info from LaserWash TouchFree Carwash

LaserWash TouchFree Carwash



Are your carwashes safe for my car?



Absolutely! We don't touch your car, so we can't scratch your car! Also, we use biodegradable soaps and waxes that are ph balanced and specially formulated for cars.





Should I use dish detergent on my car at home?



No! Dishwashing detergents are designed to strip grease and grime and will actually strip off any wax protection your car has. The solutions used in our automatic and self-serve wash bays are specifically designed for cars.
 
I use the one where you actually do it yourself with a power wash type of gun. I just spray her down with water, use their supplied soap and then wrinse it off and call it a day.
 
It's very common knowledge that the only way to remove the road grime without the friction is to use harsher chemcials. Which is what these toucheless washes do. Johnkleven was spot on the money. the touchless washes are horrid for your paint. it's all give and take. If you're not going to touch the paint you have to have harsh solvent to replace that effort.
 
Jakerooni said:
It's very common knowledge that the only way to remove the road grime without the friction is to use harsher chemcials. Which is what these toucheless washes do. Johnkleven was spot on the money. the touchless washes are horrid for your paint. it's all give and take. If you're not going to touch the paint you have to have harsh solvent to replace that effort.



I appreciate your right to your OPINION but please provide a link to support your OPINION. Not asking for much, just some facts to support your OPINION.



I've provided links from LaserWash that state the opposite, so please follow up in kind.



OPINIONS are great, I have mine too but I'd like to see some facts, any facts, to support your OPINION.
 
Here's a quote on how it works.. You tell me if it sounds harsh



"‘Touch less’ carwash:

Touchless car washes today use Hydrofluoric acid as a first step and then an alkaline to neutralize the acid then high pressure water to wash cars. Hand washing is MUCH preferred, don’t use an automated car wash period, touch less or not, there are a variety of reasons: You should never, under any circumstances use a car wash that requires you to let another person drive your vehicle onto the ramps or into the wash, notice the disclaimer



“No responsibility for damage to customer’s vehicle.”



Local by-laws require car washes to re-claim or recycle water. This means they have two choices.

a) They can collect the water in tanks and pay to truck it away to a recycling centre.

b) They can filter and then recycle the water (dependant on how often the filters are cleaned/changed) will effect how much dirt content there is. Recycled meaning re-use the same water, which may include any road dirt/grit that is not filtered out is used to high-pressure (1,000PSI) wash your vehicle (somewhat similar to sandblasting) the final rinse is usually twice-filtered re-cycled water, this is to give the appearance of a clean surface on the vehicle.

c) To help clean the recycled water they use a chemical like Presidium Orthophosphate (TSP) and have the chemical formula Na3PO4. It is a highly water-soluble ionic salt. Solutions of it dissolved in water have an alkaline pH; this does a great job stripping your wax / sealant. TSP is generally not good for cleaning vehicles because it can corrode metal.



•To remove snow/sand/road dirt and grit without agitation (brushes etc) requires the use of very strong chemical cleaners.

•Probably the most important is that this type of automatic car wash use high-pressure water and strong alkaline detergent to clean vehicles that will strip the wax/polish

•You will also need to renew the vehicles sealant / wax to ensure the paint surface protection on a regular basis to counteract the effects of the harsh detergents.

•Also be aware of those that use ‘wheel guides’ as they will cause scratches / etching to the wheel surfaces, as many wash facilities will not accommodate either the tyre width or the clearance, thus causing sidewall damage

•Vehicle with lower than ‘standard’ suspension (Corvette C6 and other sports cars) should also be aware the wheel guides could cause body damage

•As an alternative in colder winter months I would suggest using a waterless vehicle cleaning product Protect All’s Quick Easy Wash (QEW)

•If you get a chance, attend a car wash / wax vendors symposiums where they give demonstrations of the different soap products that these type of facilities use, as a Chemical Engineer they scare me.. You'll come away a convert to never using them again, on any vehicle."
 
This is just a presumption, but I think that it makes sense.



The owner of a coin-operated wash wants the customer to remove the dirt. Period. Because if the cutomer doesn't get the dirt of his/her car, he/she ain't coming back.



So it behooves the owner of the car wash to use a strong soap - the strongest that is practicable, I would imagine.



Is the soap strong enough to remove your wax/sealant? I don't know. But I'm willing to bet that its a helluva lot stronger than the soap that I use to wash my car. I'm not going to intentionally expose my car to harsh chemicals.
 
