Using Klasse AIO w/o SG?

R

riotejas

New member
Just wondering what ppl's thoughts are on using the Klasse AIO without the SG. I've read so many horror stories about hazing and the difficulty in removing the SG. This thread isn't about whether or not to use SG -- I've decided not to use it. I'm asking about what to use on top of AIO.



I have a few swirls and slight imperfections but don't want to bother with an SMR. I don't have a rotary/PC, nor do I want to buy one. I also don't want to apply the SMR by hand. Basically the finish on my paint is good, but I want to get it a bit better using a product.



If I wanted to use only the AIO, what else would I use with it? Top it with another glaze then followed with a wax?



In other words:



Wash -> AIO -> Glaze (eg. Meguiar's) -> Wax



?



Would the glaze even do anything here?
 
I’ve SG’d a Porsche, Bimmer, Ford, Plymouth and a Subaru and never experienced hazing. Is this different than streaking or hazing/micro-marring from mechanical polishes? As far as the difficulty of removal, yes it can be a pain but is easily remedied by spritzing trouble spots with a QD and buffing out or using the slightly damp towel followed by a dry towel method. I find it’s best to apply and remove the SG in the shade and the surface being cool to the touch.



If you are looking for months of protection then you need the SG, and multiple layers of it, otherwise AIO followed by wax should look sweet. The glaze on top of the AIO would be wasted I think and may bugger up the AIO. The AIO is a good final polish so you shouldn’t be needing to fill blemishes with a glaze.



Anyways that’s my $.02

:wavey



SJS



Edit: Hmmm I read hastily sometimes. You may need to be very thorough with the AIO by hand and it may take a long time( *shutter* non-pc flashbacks). Glaze is a great way to fill with little effort but durability is not good. Although I’m not sure what Meg’s glaze you are planning on using…..
 
If applying the SG is tough for you then you just need to learn a better technique. It is worth it. Nothing you put on top of AIO will equal what the SG does. The hazing is easy to control if you use the proper amount and buff it off the right way. Have you tried buffing it with a damp MF towel? I've had really good success with that method.



This is just me but I wouldn't top AIO with anything else except for SG. I've topped SG with everything under the sun but only one product tops AIO in my business. That's just my way though. If the SG doesn't work for you then I guess it doesn't work for you. Maybe try Blackfire? It applies eaiser than Klasse. There is a durability issue with BF but there is going to be a durability issue with whatever you top AIO with if you don't use SG anyway. :nixweiss You might want to give it a shot. I've been very very happy with it.



edit: If you aren't going to top AIO with SG then just pick a wax. Really if you aren't going to use SG then you could probably just skip the AIO. There are plenty of paint cleaners out there that you could use. I did very well for a long time using Meguiar's 3 stage wax system. You can top AIO with anything you want though. I'd stick with your idea and go with something from Meguiar's. They really make a top notch wax. :up
 
i'm a recent newbie klasse user (thanks to Mindflux for making it available) and i had absolutely no problems with AIO andSG. After reading up on the SG techniques from all the awesome autopians, i found it pretty damn easy to use with excellent results. but if you really don't want to go thru with it, then using AIO with any sort of wax doesn't seem like that bad an idea if you don't mind having to rewax every few weeks.
 
gb: can you share your application tips? There is too much info that is too spread out on application for AIO+SG.



After reading some of your feedback, i might try SG afterall depending on whether the application+removal method isn't too nuts.



So far, this is my understanding for AIO:

Apply AIO with a foam pad lightly misted with QD. No cure time is neccessary, remove with MF.



Correct? What 'bout SG?
 
On my wifes car, a red 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix, I apply AIO by hand and then follow up with Rain Dance liquid by PC, it's quick cheap and works really well.
 
Last weekend, I did the AIO/Souveran combo and it looked pretty nice. Even a pro detailer remarked on how it looked on my 2002 Maxima. :D



I did SG the rims, though. :D
 
tmchow said:


So far, this is my understanding for AIO:

Apply AIO with a foam pad lightly misted with QD. No cure time is neccessary, remove with MF.



Correct? What 'bout SG?
Click to expand...



You can apply AIO in a couple of ways. I've never tried the foam pad with QD but I'd guess that works too. I use a damp MF applicator and that works great. There isn't any cure time neccessary so you can just do one panel at a time and buff it off when you are done. SG should sit for a good 30 or 45 minutes minimum before buffing off and should be allowed a full day to cure before applying another coat. Some people do two coats at a time and don't seem to have a problem with it, but for best results you should let it cure for a day between coats. :up



Glad to hear that you are reconsidering SG. It really is a great addition to you detailing arsenol. The key to SG is to apply real thin layers. If you can see it, then you've used too much. Using too much doesn't hurt your car but it accounts for some of the hazing and difficulties that people talk about regarding SG. Thin layers are the key. Buffing off can be done with a damp MF towel followed up with a dry one or just misting some non-carnuba or silicone QD before buffing. Even water works. Good luck!
 
