Wash brushes?

[magictouch24]

Just out of curiousity, do the majority of you guys use washmitts and sponges, or does anyone use brushes? Both of the shops I worked for before I went out on my own used brushes (with a long handle) to wash cars except for the occasional black car in pristine condition. I ask because lately I have been having really bad luck with my washmitts (I have gone through several this month trying to alleviate the problem) causing marring even though I wash them before and after use and use the two bucket method. I called my supplier and asked about the brush and he claimed it was safe for the paint so I picked one up, but before I use it I want to make sure it isn't going to have the same effect as an automatic car wash.



Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

[SK2003TypeS]

I use a short handle boar's hair brush (from Griots) only for my wheels. I have had no problems with it scratching/marring. I'm still to chicken to touch my paint with it though.



Wait for Accumulator to respond. Not sure if he's still using BHBs on his paint or not.

 

[the other pc]

Depends on the brush.



There are some high quality wash brushes out that are safe. Others aren't.



Try searching old posts regarding wash brush, boar hair brush, bhb, etc..





PC.

 

[Intercooled]

I use a chenelle wash sponge.Some times I'll use the OXO brush for lower panels and license plate areas. Works good for me but not fool proof.

 

[tguil]

The new brushes from Meguiar's work great on my Black Hemi. No scratches or marring and the price is right.



Tom

 

[Accumulator]

Just out of curiousity, do the majority of you guys use washmitts and sponges, or does anyone use brushes? Both of the shops I worked for before I went out on my own used brushes (with a long handle) to wash cars except for the occasional black car in pristine condition....

Heh heh, I'd treat every vehicle like it's a pristine black one



I used BHBs on the MPV and the WRX for a few years, even after I stopped using them on the "good" cars. Didn't mar it much, I'd only have to polish every year or so, about the same as with mitts when using a less-than-extreme technique. But I was very careful, often rinsing the brush after every swipe (think multiple swipe-rinse-dunk-swipe cycles for one door). Once I got the foamgun method worked out, I could go even longer without having to polish, but the MPV has had clear (sold the WRX without using the foamgun on it).



Now that I'm all extreme about my wash techniques, the only time I use my BHBs these days is a) with a foamgun blasting through the bristles, and b) when I need to flush really abrasive dirt off the finish (e.g., winter [stuff] ). I use it with the "dislodge and flush" (minimal contact) approach, which takes advantage of the BHBs' clean-rinsing nature.



The way most people use brushes (and, IMO, mitts too for that matter) almost guarantees marring. Two things to think about-



First, make sure the bristles aren't so stiff/coarse that they'll mar on their own, but remember that natural fibers (hair) will often soften when they're wet and the wash solution will also provide some lubrication (so don't test a dry BHB on a CD). If you use a brush with "flagged" plastic bristles, remember that the flagging will wear away, and then it's scratch city, so replace it before you need to (voice of experience, I ruined some cc'ed wheels with a brush that was initially *perfectly* safe, and it still looked fine).



Second, watch that you don't use the brush to grind abrasive dirt into the paint, either by exerting too much pressure or not keeping the brush rinsed clean (that's where the foamgun comes in ). If you move a piece of abrasive dirt over the panel with any pressure you're gonna scratch the paint. It's really tempting to wash a whole panel with a brush, especially one that holds a lot of wash solution. Don't press so hard that you bend the bristles much at all.

 

[imported_Jinba ittai]

The way most people use brushes (and, IMO, mitts too for that matter) almost guarantees marring.

I'm curious as to how most people use mitts and thus cause marring. I want to make sure I'm not one of those people.



As for brushes, I could never bring myself to use a brush on the car's paint.

 

[magictouch24]

Thanks for the replies. I don't know what my issue is with wash mitts since I do all the right things to prevent them from causing damage, but hopefully I'll have better luck with the brush.

 

[Boongie]

A question for Accumulator:

I would have thought that you were using a foam gun to spread a soapy car wash solution directly on the body of a car to lift some dirt away (since car wash is a surfactant) before using a mitt/sponge/brush. Most people wash a car by first wetting it with plain water from a hose and then taking a soapy mitt/sponge/brush and rubbing the body. I suppose that would lead to swirls since you are just rubbing the dirt on the body at first until the soap starts doing it stuff (along with the friction from the mitt/sponge/brush). But if I read your posts correctly, you are using the foam gun to force car wash into your mitt. Is that correct? Do you think that soaping down the car first would be of help in keeping the swirls away?