I dunno how much you can generalize about this...the local touchless has never caused *any* problems for me (not that I've used it that often). No, it doesn't get things very clean, but it doesn' strip LSPs, much less damage seals/etc.



Accumulatorette usually runs her vehicle (whatever it happens to be) through a touchless in TN during her trips to visit her family. No problems from that either, and it makes the cleanup a little easier for me when she gets home. I've sure never had to rewax just because she ran it through that touchless.



But just because those two don't cause problems for me, that doesn't mean some other wash won't cause problems for somebody else :nixweiss
 
Q. Should I hand wash or use an automatic car wash?

A. While many people believe that hand washing is safer to a vehicle's finish than automatic washing, this is not necessarily true. A few years ago, The Technological University of Munich did a study for Mercedes Benz to discover which method of washing was safer for the finish of a vehicle. A few years later, the University of Texas was commissioned by the International Car Wash Association to conduct a similar test. The results were quite startling. It was found that hand washing a car 26 times and washing a car 26 times at an automatic cloth car wash, the surface of the hand washed vehicle showed damage. This was determined by taking microscopic pictures of the paint finish. When enlarged, these photos revealed deep and numerous scratches in the paint of the hand washed vehicle.

Why did this happen? It was determined that each time the hand wash sponge or mit is placed on the surface of the car, it continually picks up girt in the fibers that are not rinsed out. This grit acts like a very fine sandpaper putting scratches in the paint.

In an automatic car wash however, the car is constantly flooded with water and shampoo. This forms a protective layer between the washing material and the paint surface which washes away girt and dirt before it can damage the finish.

Additionally, most people who wash their cars at home don't realize where the contaminated water goes, or how much is wasted. Home car washing releases contaminated water directly into the environment, or into storm drains intended just for rainwater. This causes pollution in our rivers, lakes and streams. Also engineering studies show that a 5/8" hose running at 50 pounds per square inch uses 10 gallons of water per minute! As many as 100 gallons of water could be used in a ten-minute home car wash – most of it wasted.



And the opposing view from another website



A 'Touch less' or Tunnel car wash must be a safe way to clean your vehicle

Most so called 'Touch less' car washes today use a low pH acid as a first step, an alkaline to neutralize it and then high pressure water to wash cars. Hand washing is MUCH preferred, do not use an automated car wash period, touch less or not, there are a variety of reasons: Local by-laws require car washes to re-claim or recycle water. This means they have two choices.

They can collect the water in tanks and pay to truck it away to a recycling centre or they can filter and then recycle the water (dependant on how often the filters are cleaned /changed) will affect how much dirt content there is. Recycled meaning re-use the same water, which may include any road dirt/grit that is not filtered out is used to high-pressure (1,000PSI) wash your vehicle (somewhat similar to sandblasting) the final rinse is usually twice-filtered re-cycled water, this is to give the appearance of a clean surface on the vehicle.

To help clean the recycled water they use a chemical like Presidium Orthophosphate (TSP) and have the chemical formula Na3PO4. It is a highly water-soluble ionic salt. Solutions of it dissolved in water have a high alkaline pH; this does a great job stripping your wax / sealant. TSP is generally not good for cleaning vehicles because it can corrode metal.



Covered leather upholstery requires regular conditioning

As the top surface has polyurethane finish over pigmented finished leather, creams, oils or conditioners should not be used. Reminder; you are dealing with the finished surface coating and not with the leather itself.



As I live in minnesota and do snow plowing my truck is often transformed into looking like a salt lick. I try to use the self serve washes but often time and locations become an issues so it's a toss up between touchless wash or waiting a week to be able to self serve wash it. Positives and negatives for both methods.
 
Based on pure speculation, I'd think they did use harsh chemicals, I know I can't get off the same amount of dirt as they do using my own powerwasher. Maybe someone can dig up some MSDS info?
 
I know from personal experience most car wash chemicals being touch less, or "soft cloth" are strongly acidic, and then neutralized before or during the rinse. That being said touch less use "stronger" chemicals for obvious reasons.
 
Honda had a ServiceNews article about the touchless washes possibly etching the glass on the cars due to the harsh cleaners:



touchless.gif




About 6 years ago I had a local touchless drip some of the cleaner on the back window during the drying phase. Didn't notice till I got home and it took a bit of work to get cleaned off. After that I stopped going. I didn't realize at the time that they liked using acid for a cleaner.