You can use AIO only or you can top it with any wax. AIO itself will leave a light coat of acrylic protection and should last at least 3 months.

This is 1xAIO and 1xGold Class on top:
 
tmchow,



I too, consider SG not worth the effort. Not that I think it's difficult to work with or anything...because I don't think working with SG is hard at all......it's just that carnuaba looks better than SG. What are my thoughts on using AIO without the SG? I think that would be fine. Just be sure and top the AIO with a high-quality carnauba. You might be surprised at how well a good carnauba like Blitz or Souveran will fill your swirls.



Also, if you really want to remove a meaningful amount of swirls, there really is no way around using a swirl-removing product like SMR or FI-2.
 
I too, consider SG not worth the effort. Not that I think it's difficult to work with or anything...because I don't think working with SG is hard at all......it's just that carnuaba looks better than SG.
Click to expand...



If you're going for looks alone and like the look of carnuaba, I'm not sure why you'd bother with AIO at all.



I switched from Blitz to AIO+SG because of the better, and much longer, protection that the Klasse combo provides.

:up for polymer resin sealants.
 
Intermezzo said:
tmchow,



I too, consider SG not worth the effort. Not that I think it's difficult to work with or anything...because I don't think working with SG is hard at all......it's just that carnuaba looks better than SG.

Click to expand...



I agree that carnuba looks better than SG but would you agree that carnuba on top of SG looks better? Carnuba and SG have different qualities that make em great. Carnuba won't protect like SG and SG won't glow like carnuba. Why not have the best of both worlds? Just a thought.
 
you are so right jngr, i was thinking about going the plain old carnuaba route with the ML, but i would really like to have to protect of SG underneath, with swirls, surface temp, durability, etc. I love SG + carnuaba. I may try P21S GEPC and carnuaba wax very soon though
 
kreativ said:
If you're going for looks alone and like the look of carnuaba, I'm not sure why you'd bother with AIO at all.
Click to expand...

The only benefit I see in using AIO as a base for carnauba is in the added protection. It's not the same amount of protection as SG obviously, but it's still a bit more than using an oil based-product under your carnauba. If my concern was more for looks and less for long-term protection, then you're right....not need to even bother with AIO. Just use a good pre-wax polish and top that with carnauba.

Jngrbrdman said:
I agree that carnuba looks better than SG but would you agree that carnuba on top of SG looks better? Carnuba and SG have different qualities that make em great. Carnuba won't protect like SG and SG won't glow like carnuba. Why not have the best of both worlds? Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Yes and No. :) j/k It probably would look better. You definitely have more experience than I do in this area, and it's been a while since doing the AIOx1, SGx4, Souveran routine on my car. I should amend my original post to say that if you're going to do AIO, then you might as well add several layers of SG as well. Although AIO + Carnauba will provide a great shine, it would be hard to argue (actually no argument at all) that it would be a better shine than 1AIO,4KSG, +carnauba.
 
I wish there was a product that would give us long lasting protection, high reflectivity of polymers and that glow and depth of shine of good carnauba all in one step. Truth is going with just one of the mentioned products we have to compromise.

Jngrbrdman is right - to have the best of both worlds we have to top Klasse with carnauba.

I don't think that you have to put many layers of SG before carnauba, one may be enough and it's still well worth it.



This is a pic of P21S on top of 3 month old SG:
 

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F1Crazy said:
I wish there was a product that would give us long lasting protection, high reflectivity of polymers and that glow and depth of shine of good carnauba all in one step
Click to expand...



Gee, that sounds like the question that Blackfire chemists must have been asking themselves. :) Even if Blackfire doesn't last as long as Klasse does, it is still going to last longer than any carnuba you'll find on the market. It has the glow of carnuba and the protection of a polymer. Check out the Projects page on my Autopia Homepage (the link is in my sig) for pics of what Blackfire looks like all by itself. Carnuba on top of it makes it look even better but that shine on the back of my Accord is all Blackfire. I can't wait to get my hands on the Platinum samples from Tim. If it looks anything like Blackfire then I'll be very happy.



If you are looking for the protection of a polymer and the glow of a carnuba then you really can't go wrong with Blackfire. It does exactly that. It lasts much longer than carnuba too. Like F1Crazy said, you have to make compromises if you expect to get everything you want.
 
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