 

[Accumulator]

I'm curious as to how most people use mitts and thus cause marring. I want to make sure I'm not one of those people.



As for brushes, I could never bring myself to use a brush on the car's paint.

As best I can tell, many/most people simply dunk the mitt in wash solution and then wipe it across the paint, using a bit of pressure, maybe even pressing on the panel. A perfect example is the wash technique demonstrated at the Adams Polish website (sorry, no link handy). When I saw that video I just cringed and I bet that's how most people wash. This grinds dirt into the finish and then drags said dirt across the panel. I doesn't take much pressure to mar paint if the dirt on it is abrasive. Just think of *all* the threads about removing "spider webs", "swirls", etc. IMO this comes from people applying pressure to the dirt when they wash. The "trick " is to find a way to get the dirt off the paint without pressing it *into* the paint- thus my "dislodge and flush" approach.



On the brush and paint, if you take a clean panel with LSP on it, get the brush (e.g., Griot's BHB) good and wet with wash solution, and *gently* pass the tips of its bristles across the paint, and then inspect with maginfication, you'll probably find *no* damage. I tried it on my Audi and the Mazda and in both cases the wet brush didn't scratch the paint. It's the stuff that the brush drags across the paint that causes the trouble. But I still think my extreme wash technique (the mitt-balloon via foamgun version) is the best way to go, so that's what I usually use. But the foamgun-through-brush method is the only way I can clean winter grime off without marring.



Boongie- Saw your post while I was typing this up. Yeah, I *do* use the foamgun as a presoak, but that doesn't really do all *that* much (better than none though).



Yeah, you got it, both what's "wrong" with the "normal" methods and how I do it. Forcing the wash solution through the mitt/brush does a few things. It provides a forceful stream of soapy water to carry away the dirt that the mitt/brush dislodges, and this stream provides lubrication to help this happen without marring. The pressure exerted through the mitt/brush is only sufficient to dislodge the dirt from the paint.



The dirt is mostly flushed off the panels, rather than getting stuck to the mitt. My rinse bucket never gets very dirty compared with when I use "normal" methods. The same dirt that doesn't get transferred to the rinse bucket likewise doesn't get dragged across the paint. The whole idea that "dirt migrates up the mitt stands/into the sponge (and away from the paint), where it gets trapped until you rinse it out" doesn't work for me. IMO most of the dirt stays next to the paint, marring it.



For this to work, a) the car can't be really dirty, with caked on grime and b) you need a slick LSP that dirt doesn't stick to very well. You also need a good, high-lubricity shampoo.

 

[Tasty]

Accumulator - You make me paranoid to wash my car. :soscared:

 

[Mad iX]

One of the few times I've heard someone say a brush can be better than a mitt, but it's the first time I'd have to agree (when used in the right situation). I actually feel like getting a brush now. I always liked that they'd shed dirt a lot better than mitts, especially MFs which just hang on to it.

 

[Accumulator]

Accumulator - You make me paranoid to wash my car...

Heh heh, that's sorta the idea If you think about it, moving that abrasive dirt off a car is a pretty tough thing to do. But IMO it's easier than polishing out marring and it's a *lot* easier on the paint.



Mad ix- Just remember to a) get an all-natural-bristle brush, like the ones from Griot's, b)inspect the brush- I've had ones with adhesive stuck to the bristles and it really scratched the paint, c) test the brush, soaked with wash solution, on your paint *when it's already clean and marring-free* and inspect with magnification just to make sure it's soft enough (dirt notwithstanding), d) don't be seduced by the temptation to make it a quick solution- this takes quite a bit of self-discipline, and e) get a foamgun



Oh, and *everybody* should have a set of griot's small BHBs (pn 15520 IIRC, can't believe I might have that memorized ) for nooks and crannies. I couldn't detail without them. Great for around wheel lugs and valve stems too.

 

[SK2003TypeS]

...........

Oh, and *everybody* should have a set of griot's small BHBs (pn 15520 IIRC, can't believe I might have that memorized ) for nooks and crannies. I couldn't detail without them. Great for around wheel lugs and valve stems too.

I've been using the short handle BHB on my rims since I bought the car. It's a very gentle brush, but I wash my wheels frequently so nothing really builds up. I also have easy to clean 5 spoke rims. Those of you who have mesh style wheels, this can be a great tool for your arsenal.



Now just remember the product description too....LOL