I guess if everything gets rinsed off / neutralized quickly there wouldn't be any problems. Which is probably why so many people say they've been using them for years with no problems.
 
jfelbab said:
Living in the midwest I often have resorted to using a LaserWash during the winter months to remove salt and grime and they have never removed my sealant.



AND



Accumulator said:
I dunno how much you can generalize about this...the local touchless has never caused *any* problems for me (not that I've used it that often). No, it doesn't get things very clean, but it doesn' strip LSPs, much less damage seals/etc.



Accumulatorette usually runs her vehicle (whatever it happens to be) through a touchless in TN during her trips to visit her family. No problems from that either, and it makes the cleanup a little easier for me when she gets home. I've sure never had to rewax just because she ran it through that touchless.



But just because those two don't cause problems for me, that doesn't mean some other wash won't cause problems for somebody else :nixweiss



True. Never seen damage from the touchless (unless you are running a car through that has peeling paint). The Lazerwash doesn't use (terribly) harsh chemicals either, as the LSP is still intact afterwards. Obviously it isn't going to come out completely clean, but in the winter who cares.



Living in Buffalo NY means going weeks during the winter with temperatures never getting above freezing. I dunno about other people, but I don't want a coating of salt and road grime that can be nearly a millimeter thick at times sitting on my paint for weeks on end. The touchless (in my case I use the Lazer Wash like jfelbab) is the only way to go during the long Northeast winters.



The other, more thorough (and time consuming) option is to pressure wash at the coin op, then come home and ONR in the heated garage. But that takes hours if you are careful enough to wash without marring.
 
During the winter, I am a regular at the touchless wand place only for the water under pressure. The car almost seems to come clean with just water, do it on a road dry day and you can get home like BP to ONR in the garage. I have never been to any sort of carwash in any of the vehicles I have owned.
 
I have used touchless washes many times, MN winters are just brutal. Not only is it really cold, but the weather forces DOT to use lots of salts/chemicals on the roads. When its -20F there is no feasible way to wash. When it does warm up, you have thawing, more slop. Cars sometimes stay very filthy for weeks (months)



My 2001 ranger DD made it through 8 winters. When I got rid of the truck the only rust was on the weld seems on the tailgate and the bottom edge of the doors. It wasn't even full rotten metal type rust, just a little orange would bleed through the blue paint.



Not bad for a DD in MN actually. It will still be 3-5 years (if the new owner bothers to take care of it) before anyone would be able to spot rust from the outside of the truck. FWIW I have been seeing other 2001 cars/trucks around that are *very* rough, like completely rotten panels. Quite sad really.



I never had glass etch, never had paint blow off, never got "sand-blasted". No vehicle I have ever owned showed a down-side to touchless. I haven't seen 845 get stripped, either. Actually the vehicle rinses clean pretty well with it on there.



I am OK with a grime-film for winter, until I can really get to clean it.



I usually used the coin-op late at night. Then I would (quickly) follow up with an ONR wash and dry. Being a small town at 12am there usually isn't anyone else around, anyways.



Even if it is the worse thing you can do for a wash, being dirty until 32F isn't a great option either.
 
I take issue with this statement:



Additionally, most people who wash their cars at home don't realize where the contaminated water goes, or how much is wasted. Home car washing releases contaminated water directly into the environment, or into storm drains intended just for rainwater. This causes pollution in our rivers, lakes and streams. Also engineering studies show that a 5/8" hose running at 50 pounds per square inch uses 10 gallons of water per minute! As many as 100 gallons of water could be used in a ten-minute home car wash – most of it wasted.



I have a well, and it ain't no 10GPM, and who the hell runs water for 10 minutes straight anyway? As far as the run-off - it goes straight into my back yard, and after doing 1-3 cars every week, the grass, the weeds etc are growing better than ever. The furry woodland creatures are alive and well too, too much really as I've had to shoot a half dozen Goddamn possems this summer, the kids cats haven't mutated, nor the squirrels, rabbits or deer. Guess you can tell I live in the country, and wouldn't have it any other way.



Now - back to the car wash - wouldn't it be better to ask the car wash owner what they use instead of draggin talking points from other web sites?
 
The only thing touchless washing can do is fade/blush non-painted parts of your car(and more than likely strip LSP). The paint is fine, but everything else could potentially get damaged, especially if the soap concentration isn't properly monitored. I'll be posting pictures of EVIDENCE asap where all my soft moldings are spotted/etched after a coin-op pre-soak on my 2 year old car.
 
Back
Top